NEW TRANNY TSB ISSUED 7/14

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:55 am

alljeep wrote:

They did settle once and for all that because I had the original transmission oil cooler return filter TSB done, they would not do the latest one that replaces both the oil cooler return filter AND the main sump filter, even though it says to never replace just one. So, I've exhausted all resources and have been as proactive as I can with the Jeep - let's hope it works. Maybe the shudder will finally be gone.

The only reason they did the reflash TSB was due to actually finding the 53mph shudder I have, even though it states to do it with no symptoms required. It was documented that they found it(shudder) in the test drive, and this is their attempt at a fix - so I was told - and they could not reproduce the shudder again. Which means nothing to the rest of us as it's intermittent anyway - so, it is what it is.

Anyone trying to get this done has to remember, the vehicle has to be in for some other kind of service first - as that is the only requirement to getting it done - AND BRING A COPY OF IT FOR THEM, AND ONE FOR YOU, TO ARGUE OVER. For me, being in for service was investigating the 53mph shudder.

I think this is a corporate problem. Until very recently, the service guys only see TSBs due to symptoms and problems - as it should be. Now, it appears to be kind of an undeclared recall - but DC has not told the service guys, so they operate under the old, but correct, theory that all TSBs are in existence to solve active symptoms - not "enhance performance" as this one states. It is interesting to note, the reflashes from a few months ago specifically state "improved durability" and now that wording is removed and replaced with "improved" or "enhanced" performance.

I had the service manager check about have to replace both my filters and D/C said that if I wanted it done then they would pay for the replacement. I opted not to because it was done at 1700 miles and the tranny was never shifted into reverse as soon as starting but only after as much as a minute or to after starting. There was no metal in the fluid or pan when the TSB was done so I figure no damage was done. I probably will have tranny service again next spring and have both filters replaced.

alljeep · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:41 pm

I just got the Jeep back. I could not wait until after work, so I took a long lunch and drove it back to work. My observations after only 20 miles of freeway and in town driving:

1. Shifting feels smoother. 1-2 shift feels smoother, not sure if I like it, but it feels smoother.

2. My shift points at certain speeds remained the same since the reflash from 3-4 months ago(which did change the original factory shift points).

3. I could not induce the shudder no matter how hard I tried. Not at 53mph, and not at or near 62mph. There is not enough testing here to make a conclusion, but I could almost always get the 53mph one.

I will continue to test, but I can for certain say it has not made anything worse.

MoLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:26 pm

alljeep wrote:

3. I could not induce the shudder no matter how hard I tried. Not at 53mph, and not at or near 62mph. There is not enough testing here to make a conclusion, but I could almost always get the 53mph one.

I will continue to test, but I can for certain say it has not made anything worse.

Heck... if this is true, I will be calling my dealer again to take it back. I had it in yesterday for P0770 and P0777 (they replaced a solenoid in the transmission). The slight shudder in the tranny has been the only problem I have really experienced with it other than the shifting problem that occurred when I got the codes above.

Interesting point for those of you who have had tranny issues, though... Did you ever have an instance where the torque converter would not lock in? That is what happened to mine when I blew the 770 & 777 codes. Felt like when the clutch is slipping on a manual tranny and I had to rev it up quite a bit (2200 rpms) before it would slowly start rolling forward. I could shut it off and reboot the computer and no problem....

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:50 pm

Sounds a little like "limp" mode.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

alljeep wrote:

I just got the Jeep back. I could not wait until after work, so I took a long lunch and drove it back to work. My observations after only 20 miles of freeway and in town driving:

1. Shifting feels smoother. 1-2 shift feels smoother, not sure if I like it, but it feels smoother.

2. My shift points at certain speeds remained the same since the reflash from 3-4 months ago(which did change the original factory shift points).

3. I could not induce the shudder no matter how hard I tried. Not at 53mph, and not at or near 62mph. There is not enough testing here to make a conclusion, but I could almost always get the 53mph one.

I will continue to test, but I can for certain say it has not made anything worse.

