TC and Trans Pump Aggrivation

alljeep · **Posted:** Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:17 am

DZL_LOU wrote:

MoLibertyCRD wrote:

Interesting... I am within a couple of days (if I remember correctly), and mine has had valve problems on the tranny. I can't remember all of the parts they replaced, but they didn't include the pump or TC. I haven't had any problems with the EGR, though, although I can really kill the mosquitoes when I get on er'! :lol:

When you step back and look at the repair procedure I participated in, logically the valve body and solenoid pack would be the next suspect.
As a reference point, it sure would help if you could post the part numbers replaced and symptoms that you had

Doesn't it seem odd that they want the technicians to actually tear down and rebuild transmissions in the dealership service departments? It seems to me it would be way more cost effective to swap in new, or rebuilt units, to save time and they can analyze the defect in their own labs/shops at corporate if they want to.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:26 am

alljeep wrote:

DZL_LOU wrote:

MoLibertyCRD wrote:

Interesting... I am within a couple of days (if I remember correctly), and mine has had valve problems on the tranny. I can't remember all of the parts they replaced, but they didn't include the pump or TC. I haven't had any problems with the EGR, though, although I can really kill the mosquitoes when I get on er'! :lol:

When you step back and look at the repair procedure I participated in, logically the valve body and solenoid pack would be the next suspect.
As a reference point, it sure would help if you could post the part numbers replaced and symptoms that you had

Doesn't it seem odd that they want the technicians to actually tear down and rebuild transmissions in the dealership service departments? It seems to me it would be way more cost effective to swap in new, or rebuilt units, to save time and they can analyze the defect in their own labs/shops at corporate if they want to.

Yes, very odd. We have educated a legion of what I call "component swappers" as technicians, because no one can diagnose anything without having the computer or DCX tell you what to "component swap" . Diagnosing just takes too much time and there is no money in it.
The tech's complain that they are forced to comply or their performance appraisals based on "component swapping" metrics weeds them out as non-performers to the money machine.

However, DCX instructed the dealership to replace the TC and Trans Pump. We then went a step further and disassembled the trans pump.

TDI4BY · **Joined:** Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:56 pm **Posts:** 644

I wonder if a good shift kit would fix these things. they usually allow more flow to the cooler along with higher line pressures.

rs4mtnitro · **Posted:** Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:30 am

TDICRD58 wrote:

Is this the same transmission pump used on the Hemi powered 545 tranny? If it is, then they must be seeing failures on high torque gasoline applications as well.................. Has anyone consulted a good independent transmission shop? Some say it's software but if it is - then why don't I see this issue on my early 2005? My tranny has been reflashed to 2006 levels.
I wish you guys the best of luck, (and I am not the sharpest tool in the shed) but it just doesn't add up. My gut tells me it's of mechanical origination (and the software could also be seeing a crap signal from a sensor)
If it were mine I would find the best transmission shop in the area and let them look at it. The worst thing that can happen is that you are out a few bucks - but you also have an expert opinion for the record when dealing with DC.
GOOD LUCK!!!

Hemi's have there peak torque at around 4200 rpms and crd's are around 1800 which makes a difference in pressure levels.

MightyCRD · **Posted:** Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:18 pm

rs4mtnitro wrote:

Hemi's have there peak torque at around 4200 rpms and crd's are around 1800 which makes a difference in pressure levels.

True, but how much torque is the Hemi putting out at 1800 - 2000 rpms ... if it is close to the CRD, then I wouldn't think that would matter ....

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:39 pm

MightyCRD wrote:

rs4mtnitro wrote:

Hemi's have there peak torque at around 4200 rpms and crd's are around 1800 which makes a difference in pressure levels.

True, but how much torque is the Hemi putting out at 1800 - 2000 rpms ... if it is close to the CRD, then I wouldn't think that would matter ....

