TC and Trans Pump Aggrivation

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:41 am

Ranger1 wrote:

I'm wondering if cost cutting on the 545RFE and the CRD ended up with the following scenario:

cost reduction pressure produces poor quality tranny pump
high torque situation from 2.8L diesel engine
High transmission oil temps from small tranny cooler
EMCC torque converter lockup/slipping issues causing even higher tranny oil temps and clutch material in oil

All speculation on my part, but there is somewhat of a pattern emgerging from some of the posts, about Chrysler transmissions coupled with high torque engines grenading internal parts.

Update to the continuing saga.............. going into week 4..........

Checked in with the dealership today and DCX is now focusing it's wrath on the tech and dealership.
A new 545RFE is being shipped from DCX but ultimatums were made once DCX gets the defective transmission.

If the original warranty repair of replacing the TC and Trans Pump was determined that a human error was introduced during assembly from the tech, DCX will charge back the dealership the full cost of the transmission.

By the way the 545RFE, if your in the market for purchasing one new will cost you roughly $6,000. Ahhh, that does not include the labor to install it back into the Libby.

If DCX would design and execute quality components or hold suppliers to high standards of quality, they would not have to get into a situation where they have to stand by their mistakes.

alljeep · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:48 am

DZL_LOU wrote:

Ranger1 wrote:

I'm wondering if cost cutting on the 545RFE and the CRD ended up with the following scenario:

cost reduction pressure produces poor quality tranny pump
high torque situation from 2.8L diesel engine
High transmission oil temps from small tranny cooler
EMCC torque converter lockup/slipping issues causing even higher tranny oil temps and clutch material in oil

All speculation on my part, but there is somewhat of a pattern emgerging from some of the posts, about Chrysler transmissions coupled with high torque engines grenading internal parts.

Update to the continuing saga.............. going into week 4..........

Checked in with the dealership today and DCX is now focusing it's wrath on the tech and dealership.
A new 545RFE is being shipped from DCX but ultimatums were made once DCX gets the defective transmission.

If the original warranty repair of replacing the TC and Trans Pump was determined that a human error was introduced during assembly from the tech, DCX will charge back the dealership the full cost of the transmission.

By the way the 545RFE, if your in the market for purchasing one new will cost you roughly $6,000. Ahhh, that does not include the labor to install it back into the Libby.

If DCX would design and execute quality components or hold suppliers to high standards of quality, they would not have to get into a situation where they have to stand by their mistakes.

Great, they threaten their own dealers. DCX created this mess by ordering only parts replacements. They also created this corporate and service structure - but refuse to sleep in the bed that they made!

Well, DZL_LOU, looks like I'll have to find another dealer when it happens to me because yours will not touch another CRD after this!

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:53 am

alljeep wrote:

Great, they threaten their own dealers. DCX created this mess by ordering only parts replacements. They also created this corporate and service structure - but refuse to sleep in the bed that they made!

Well, DZL_LOU, looks like I'll have to find another dealer when it happens to me because yours will not touch another CRD after this!

Are you kidding me, they got two more CRD's on the rack as of this morning.

One CRD had the fuel rail off and the tech had me smell a component from the fuel rail and asked what vintage do you think this is. I replied hmmmm, smells like 89 Octane Regular Unleaded. He said, yup the fool put gas in it and is now wanting us to warranty the work......... :-)r

The other CRD had an EGR flow control valve being replaced. By the way, DCX estimates the job for replacing the EGR Flow control valve at 2.5 hours under warranty. They estimated my TC and Transpump replacement at 1.5 hours
Go figure :roll:

s_allcroft · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:13 am

I had to have my tranny rebuilt at 25,000 miles

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:23 am

s_allcroft wrote:

I had to have my tranny rebuilt at 25,000 miles

Can you provide some specifics of the rebuild so that we can compile any similarities from your situation and others that we are seeing?
Parts and Part numbers would help.

s_allcroft · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:28 am

Sure

The Torque Converter went.

They changed the Torque Converter, and said that due to the failure that they had to change the pump and tranny oil cooler too,

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:33 am

s_allcroft wrote:

Sure

The Torque Converter went.

They changed the Torque Converter, and said that due to the failure that they had to change the pump and tranny oil cooler too,

Thanks!!! Did you go ahead and read the sticky in the forum to log the issue with the NHTSA to force a re-call issue.

Bovie · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:42 am

DZL_LOU, Has the dealership given you a car to drive. 4 Weeks is flat out wrong. That is lost driving time and warranty time. I don't know what I would do for a month with out my libby. Guess I would have to go back to the 240D Full time.

Am I right in thinking that warranty work also has a 1 year 12,000 mile warranty even if this goes past the factory one?

s_allcroft · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:50 am

Just posted a complaint with NHTSA

Also I did not have my CRD for almost 3 weeks. However I had a rental courtsey of my extended warranty.. At NO Charge to ME..

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:26 pm

Bovie wrote:

DZL_LOU, Has the dealership given you a car to drive. 4 Weeks is flat out wrong. That is L.O.S.T. driving time and warranty time. I don't know what I would do for a month with out my libby. Guess I would have to go back to the 240D Full time.

Am I right in thinking that warranty work also has a 1 year 12,000 mile warranty even if this goes past the factory one?

Yes, I have been given a car to drive that was covered for 5 days only and we are working through the remainer of the days. The dealership is trying to push back on DCX to cover the over 5 day rental.

When I'm talking warranty work I'm talking about the 7yr/100,000 on the powertrain for the new car.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

So does your new 545RFE come with the "new design" pump or the same one as our originals? Wonder if their is any way to tell if DC switched to the newer design pumps on all 545RFEs or just used them on warranty work?