Let us know how it does over time. I had the same smooth shifting and disappearance of the tranny shudder with the last TCM flash. It lasted about 3 days (as best I can remember) and came back with a vengance. No idea why it seemed fixed and then returned. Hope it works out for you.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:36 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

alljeep wrote:

I just got the Jeep back. I could not wait until after work, so I took a long lunch and drove it back to work. My observations after only 20 miles of freeway and in town driving:

1. Shifting feels smoother. 1-2 shift feels smoother, not sure if I like it, but it feels smoother.

2. My shift points at certain speeds remained the same since the reflash from 3-4 months ago(which did change the original factory shift points).

3. I could not induce the shudder no matter how hard I tried. Not at 53mph, and not at or near 62mph. There is not enough testing here to make a conclusion, but I could almost always get the 53mph one.

I will continue to test, but I can for certain say it has not made anything worse.

Let us know how it does over time. I had the same smooth shifting and disappearance of the tranny shudder with the last TCM flash. It lasted about 3 days (as best I can remember) and came back with a vengance. No idea why it seemed fixed and then returned. Hope it works out for you.

Ranger1.

Modern electronic transmissions are "adaptive" and they learn your style as you drive. Sometimes with bad results. VW's have a method where the driver can restore the defaults, like a reset, when that happens very quickly.

alljeep · **Posted:** Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:28 am

RFCRD wrote:

Ripster wrote:

Next Friday 28th 1pm, I am hoping someone will do it before me, but I will post
here once I have it done.

Most interested in what it does with the 35mph light acceleration funky lock-up. Despite the problems, have yet to experience the infamous tranny shudder. Only see an occasional (rare) bucking or stumbling after hard acceleration. Lately mine has been running too well and delivering a solid 26mpg, hate to mess with a good thing.

Your bucking or stumbling after a hard acceleration is what I call the shudder. Although, it can be after moderate acceleration for me as well.

Here is the 100 mile update:

The shifting is definitely smoother from 1 to 2, and 2 to 3 - after that it's hard to tell as I already had the reflash from earlier this year. I do not get any funky lock-up at 35mph under light acceleration - and I used to - but randomly, not all the time - so this will be watched as well.

I still can not get the shudder to induce. Even so, I can almost always force the precursor 'fluttering' that seems to be right before the shudder but not anymore. As mentioned above, the adaptive learning may set me right back to where I was before, but we shall see. I'm driving it as I always have so I'm cautiously optimistic for now about the results.

I smoked a Toyota Tundra V8 today from a stop light (strictly to test this TSB of course :wink:

) and the guy was quite upset - he was trying his all, but just couldn't hold up with me. Oh yeah, no shudder when I let off at about 62-63mph as would normally happen.

Only crappy thing about this whole experience is I finally learned first hand why nut-zerts suck. Putting the transmission skid back on and a bolt cross threaded and broke off the top of the nut-zert. So now I have a bolt dangling, held in by the upper half of the nut-zert. I'll be dremmeling that bolt off, then drilling through the upper part of the cross member to put a real bolt and nut all the way through. Just when you think your all done, there's always another project...

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:17 am

alljeep wrote:

Only crappy thing about this whole experience is I finally learned first hand why nut-zerts suck. Putting the transmission skid back on and a bolt cross threaded and broke off the top of the nut-zert. So now I have a bolt dangling, held in by the upper half of the nut-zert. I'll be dremmeling that bolt off, then drilling through the upper part of the cross member to put a real bolt and nut all the way through. Just when you think your all done, there's always another project...

You turkey, you cross threaded the bolt what do you expect?

I demand 40 lashes with a wet noodle for this dolt. :lol:

Same would have happened if you did it with a nut and bolt. :roll:

Thank God for Dremmel tool for these situations, been there done that with a bolt. :wink:

alljeep · **Posted:** Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:23 am

oldnavy wrote:

alljeep wrote:

Only crappy thing about this whole experience is I finally learned first hand why nut-zerts suck. Putting the transmission skid back on and a bolt cross threaded and broke off the top of the nut-zert. So now I have a bolt dangling, held in by the upper half of the nut-zert. I'll be dremmeling that bolt off, then drilling through the upper part of the cross member to put a real bolt and nut all the way through. Just when you think your all done, there's always another project...