Hemi is would be lucky to make 100 lbs torque at 1800 rpm.

no-blue-screen · **Posted:** Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:51 pm

rs4mtnitro wrote:

TDICRD58 wrote:

Is this the same transmission pump used on the Hemi powered 545 tranny? If it is, then they must be seeing failures on high torque gasoline applications as well.................. Has anyone consulted a good independent transmission shop? Some say it's software but if it is - then why don't I see this issue on my early 2005? My tranny has been reflashed to 2006 levels.
I wish you guys the best of luck, (and I am not the sharpest tool in the shed) but it just doesn't add up. My gut tells me it's of mechanical origination (and the software could also be seeing a crap signal from a sensor)
If it were mine I would find the best transmission shop in the area and let them look at it. The worst thing that can happen is that you are out a few bucks - but you also have an expert opinion for the record when dealing with DC.
GOOD LUCK!!!

Hemi's have there peak torque at around 4200 rpms and crd's are around 1800 which makes a difference in pressure levels.

Max torque for the hemi 375 ft-lbs @4200 rpm per the GC specs. In the RAM it doesn't reach max torque until 5200rpm. It should still be close though as those larger V-8 engines have a significant amount of low-end torque as well. As for how much the hemi puts out at 1800 rpm...I haven't been able to come up with that info.

MightyCRD · **Posted:** Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:26 pm

This should shed a little light on the situation ....

Stolen from www.popularhotrodding.com

alljeep · **Posted:** Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:32 pm

MightyCRD wrote:

This should shed a little light on the situation ....

Stolen from www.popularhotrodding.com

So these friggin' transmissions should be working provided there is adequate transmission oil cooling taking place. So, back to the scattered reports of overheated transmissions due to an undersized cooler rather than a total miss-match of transmission for the CRD torque...

Screw it. I've reached my capacity of worring about it - I'm just going to drive it until it burns up (I guess that's anywhere from 12k-36k miles from what's been reported). :roll:

rs4mtnitro · **Posted:** Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:46 pm

It has to be a different torque convert though. The stall speed should be alot higher in a gas engine.

KenJennings · **Posted:** Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:27 pm

Does anyone have one of those nice looking Torque/Power diagrams for the CRD ?

MightyCRD · **Posted:** Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:04 pm

rs4mtnitro wrote:

It has to be a different torque convert though. The stall speed should be alot higher in a gas engine.

Should be, but it sure doesn't seem that way on mine .... at 45mph, steady cruise, I'm running about 1500rpm, but under moderate throttle, the rpm will come up another 3 or 4 hundred rpm .... I wish either the TC clutch would lock up at around 40 under low load or we had a lower stall ... :roll:

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

The following post came from Dodge Truck World Forum Transmissions - it seems to mirror some of our problems. Maybe the Hemi 545RFE's are problematic too...

Quote:

I was just wondering if anybody else has had any issues with the transmission out of a 2006 QC Ram 4X4 HEMI. Mine is in the shop for the second time with transmission problems and it has less than 2,500 miles. No that is not a typo on the miles. This is the second time they have torn it apart. Something about a bad selonoid both times causing high line pressure and then destroying some internal stuff.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:24 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

The following post came from Dodge Truck World Forum Transmissions - it seems to mirror some of our problems. Maybe the Hemi 545RFE's are problematic too...

Quote:

I was just wondering if anybody else has had any issues with the transmission out of a 2006 QC Ram 4X4 HEMI. Mine is in the shop for the second time with transmission problems and it has less than 2,500 miles. No that is not a typo on the miles. This is the second time they have torn it apart. Something about a bad selonoid both times causing high line pressure and then destroying some internal stuff.

Hmmmm...... Follows my hunch from about a page and a half back.......... Very interesting that at least one of those 545RFE transmissions is having symptoms close to mine.

DZL_LOU wrote:

MoLibertyCRD wrote:

Interesting... I am within a couple of days (if I remember correctly), and mine has had valve problems on the tranny. I can't remember all of the parts they replaced, but they didn't include the pump or TC. I haven't had any problems with the EGR, though, although I can really kill the mosquitoes when I get on er'! :lol:

When you step back and look at the repair procedure I participated in, logically the valve body and solenoid pack would be the next suspect.
As a reference point, it sure would help if you could post the part numbers replaced and symptoms that you had

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

We then disassembled the old transmission pump into it's two separate halves. It certainly had numerours failure points. One of the check valves had a spring with virtually no tension on it.
The Separator Plate of the pump was heat stress discolored and clutch dust was quite noticeable on the separator plate.
The two driven gears that produce the pressure were worn against the pump housing. It seems that the pump housing to hold the driven gears had an improper casting, thus causing improper pressure to move the fluid through the pump.