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

Checked in with the dealership today and DCX is now focusing it's wrath on the tech and dealership.
A new 545RFE is being shipped from DCX but ultimatums were made once DCX gets the defective transmission.

DC is in big trouble in recent sales. Jeep sales down in monthly comparisons (July) in year over year 52% or 58% for Liberty /Grand Cherokee. Minvan, Dodge trucks all in similar trouble. Now they need their existing customer goodwill they built up with us to see them through this. Perhaps they can contact user groups such as this forum and see what we think of their product and support in return for our money.

Pause, silence while Dr. Z pleads for customers to hang on to their blown torque converters just a little bit longer and even possibly send a contribution to help them out.

Sound of 3 customer wooden nickels thrown in the wishing pool at Dr. Z's office. Then, a lonely blown torque converter lands on his desk. We heard you Zieter!

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:24 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

So does your new 545RFE come with the "new design" pump or the same one as our originals? Wonder if their is any way to tell if DC switched to the newer design pumps on all 545RFEs or just used them on warranty work?

Yes, I can tell by just looking into the bell housing at the transmission pump seal cover if it houses the new trans pump or the old one.

The only issue is that I have to be physically present again when they open it up from the crate or prior to placing it on the transmission stand.

no-blue-screen · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:40 pm

I have a question about this issue. I remember reading over on the TDIclub forums that VW had problems with several components on their vehicles around the 2000-01 MY IIRC. The one I recall was the power window regulator. This device was deemed to be so problematic, that VW was forced to give an extended warranty just on that single component.

So my question is, if DC doesn't fix this issue with the TC, shouldn't they be forced to extend the warranty on something that is considered to be a mfr defect or design flaw? I mean who can afford to have expensive trans work done every 20-30k miles? It sounds to me like there would have to be some type of class-action lawsuit against DC for this TC issue in order for them to do something like this. I mean the average car, that is maintained properly will go at the very least 100k miles before needing any tranny work. DC needs to fix this very soon!

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:56 pm

They went back to MY '00 or whatever year it was and said they would fix with new & improved part's, which they did. They also had to refund repair cost that customers spent to have them fix when they were out of warranty. That also happened for the MAF on the diesel, coil packs on one of the gassers and couple other items over the last 6 years.

no-blue-screen · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:17 pm

oldnavy wrote:

They went back to MY '00 or whatever year it was and said they would fix with new & improved part's, which they did. They also had to refund repair cost that customers spent to have them fix when they were out of warranty. That also happened for the MAF on the diesel, coil packs on one of the gassers and couple other items over the last 6 years.

This is exactly what needs to happen with DC. Someone who has been out of a vehicle for over a month needs to contact an attorney and file to class-action status against them. Once our warranties run out, we are going to be screwed unless they come out with a redesigned part. We shouldn't have to purchase a $2,000+ 7yr/100K warranty to protect ourselves. It is very clear that these issues are because of poor engineering/design and not normal wear and tear.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:25 pm

No-Blue. Where does the line start :lol:

We know their track record on the lower ball joint issue. They will need to be made to replace them all. It's obvious to me they are trying to weasel out by patching the firmware so they'll last through the 3/36 warranty. They owe us what we paid for and I don't mean their mistakes. Also on the VW issues. There were class action suites on at least the window regulators and MAF sensors on the diesels.

no-blue-screen · **Posted:** Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:17 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

No-Blue. Where does the line start :lol:

We know their track record on the lower ball joint issue. They will need to be made to replace them all. It's obvious to me they are trying to weasel out by patching the firmware so they'll last through the 3/36 warranty. They owe us what we paid for and I don't mean their mistakes. Also on the VW issues. There were class action suites on at least the window regulators and MAF sensors on the diesels.

Well I guess the first thing to try and do is get a recall through the NHTSA since this is a borderline safety issue. If they don't force them to recall the TC, then I guess someone will have to file a lawsuit against them and force them to replace this crap with a better TC that will last.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:11 am

A running change was made to the 545RFE transmission pump and pump cover during MY 2007.

The previous pump housing featured a machined front hub, with the TC impeller hub seal pressed into a bore in the hub. The pump cover featured a large ID with a square section inner seal, and was retained by two snap rings at the ID and OD

The new pump design has no front hub. The TC seal is pressed into the pump cover, and the cover is retained by an outer snap ring only. There is no inner snap ring.
The Photo on the right shows the new trans pump that was installed with the pump cover on my transmission.

See Photos for proof of redesign trans pump:

alljeep · **Posted:** Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:45 am

DZL_LOU wrote:

A running change was made to the 545RFE transmission pump and pump cover during MY 2007.

The previous pump housing featured a machined front hub, with the TC impeller hub seal pressed into a bore in the hub. The pump cover featured a large ID with a square section inner seal, and was retained by two snap rings at the ID and OD

The new pump design has no front hub. The TC seal is pressed into the pump cover, and the cover is retained by an outer snap ring only. There is no inner snap ring.
The Photo on the right shows the new trans pump that was installed with the pump cover on my transmission.

See Photos for proof of redesign trans pump:

Well, that answers that! So the folks with the 7yr/70k powertrain warranty will have to pay a $100 deductible when the problem occurs out of basic warranty and the 2006 CRD owners with only the 3yr/36k b2b warranty will be screwed if it does not fail early like yours.

At least there are new parts for real. That actually makes me happy! I just don't look forward to a failure and having everything get ruined. When these go out, they should replace the entire transmission system. All lines, the cooler, all filters, the main unit and housing, EVERYTHING.

Can you post a larger picture of the one you linked???

TC and Trans Pump Aggrivation

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