You turkey, you cross threaded the bolt what do you expect?

I demand 40 lashes with a wet noodle for this dolt. :lol:

Same would have happened if you did it with a nut and bolt. :roll:

Thank God for Dremmel tool for these situations, been there done that with a bolt. :wink:

I tried, and tried, and tried to get it to go in normal but it was always under a bind. I knew it was going to happen, but I just put my logic blinders on and "pop" it was all over :lol:

wet noodle on......

Ripster · **Posted:** Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:25 am

On Friday I will try to duplicate your results with the flash. On mine the 1-2 and 2-3 are the
only items left to get this unit to shifting correctly all the time. If this fixes those shifts, between
the flash and the TransGo Kit, maybe it will be up to par.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:30 am

alljeep wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

alljeep wrote:

Only crappy thing about this whole experience is I finally learned first hand why nut-zerts suck. Putting the transmission skid back on and a bolt cross threaded and broke off the top of the nut-zert. So now I have a bolt dangling, held in by the upper half of the nut-zert. I'll be dremmeling that bolt off, then drilling through the upper part of the cross member to put a real bolt and nut all the way through. Just when you think your all done, there's always another project...

You turkey, you cross threaded the bolt what do you expect?

I demand 40 lashes with a wet noodle for this dolt. :lol:

Same would have happened if you did it with a nut and bolt. :roll:

Thank God for Dremmel tool for these situations, been there done that with a bolt. :wink:

I tried, and tried, and tried to get it to go in normal but it was always under a bind. I knew it was going to happen, but I just put my logic blinders on and "pop" it was all over :lol:

wet noodle on......

To prevent binding that caused cross threading don't tighten the other bolts also use a floor jack for 3rd arm to help hold it up and making it easier to aliegn up holes.

Sometimes stinky poo happens when we get in a hurry or distracted. :wink:

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

I smoked a Toyota Tundra V8 today from a stop light (strictly to test this TSB of course Wink

onthehunt · **Posted:** Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:28 pm

Got this tsb done on monday. Made a nice difference in shifts. The most improved was overdrive. It no longer revs when going into 5th lockup. Just a nice clean lock. The 35 mph shift I cannot tell yet because it only does it going downhill and my egr went belly-up today before I had a chance to test it. I really thought I was going to make it with the stock egr. Now that I think about it I'm sorta glad that it died. Now I can start over with a new one with usld already in the system. Jeep had 16,100 miles. Service manager sheepishly told me they "kinda" had problems with the egr's in these!! I told him "kinda" was an understatement. He agreed. Was also told that oil in the cac hoses was "normal" in a turbo diesel. I told him it was never normal where I worked. He disagreed. Oh well, I've almost got the problems worked out and I still love my crd and would buy another if I could afford it.

bagger · **Posted:** Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:45 pm

oldnavy wrote:

alljeep wrote:

Only crappy thing about this whole experience is I finally learned first hand why nut-zerts suck. Putting the transmission skid back on and a bolt cross threaded and broke off the top of the nut-zert. So now I have a bolt dangling, held in by the upper half of the nut-zert. I'll be dremmeling that bolt off, then drilling through the upper part of the cross member to put a real bolt and nut all the way through. Just when you think your all done, there's always another project...

You turkey, you cross threaded the bolt what do you expect?

I demand 40 lashes with a wet noodle for this dolt. :lol:

Same would have happened if you did it with a nut and bolt. :roll:

Thank God for Dremmel tool for these situations, been there done that with a bolt. :wink:

Keel haul 'em I say. That should set him on a straight and true course. What ye say Cap'n?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:54 pm

bagger wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

alljeep wrote:

Only crappy thing about this whole experience is I finally learned first hand why nut-zerts suck. Putting the transmission skid back on and a bolt cross threaded and broke off the top of the nut-zert. So now I have a bolt dangling, held in by the upper half of the nut-zert. I'll be dremmeling that bolt off, then drilling through the upper part of the cross member to put a real bolt and nut all the way through. Just when you think your all done, there's always another project...

