Air in my Fuel System

BadMoose · **Posted:** Thu May 08, 2008 10:31 am

I am bleeding off air from my fuel system every 2 to 3 days, but since there is no CEL they can't figure out what’s wrong.

Has to be something with the fuel head, how do I convince them it needs to be replaced?

fastRob · **Posted:** Thu May 08, 2008 10:49 am

BadMoose wrote:

My dealer SUCKS. I am bleeding off air from my fuel system every 2 to 3 days, but since there is no CEL they can't figure out what’s wrong.

Has to be something with the fuel head, how do I convince them it needs to be replaced?

Persistance, calls to people up high, talks with the stealership management, just do not give up.
I would look for a leak, trace the lines, connections and fittings. This site has a huge body of info on the fuel head.
I put in a fuel lift pump. Try here: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... aa95993cf5

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu May 08, 2008 10:56 am

Many have installed a lift pump from a Dodge diesel pickup for this problem. I've had air in the fuel and it's symptoms since the very first mile I drove my new crd in 06. I get the "can not duplicate" answer when I take it in.

Our CRD's already have a fuse, relay and most of the wiring for a "prime pump" :shock:

Do you suppose that maybe Chrysler engineers knew it really should have one but the bean counters over ruled the engineers :?:

There was even a NTHSC investigation abut the filter heads melting and it was swept under the rug :roll:

They were/are most likely getting hot because of the air.

Chrysler's answer to the plastic torque converters failing was to detune the engine :!:

What do you think their solution to air in the filter head would be, I don't want to know :oops:

I know a responsable company should stand behind their product but they're taking the three monkey position. "See no evil, hear no evil and do no evil" and in our case it's more like ignore the problem and maybe it will go away :evil:

The previous "big three" are failing and this is another reason why :!:

soap box off :lol:

EDIT: On another board a tech from the UK mentioned a upcoming service letter for this. But that's in the UK, not here.

Joe

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu May 08, 2008 2:00 pm

They replaced mine - because I had diesel leaking out fo the heater plug -
If they can't see it - I don't think they have any way to test it.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Thu May 08, 2008 4:25 pm

....how to make your's leak fuel.
1) Bleed out all of the air to the last bubble.
2) Push as hard on the primer pump as you can with out tearing the filter head off the firewall or breaking it and hold it down just as hard for at least a couple minuets :twisted:

3) Un-snap the heater plug and you will see fuel that has leaked out

FYI: I did this on two local CRDs and the dealer replaced there's as well.

IF you install the lift pump, check in a couple days and you will find fuel leaking.
Then, when you go to the dealer, pull the red 10A fuse and put it in your pocket until you get your CRD back.
Drive off a few blocks and reinstall the fuse.

Leaks are one item the dealer can fix without a CEL or CODE.

Steve

widowmaker · **Posted:** Thu May 08, 2008 8:23 pm

I had this problem with the last filter change. When I couldnt take it anymore, I decided to change to a new filter and found that the center gasket on the filter was missing. I replaced the with the new filter making sure not to drop the center gasket and all is well again.

BadMoose · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2008 7:30 am

Nothing leaking other than the inside of the plugs are full of fuel.
It’s just sucking in air someplace. I did a sprint to work this morning my normal 30 minuet commute in 15 minuets door to door, this usually makes it really suck in the air so I will see if it’s full of air tonight.

Anyone here do the switch to the CAT filter?

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2008 7:40 am

Switching to the CAT filter will only confuse the issue at this point. Nothing wrong with the CAT conversion itself, but it has to be done right. At least a few people have had more air problems after doing the switch. The factory filter has a dip tube down the center to help keep the outlet path submerged. The CAT does not. Also, the dealer will flip out if they see the CAT filter on there.

fastRob · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2008 7:41 am

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=29149

JD has some interesting ideas.

On the CRD Tech there are posts of other's replacements.