On the new transmission pump I did notice an anodized Separator Plate that was not anodized in the old failed pump. I can at least vouch that it is redesigned.
The TC is not redesigned and remains the same.

Here is a post from Dodge Truck World Forum - Transmissions. The conversation is about adding a Transgo shift kit to the 545RFE auto tranny in the Dodge truck. In this post, the terms flashpaq refer to reprogramming the TCM for higher tranny line pressure. The resistor mod is part of the TransGo kit to also raise tranny line pressure. But what really caught my attention is TransGo's mention of breaking 2 tranny pumps by raising line pressure and the comment on the poor metal quality of the pump itself.

"the hemiverter X & transgo hd-2 is a good combo. fast shifts up or down, and more power off the line. the 2,500rpm stall is really precise. the mechanic who did the install talked me out of putting in the resistor till i talked to trans-go. dave at trans-go said they tested an '05 with a resistor and flashpaq together and broke two front pumps. apparently the pump is el-cheapo with aluminun housing and pot-metal gears. stock pressure in the valve-body is about 65psi in gear at idle and 155 at WOT. flashpaq or resistor raise WOTpsi to 185-195psi. resistor & flashpaq together go way over 200psi. 200psi is max. recommended by trans-go."

It seems to mirror DLZ's observation of the excessive pump wear - maybe this is the reason why. Cost cutting? Normally I wouldn't see this kind of post as anything to be concerned about, but DZL_LOU has shown some serious problems on a transmission pump with only 24K miles on it.

Ripster · **Posted:** Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:07 pm

I removed the resistor and posted in another post that I did, just in case. And after talking with
TransGo it smoothed out the last issue I had with shifting once the resistor was removed. The
resistor's purpose is to raise the line pressure to have firmer shifts. No problems on mine, but
with the one shift from 2-3 a bit firmer than I wanted, I removed it and now I am smooth in
all shifts.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

I'm wondering if cost cutting on the 545RFE and the CRD ended up with the following scenario:

cost reduction pressure produces poor quality tranny pump
high torque situation from 2.8L diesel engine
High transmission oil temps from small tranny cooler
EMCC torque converter lockup/slipping issues causing even higher tranny oil temps and clutch material in oil

All speculation on my part, but there is somewhat of a pattern emgerging from some of the posts, about Chrysler transmissions coupled with high torque engines grenading internal parts.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

I removed it and now I am smooth in
all shifts.

Has the tranny shudder still stayed away before/after removing the resistor?

litton · **Posted:** Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:50 pm

I have a GC HEMI and follow the forum on JU and tranny issue on HEMI's have been non-existant. The 4.7's as you all know had a recall for shudder but not the HEMI.

Here are the HEMI transmission specs if they would help but I don't know if they are the same as our CRD's.

545RFE transmission features
(standard on Limited, N/A on Laredo)
The 545RFE five-speed transmission has been refined to offer smoother operation and better economy while improving the performance and towing capability of the vehicle. To accomplish all this, several features were added, including a redesigned solenoid to provide quieter operation when shifting from "park" into "drive." A turbine damper also improves NVH, related to torque converter application.

The 545RFE continues to offer dual second-gear ratios to provide a balance of performance and fuel economy. Depending on driving conditions, the transmission will select the more appropriate second gear. A secondary overdrive ratio increases highway fuel economy and reduces engine noise at high speeds.

Transmission ratios:

Gear W5A580 545RFE
1st 3.59 3.00
2nd 2.19 1.67 upshift / 1.50 kickdown
3rd 1.41 1.0
4th 1.00 0.75
5th 0.83 0.67
Reverse 3.16 3.0

Ripster · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:50 am

Ranger1 so far so good, but I always give any changes about a week, will let you know.

TC and Trans Pump Aggrivation

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