Wet air filter

hatchetman · **Posted:** Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:25 am

Does the snorkel have a part # on it? I pulled the tube from the air/filter box-grill on my 05 CRD and it has a part # on it. Maybe we could order the snorkel? :evil:

Ripster · **Posted:** Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:24 pm

You will have to change the bottom, the snorkel has a square opening and ours is round, just enough
of a change to require some adapting.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Snorkel Rain Test Update -

Today I drove in a steady rain, same trip in the CRD with the old airbox that produced 1/4" of water in the bottom. With the snorkel box, no water and its still CLEAN. And I don't even have the water dam on yet.

PS - that airbox on Ebay has something different on the bottom that mine does not have - that little round pipe on the bottom right. Mine has nothing but the snorkel on the bottom half. Or is it my eyes fooling me?

onthehunt · **Posted:** Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:11 pm

Looks like a crankcase vent hose plug in. Too bad ours doesn't look that!!!

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Ah, that's it. The 02's had another small box that mounted directly to the top of the intake manifold and there are 2 crankcase hoses attached to each side of it. I forgot the later V6 Liberty's eliminated that extra airbox resonator. Filter airbox doesn't need one on the 02's.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:40 pm

It would be nice if someone could come up with a parts list.

bagger · **Posted:** Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:58 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

Yea, Oldnavy, I was surprised too. That circular intake tube on the CRD looks bigger than 3.25 inches. I have read that a diesel turbocharged engine will on average take the same air intake as twice the displacement naturally aspirated engine. If that is true, then our little 2.8L engine sucks air like a 5.7 Hemi gasser. What size air filter does the Hemi Ram have? If anyone has one, can you find the air flow data on the filter? On the Jeep, its stamped right on the edge of the filter itself.

I had a buddy of mine look at the air filter on his Hemi. Here's the data he sent me.

dust cap.225G Max.air flow 14.16 m3/min eff.98% pressure loss @ max. flow 0.035 bar

Here's the CRD air filter data

Dust capacity - 130 G(rams)
Max air flow - 8.85 cubic meters per minute
Efficiency - 98%
Pressure loss @ Max flow - 0.035 bar

oldnavy · **Posted:** Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:23 am

Having seen the 5.7L Hemi filter/airbox many times it just didn't look to be almost twice the size of the CRD, but but I guess 1" each way and a little longer pleats would make the difference and not be that noticable.

I just may have to go by the dealer tomorrow and check out the difference, maybe if it's same size we could switch filters??? Doubt that though.

Humm my OEM filter for my Dodge Magnum 2.7 V6 (195hp redline is 6500 rpm)

Dust 90G
Air Flow 4,000L/Min (4 cubic meters)
98% EFF
Pressure loss @ Max Flow 0.08 BAR

Maybe we need an engineer to tell us why (opinion) this difference in airflows??? :wink:

I supect that at upper RPM's that NA gasser is pulling more air, just think about that a second. My 2.7L V6 really starts to pull from 3,000 to 5500 RPM and it will easy pull 65000 rpm where we would seldom see anything above 3,500 rpm and maybe an ocassional 4000 rpm, the 2.7L is past 3000 rpm with about any on-ramp or passing manuver. I bet I never have a day go by when driving the 2.7L that it does not see 4000 plus on the tach.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:49 pm

retmil46 wrote:

As far as the 20 inches of water criteria, that's when you're supposed to change out the air filter to prevent problems with restricted airflow.

As far as changing out the air filter at every oil change, there may be a more cost effective method. There are air filter restriction indicators available, Filterminder probably the most prevalent. These can be easily mounted on the air intake, between the air filter and the turbo. The Filterminder version will lock at the highest reading it sees, so you can pop the hood and check it when the vehicle is shut down. If it never budges off the zero mark, then you're probably good to go continuing to use the same air filter until the recommended change interval. For those still running a stock air intake and are experiencing wet filter problems, it would also be a quick and dirty indication of just how much restriction a wet filter does cause. These are the same indicators they put on Dodge Cummins pickups and the big rigs.

Adding a constriction gauge purchased from a local truck part supplier. A Navistar part with markings up to 25 inches. Remote mounted part with plumbing to connect came to $13.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Today I added the plastic water dam to the snorkel airbox mod. The plastic air dam is mounted to the metal rail that spans the entire engine bay and which has the hood lock attached to it. The part I ordered was for a 2002 Jeep Liberty V6 4X4, cost $12.32 with tax.

It snaps into place and has a hole for a rivet on the OEM install. I used a 7/16" bolt with lock washer. It fits perfectly. As for part numbers, I didn't have any, I just called a local jeep parts dealer and ordered it. I know you can do the same for the lower airbox, because I had to order a new airbox top some time back for the CRD when a slight case of overtightening the flex hose collapsed the air connector on the airbox top. I must conclude from this experience that the airbox airoutlet is weaker than a pickle jar lid, because I had no trouble destroying that and pickle jar lids still defy me. I could investigate this phenomena in depth, but I digress... The top cost $42 without the sensors, which I removed from the old airtop.