While mine is under warranty, the dealer will replace. The lift pump makes it sooo much easier for me.
Try it you will like it

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2008 8:02 am

In the past it has been suggested that the fuel lines and connections in our KJ's were designed for a pressurized system and not a vacuum system like our CRD's have. Some owners in the distant past had fuel lines replaced for the sucking air problem :lol:

After dropping my fuel tank and seeing the plastic quick disconnect fittings first hand I agree 100% they are designed for a pressurized system and will leak under a vacuum

Yes the filter heads are a cheaply built item and prone to fail but I really think they are just a "victim" of a vacuum system full of air. I've had a lift pump for about 9 months before putting on a in tank pump and have no signs of a leaking filter head. Yes pushing the prime pump in a manner that is specifically listed as to cause damage will cause it to leak :oops:

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2008 9:44 pm

I was taught many years ago controlling a vacuum leak is a difficult as controlling a 1000 PSI pressure leak.
Putting the filter head under 4 PSI to 10 PSI to find the leak and have it replaced under warranty instead of being stranded is just common sense.
No engineer in his or her right mind who is over seen by the army of bean counters would design a hand primer that would damage the filter head and cause a leak, even if the person using it pushed it very hard.
Conclusion, if your filter head leaks fuel after using the primer pump, IT IS JUNK :!:

Installing a lift pump that produces 6 PSI to 9 PSI and keeps your fuel lines and filter head under a low pressure is a great way to extend the life of the entire fuel system.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 10:50 am

If someone is interested in a CAT and adapter I would likely part with mine which will likely never be installed. PM me if interested.

BadMoose · **Posted:** Thu May 15, 2008 1:33 pm

Well the dealer still has my CRD. I took it in Monday night.

First they replaced the driveshaft universals because they were froze to take care of the "vibration" and tell me it should be good to go.
I have never had to replace universals in any of my vehicles before 100k miles, this has just over 45k and only off roading its sees is an occasional dirt road.

I say OK maybe but what about the air in the fuel head at the filter and the wet electrical plugs?
They said there was no air in the lines and didn’t see any leaks, I said lets go take a look.

I pull out the plug and I get "OH THAT ?!?" we will have to order that, they call me today and tell me there is only ONE left in the warehouse and if they are lucky they will have it Friday morning.

Come on guys. Where else would you look for air in the fuel line?

When this is off warrantee its #$^$ thing is gone.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu May 15, 2008 1:47 pm

Wrong answer
When it's off Warranty - you can put in the good fixes that last.
Lift pump, Woods greasable U joint, Moog greasable ball joints.

BadMoose · **Posted:** Thu May 15, 2008 2:05 pm

I did think of that just wish I felt like I could just jump in it and go with no worrys.
I have never had the warm fuzzy with this vehicle about the time I start to feel comfortable with it something else goes wrong.

Reminds me of the old Harleys.

Jeep Liberty CRD made from plastic and tin, drive it out and tow it in.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu May 15, 2008 5:42 pm

The real key -is that the dealer didn't know where or how to look for the problem.

so either you need to be willing to work on it yourself - (and LOST is the best resource I've seen)

or you need to find a real Diesel mechanic - someone who services Cummins or Sprinter vans (and tell them about LOST)

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Thu May 15, 2008 6:33 pm

Yah Real Diesel Mechanic, not a parts swapper.

BadMoose · **Posted:** Sat May 17, 2008 9:45 pm

Picked up the CRD last night and have put well over 200 miles on it last night and today. So far so good. MPG seems to have improved also.
Have to admit it starts 90% better than it was starting. Crank over a little and rattles to life. Before it was crank and crank and crank before it would start then it ran rough till it was warmed up.
The filter/fuel head looks different to me but can’t figure out what’s different about it. I don't remember the hoses connecting like that.
Here is a picture.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat May 17, 2008 9:51 pm

Looks good, now go for the lift pump and that little bugger will last a long time.
Don't go for the lift pump, you know what you are in for, pump, bleed, pump, bleed, .......................................................................................................................................................................................................................
............................ :!:

Steve

BadMoose · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 6:27 pm

Haven't had a chance to get on to up date.

The CRD took a dump on the 19th the day after I got it back and its been at the dealers since. Should be getting it back Friday 5/30.

They have replaced the entire fuel system from the tank to the injectors.

If still not fixed I'm going to call my lawyer see where to go from here.

I was told if I alter anything from stock the warranty will be null and void.

Air in my Fuel System

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