Tranny/TC....NHTSA Report

cerich · **Posted:** Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:11 am

CREDIT TO REGGIE

Discussing the TC issues

"Report it to the NHTSA as a safety defect. Say something like almost L.O.S.T. control while driving. I figure if everyone does this they will be forced to recall it. Same goes for ball joints."

When the TC dies, so does the vehicle, when it happens it won't move leaving us stuck in traffic very suddenly when the traffic is moving.

Please everybody who has had the TC crap out or gone into limp mode due to it or even the EGR, write a complaint to the NTSB.

It could save a life
It could force DC to fix this stuff for good and free.

Make sure you point out that there are only ~11,000 CRD's made, we need to make it statistically significant.

DragonDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:23 am

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

Lets get a link on here to the site for the NHTSA. This is the only one I could find as I don't have the time to search it out.

My complaint will be a little less emotional than below, but this is what my TC has really done to me:

My TC killed my engine at a red light. It went into full lock and into gear while I had my foot on the brake at a dead stop. That is what it did - died!

My TC has also left my vehicle in Farmington, NM for 3 weeks now waiting on parts. I live in Houston, TX!!! Guess who is shelling out for travel and (what DCX calls) "incidentals" - ME!

All of the above being true - I STILL LOVE MY CRD! I just wish it came with a 6speed manual tranny. :twisted:

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:45 am

Bumped to "Announcement"

richardkf · **Joined:** Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:15 pm **Posts:** 167

Everyone who has had a TC/Trans failure and who currently has the transmission shudder should write about it. It will make a bigger impact if those who had the failures say that it was first preceeded by a large noticable shudder that would make the whole car drive sluggishly until 60mph. It would stand to reason that those who have not had failures, but have the shudder, are headed for failures. We have to give the whole story. And yes, the safety issue (as stated above) should be included with every complaint.

Had your kids in the car? mention it.
Stuck in a busy intersection and was dangerous to get out of the car and cross over with your kids/family? mention it.
Merging on to or off a highway/interstate?
Hundreds of miles from home and displaced and no loaner car provided?
(what a piece of crap warranty, by the way. First car i ever owned that doesnt give loaners for warranty repairs)

Make the dangerous conditions believable (especially those of you with kids in the upper mid-west who have freezing cold winters and could end up broken down at night in the cold waiting for someone or a tow truck in the dark freezing cold.

There is no iminent danger of your transmission failing, but there are dangerous situations that it can lead to.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:03 pm

Is there any precedent for a recall for a condition like this? Not trying to rain on anybody's parade, but recalls are normally limited to safety items which get people hurt in and of themselves aren't they? Balljoints are a good example. Electronic throttle runaway would be another. If this tranny had a defect which caused it to suddenly shift into reverse, I think a safety recall would be the right way to go. I agree, the trans problems could get somebody hurt. I just think it would be plowing new ground to get a recall for this. I realize this is born out of frustration, which I understand, I just think it might be barking up the wrong tree. Just my .02. If it gets results, go with it. I've been wrong before. Some would say often. :lol:

cerich · **Posted:** Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:45 am

Goglio704 wrote:

Is there any precedent for a recall for a condition like this? Not trying to rain on anybody's parade, but recalls are normally limited to safety items which get people hurt in and of themselves aren't they? Balljoints are a good example. Electronic throttle runaway would be another. If this tranny had a defect which caused it to suddenly shift into reverse, I think a safety recall would be the right way to go. I agree, the trans problems could get somebody hurt. I just think it would be plowing new ground to get a recall for this. I realize this is born out of frustration, which I understand, I just think it might be barking up the wrong tree. Just my .02. If it gets results, go with it. I've been wrong before. Some would say often. :lol:

When the TC goes south you lose the ability to control the vehicle. It stops where it sits if you aren't moving. If it happens at speed you could easily end up skidding off the road, flipped, etc. Imagine it happening while making a left hand turn when there is a semi coming. Most of the time(hopefully) it won't happen in a worse case situation, in fact not every explorer with Firestones flipped when they lost a tire(personal experience).