So, if one wishes to do a fairly easy mod, you can call your jeep dealer and order an 02 Jeep Liberty 4X4 airbox bottom, and a water dam, they can look up the part numbers. It probably costs more than we could wish for, but it looks like RFCRD's mod works as well and is far less expensive. I had the old 3.7 V6 airbox so it was a $12 mod for me.

It was last Sunday when I added this mod. Today, 7 days later the lower airbox bottom is clean, dry and the air filter itself is clean. I could not run for a week on a new filter with the stock CRD airbox setup without it turning slightly black with roadgrime, and the usual debris and leaves in the bottom.

So I'll clean out the turbo hoses next and see how long it takes to oil coat them.

Best wishes

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:55 pm

Probably need the snorkle too, isn't it a seperate piece?

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

Probably need the snorkle too, isn't it a seperate piece?

Yes. It is a snap-in fit to the lower airbox.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:13 am

retmil46 wrote:

As far as the 20 inches of water criteria, that's when you're supposed to change out the air filter to prevent problems with restricted airflow.

VT, my feeling is the same as yours, 20" H2O is probably too low a differential to cause problems.

However, with a wet or clogged air filter, the turbo seals may be seeing differentials well above this point under certain conditions, such as hard acceleration as you mentioned. And it may be that oil is not being pulled past the seals every time this happens.

Did the install of the constriction gauge. Tested the system by lightly sucking on the vaccume line to the gauge. Shockingly easy to bottom out the gauge (25 inches of water) with even a light toke on the hose. Less effort than sucking a water beverage through a soda straw. That being the case, it won't take much to call a filter clogged at 20 inches.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

If you still have an old air filter, can you spray it with a mist of water, similar to what a good rain does, install it then measure with the gauge to see what happens with the engine running in your driveway for a couple of minutes? If what we think is occuring is true, it should show up on the gauge pretty fast. It would be great to have some data to use.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:12 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

If you still have an old air filter, can you spray it with a mist of water, similar to what a good rain does, install it then measure with the gauge to see what happens with the engine running in your driveway for a couple of minutes? If what we think is occuring is true, it should show up on the gauge pretty fast. It would be great to have some data to use.

Was thinking the same thing. Just waiting for my replacement True-flow foam filter to arrive. Then I can trash and experiment with the paper filter all I want, even have the original filter to also trash. Figure I would mist both, then soak both and see what happens.

I would have loved to have this constriction gauge already installed before I hacked the factory intake apart to put some real numbers to the problem. Adding this gauge is a stupid cheap mod. For $15, almost foolish not to have this on a diesel.

Tom_with_a_Dream · **Posted:** Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:06 pm

Quote:

So, if one wishes to do a fairly easy mod, you can call your jeep dealer and order an 02 Jeep Liberty 4X4 airbox bottom, and a water dam, they can look up the part numbers.

RFCRD -

Are you saying that an '03-/05 air cleaner box will not be a direct fit? I'd love to install a custom cyclone separator in my CRD but I suspect my future holds an air box swap with the Belly Hiccy Snorkle. Reality is what it is...

And what is a constriction gauge? When LoTek gets enough orders for the triple pillar-pod and they send me mine, I will need a third gauge to install. One that monitors the air filter condition seems to go hand-in-glove with my Boost. Is that something that would fit into a a2-1/16 gauge cutout?

Thanks.

DragonDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:31 pm

Tom_with_a_Dream wrote:

And what is a constriction gauge? When LoTek gets enough orders for the triple pillar-pod and they send me mine, I will need a third gauge to install. One that monitors the air filter condition seems to go hand-in-glove with my Boost. Is that something that would fit into a a2-1/16 gauge cutout?

Thanks.

Constriction gauge is usually an "underhood" mod. It is a small cylinder with a diaphram in it that reads the drop in pressure caused by the vacuum in the intake line to the turbo. It is a great way to tell if you are really getting air to your turbo or having it cavitate itself to pieces by sucking oil through the seals. I am glad some one else thought of putting it on a CRD because I never would have. Even with a factory one on the 3500 Ram, I just never thought of it...

Tom_with_a_Dream · **Posted:** Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:37 pm

How about an electric d/p gauge that could be linked to an in-cabin light for vacuum conditions? Might not be able to monitor the pressure but at least know to lift when the light comes in (when driving in the morning mist, it seems...)

oldnavy · **Posted:** Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:51 pm

Here is a Filter Minder that is a 61mm gage and that is about 2.5 inches if I'm not mistaken that is electronic remote. I ordered a remote mount kit for ours because there is not enough room for mounting direct to lid and I'll remote it under the hood. Only gage the wife ever looks at is fuel gage and then only when the chime sounds. :roll:

DragonDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:59 pm

OldNavy - that is an excellent little link! Thanks!

Wet air filter

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