You turkey, you cross threaded the bolt what do you expect?

I demand 40 lashes with a wet noodle for this dolt. :lol:

Same would have happened if you did it with a nut and bolt. :roll:

Thank God for Dremmel tool for these situations, been there done that with a bolt. :wink:

Keel haul 'em I say. That should set him on a straight and true course. What ye say Cap'n?

No, I think he should be made to take a long walk on a short pier. :wink:

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:35 pm

If this TSB will get the tranny to lock the torque converter sooner, I will be wanting it. I seem to recall others talking about getting better mileage after some of the previous trans flashes. I'm not imagining that am I? I think my somewhat low mileage would get better if the converter would lock sooner and stay locked longer. On the other hand, mileage is my only complaint, and my CRD has never been touched by a dealer. If it ain't broke, don't fix it right?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:40 pm

Goglio704 wrote:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it right?

There is a lot to said about that notion.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

Goglio704 wrote:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it right?

The main reason I bought my CRD at the dealer I chose was because they are also a Dodge truck dealer and sell many diesels. I asked to meet one of the diesel tech before I bought the car and they were happy to have me talk with him.

I generally agree with the quote, but the last time I had maint service (25k miles) the tech said I should get the tranny flash done (don't remember the number, but it was the one previous) even though I did not have shudder. He said it would improve my mpg (it did slightly) and make tranny smoother. I have to say he was correct on both counts and getting the work done was the right thing to do, even if it wasn't broke. I have not been back to talk with him (I ignore the service writers) and don't know yet about the newest tsb. In fact, since I had the previous flash done I don't know if it is necessary.

Does anyone know if there is something "different" in the new tsb that is not covered by the previous one?

richardkf · **Joined:** Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:15 pm **Posts:** 167

vtdog wrote:

Goglio704 wrote:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it right?

The main reason I bought my CRD at the dealer I chose was because they are also a Dodge truck dealer and sell many diesels. I asked to meet one of the diesel tech before I bought the car and they were happy to have me talk with him.

I generally agree with the quote, but the last time I had maint service (25k miles) the tech said I should get the tranny flash done (don't remember the number, but it was the one previous) even though I did not have shudder. He said it would improve my mpg (it did slightly) and make tranny smoother. I have to say he was correct on both counts and getting the work done was the right thing to do, even if it wasn't broke. I have not been back to talk with him (I ignore the service writers) and don't know yet about the newest tsb. In fact, since I had the previous flash done I don't know if it is necessary.

Does anyone know if there is something "different" in the new tsb that is not covered by the previous one?

I agree, some of these TSB's are directly aimed at the common problems that many CRD owners are experiencing with respect to TC and Transmission failure. What a headache, especially if you're on a long road trip far away from home. I was only barely experiencing the shudder on my transmission when I had the flash TSB and the filter TSB's done. Big improvements in the whole feel of the transmission now. I am definetly going to get the newest flash done when I am in for the next oil change. It can't hurt.

Waiting to see what happens is a gamble. These transmissions are problematic and Chrysler thinks they can solve a lot of the issues through software - who knows - maybe they can - I'd love to sail on up to 200 or 250K on my CRD with the original transmission and TC if I can do it.

Get the work done, if your dealer pushes back on it - lie and say you are experiencing one or more of the symptoms that the TSB defines.

alljeep · **Posted:** Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:33 am

vtdog wrote:

Does anyone know if there is something "different" in the new tsb that is not covered by the previous one?

Without talking with the programming team located somewhere in a dark cubicle in DC, we won't know the extent for quite some time. I know the TSB specifically added "Throttle Valve Shut Down Operation" to the list of enhanced performance items. They removed the phrase "improved durability" for all the items listed but we know that is what it is for from the TSBs it replaces - 18-008-06 and 18-008-09 and states to remove them from their files as this is a complete revision. Looks like they want the words "improves durability" removed from their records.

From my 3 days testing it right now I can say the shifting is smoother. My shudder has not returned now and 3 days is a record for that.

NEW TRANNY TSB ISSUED 7/14

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