richardkf · **Joined:** Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:15 pm **Posts:** 167

cerich wrote:

Goglio704 wrote:

Is there any precedent for a recall for a condition like this? Not trying to rain on anybody's parade, but recalls are normally limited to safety items which get people hurt in and of themselves aren't they? Balljoints are a good example. Electronic throttle runaway would be another. If this tranny had a defect which caused it to suddenly shift into reverse, I think a safety recall would be the right way to go. I agree, the trans problems could get somebody hurt. I just think it would be plowing new ground to get a recall for this. I realize this is born out of frustration, which I understand, I just think it might be barking up the wrong tree. Just my .02. If it gets results, go with it. I've been wrong before. Some would say often. :lol:

When the TC goes south you lose the ability to control the vehicle. It stops where it sits if you aren't moving. If it happens at speed you could easily end up skidding off the road, flipped, etc. Imagine it happening while making a left hand turn when there is a semi coming. Most of the time(hopefully) it won't happen in a worse case situation, in fact not every explorer with Firestones flipped when they L.O.S.T. a tire(personal experience).

Exactly, safety recalls for mechanical failures that could lead to dangerous situations. Recalls, in general, are for failures that COULD create a dangerous compromise in safety. A lot of recalls that have happened with GM and Toyota in the past year or so have been mechanical recalls, not all of them directly related to safety, more-so indirectly at best. Just as in the case of the Explorer, where a lot of people experienced tire issues, not all of them were disastrous, but rather, only a small number of them. However, it created the potential for danger for everyone riding on those old tires.

That is why we must all explain what cerich explained above when filing complaints - the dangerous potential of what could happen when the truck is moving at high speeds or when trying to navigate busy surface roads where everyone is tyring to beat the light, etc .... Show the danger in terms of safety when filing our complaints .... and hope for the best.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:43 am

I agree, you will have to show a danger, but my point is a recall for this would be unprecedented. This will be regarded as a vehicle disablement rather than a safety issue I'm afraid. I wish you all luck with this, honestly, I would even participate if I had the problem.

richardkf · **Joined:** Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:15 pm **Posts:** 167

Goglio704 wrote:

This will be regarded as a vehicle disablement rather than a safety issue I'm afraid.

Remeber the $10 part in Ford cars of the late 80's and early 90's that was mounted on the radiator and caused the motor to die (at any speed) when it was overheated by the hot radiator? Many people in hilly parts of the country were losing power and rolling backwards down hills, people were stalling on interstates wtih no warning and unable to get theri car started again (until hours later when it cooled down - usually at the repair shot, the mechanics would turn the key and it'd start right up). Ford, of course, denied everything, an investigation from just a couple of hundred of complaints was opened and ultimately the largest recall in U.S. history was mandated. This was a disablement condition.

It's nice that you don't have the problem yourself, you got a good one. But many people do have the problem and, since none of us work for NHTSA, then none of us knows the criteria for prompting them to do an investigation beyond filing our complaints and telling our story. Their investigation, if they open one, will determine that. A disablement can definetly lead to safety issues.

If too few people, or nobody, complain, then the only definite thing here is that no action will be taken and no investigation will occur.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:20 pm

Believe me, I was not posting as a "Well, it sucks to be you." kind of post. It won't surprise me if I have trans problems too at some point. Good luck.

Bonehead · **Posted:** Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:00 pm

Goglio704 wrote:

Believe me, I was not posting as a "Well, it sucks to be you." kind of post. It won't surprise me if I have trans problems too at some point. Good luck.

You will just give it time, 1st TC at 28,000mi and starting to do it again at 33800

.............oh and a EGR at 22000 and now again at 33400 :evil:

.........someone just shoot me now, please :wink:

I do love this jeep , but................ :cry:

cerich · **Posted:** Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:38 pm

Bonehead wrote:

Goglio704 wrote:

Believe me, I was not posting as a "Well, it sucks to be you." kind of post. It won't surprise me if I have trans problems too at some point. Good luck.

You will just give it time, 1st TC at 28,000mi and starting to do it again at 33800

.............oh and a EGR at 22000 and now again at 33400 :evil:

.........someone just shoot me now, please :wink:

I do love this jeep , but................ :cry:

did you do a report?

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:34 am

Last night I read over on edmon's town hall that the problem is the fluid pump in the transmission. Our diesels produce the torque at a low rpm (1800) that's too low to pump sufficient fluid for the clutches to stay locked up and they then slip. A gas car builds up torque at a highter RPM when there's enough fluid volume/pressure. The post also went on to say a new pump has just been released. Hopefully, yeah right, they'll replace our CRD pumps before we have total failure. Time will tell

Reggie · **Posted:** Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:20 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

Last night I read over on edmon's town hall that the problem is the fluid pump in the transmission. Our diesels produce the torque at a low rpm (1800) that's too low to pump sufficient fluid for the clutches to stay locked up and they then slip. A gas car builds up torque at a highter RPM when there's enough fluid volume/pressure. The post also went on to say a new pump has just been released. Hopefully, yeah right, they'll replace our CRD pumps before we have total failure. Time will tell

One of the posters reported that he almost got rear ended when his TC died causing the vehilce to come to a sudden stop. With no brake lights on, the car behind him had no warning. A vehicle disablement issue that causes the vehicle to suddenly stop or lose power IS a safety issue. Be assured that when my TC dies I will be filing a report. Remeber the ball joint recall was caused by a little over 100 complaints. If everyone with failed TC reports it, a recall may be triggered.

cerich · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:06 pm

Folks, there were ONLY 111 reports to the NHTSB that forced the recall on the LBJ. There are at least a dozen LOST members that have had a new TC installed(some more than one), in reading the postings the mechanics at the dealers are telling these guys that there are more and we know waiting for the parts has been a problem.

For safety and long term longevity of our CRD's we NEED to get as many CRD owners that have TC failues to report the problem! I'm sure there have been at least a hundred failures in our CRD's out of only 11,000 made, compare that to 111 reports on 830,000 Liberty's which resulted in a recall.

How many signed the anti shudder petetion? well as we now know the worse the shudder the sooner the TC breaks.

I<3myCRD · **Joined:** Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:16 pm **Posts:** 20

Did my part. report #10166402.

jakemoore · **Posted:** Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:23 am

Posted mine today:

I'm reporting a 2005 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD (4x4 Diesel) transmission pump and torque converter failure with only 6000 miles on the odometer. This failure resulted in loss of shifting at 60 mph on the highway with the vehicle in 5th gear. After coming to a stop at a stop light my family was stranded at a desolate intersection in hot south Texas. There was great potential for a collision and loss of life when vehicle control and accelleration was lost as well as while pushing the vehicle from travel lanes. The repair took 3 weeks leaving me without my new vehicle. I incurred greater than $1500 in expenses in hotel and travel expenses to retrieve my car from a dealership far from home. To add insult to injury, Jeep was and is aware of transmission reliablitly issues and has issued a TSB "silent recall" but did not notify drivers therefore unneccissarily putting my family at risk.

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

When my TC goes out, I will file. It is just bucking right now... but I expect it to die soon enough.

jakemoore · **Posted:** Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:34 pm

Pablo wrote:

When my TC goes out, I will file. It is just bucking right now... but I expect it to die soon enough.

YOU SHOULD FILE RIGHT NOW. A car that bucks on the highway is dangerous. What if it bucks on an offramp or wet roads or in traffic and you flip or spin. Jeez, my Hyundai's tranny is smooth as silk. Makes America look bad.

Jake

KY Liberty · **Joined:** Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:46 pm **Posts:** 1195

You might talk to Wayne at APS Precision. They make a reworked torque converter for the 45RFE and 5-45RFE. They did mine with a 2.53 multiplier instead of the stock 1.93. They set it up for around a 2500 rpm stall. This is for a modified 3.7 gas motor though. I would think they could set one up with a lower stall than stock. I also have the performance shift kit from TransGo that I got from them. It increases the line pressure and helps the TC to lock up better. Later, if you can prove your case, you might be able to give the bill to DC. In any case, I think it might help you with the problems you're having.

Tranny/TC....NHTSA Report

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