CAC/intercooler replaced today.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:06 pm

The tech at the dealer replaced the CAC & two hoses today and it took about 2.5 hrs and the easiest way was to pop the A/C lines and pull the condenser (after removing front bumper) then pop out the CAC, other way requires even more work he decided by pulling radiator and some other stuff.

Good news is all the oil had pretty much been sucked out of the intercooler (none would drain out) but the outlet side hose to intake was full of fairly fresh oil, while the inlet side coming off turbo was dry as a bone, thanks to EHM. Tech said if I was smart I should leave it like that to keep the oil out of the intercooler, needless to say it will always be like that or have a filter in the system. Now I can start testing the CCV filter again this weekend if weather cools off some, dealer garage has A/C, mine does not. :cry:

Parts manager says if D/C doesn't ask for the I/C back that he will call and I can have it cleaned up and save for spare, said he should know in a couple weeks. I will keep my fingers crossed.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

pop the A/C lines and pull the condenser

As in drain the R134A refrigerant, then pull it, and after reinstallation,then vacuum it down and recharge it? Or did he swing the condensor up and out of the way, with the lines still attached so as not to break the system?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:31 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

As in drain the R134A refrigerant, then pull it, and after reinstallation,then vacuum it down and recharge it? Or did he swing the condensor up and out of the way, with the lines still attached so as not to break the system?

It can't be swung up, it has to be pumped down and recharged and I may be wrong, but I think he said to come out the back way meant pulling fan and belt pully and draining the coolant. He decided it was easier to pull bumper assembly and neater to pump down the a/c and that is what he did and I liked that idea better then disassembling the engine and cooling system.

n3qik · **Posted:** Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:43 pm

Why was the CAC removed??

Danno · **Posted:** Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:31 pm

My CAC was replaced a month or so ago(With the EGR, EGR Mix Valve) and it was replaced just as oldnavy described. Since them I have been running the EHM mod so I dont have to go through this again. To this day all hoses and CAC are bone dry

Ya need some help testing that ccv oldnavy?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:00 am

I am going yo reinstall the CCV test unit that I modified, but I don't expect it to work very well. The engineer who has never designed one would not make it my way, said it would not work. I ask him how come the one I designed for the VW diesels worked and have been working just fine for about 4 years now. He just ignored that part and said the OEM engineers and he new more about the design then I did and would not make it like the VW model I designed.

Anyway the funny thing is the new MB V6 diesel has the same CCV setup and my design could easly be modified (if required) to work on the MB diesel. See the CCV on the rear of the right valve cover, looks like our don't it dudes.

T^2 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:53 pm

oldnavy wrote:

Good news is all the oil had pretty much been sucked out of the intercooler (none would drain out) but the outlet side hose to intake was full of fairly fresh oil, while the inlet side coming off turbo was dry as a bone, thanks to EHM.

So basically you're saying that the intercooler was cleaned out by itself? Or did it ever have any significant quantity of oil built up in it? So if you have been running it stock for some time, can one reasonably expect the intercooler to be free of oil or do you need to do the EHM to get these results?

I was waiting for you're CCV filter to arrive before making any changes (it's still stock) to my setup. Based on your estimated likelihood of success with the current CCV filter design, I believe I may go ahead and do the EHM, and perhaps follow that up with a Pro-Vent install as time permits. I was hoping to avoid the EHM/Pro-Vent options. Both are PITA's - especially the Pro-Vent, because it will likely need to be uninstalled every time I take the Jeep into the service center (don't want to void that warrantee). The EHM will also need to be un-done for the same reasons; it just won't be as big of a PITA.

Anyway, since I've been running my CCV system with no modifications for a little over 22k miles now, I'm wondering what will be needed - if anything - in terms of intercooler cleaning etc. I figured you might be able to give some insight based on your recent experience.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:36 pm

Funny how the one pictured is tilted up...could it be using gravity as an extra benefit...to keep the oil out of the escape tube? Seems like we could run our EHM to a catch can (very low and away ) and then route it back up for the fumes to the stock tube entry point.

I was reading on the Euro CRD KJs for 2007 that they have Particle Filters...

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:06 pm

T^2 wrote:

So basically you're saying that the intercooler was cleaned out by itself? Or did it ever have any significant quantity of oil built up in it? So if you have been running it stock for some time, can one reasonably expect the intercooler to be free of oil or do you need to do the EHM to get these results?

I was waiting for you're CCV filter to arrive before making any changes (it's still stock) to my setup. Based on your estimated likelihood of success with the current CCV filter design, I believe I may go ahead and do the EHM, and perhaps follow that up with a Pro-Vent install as time permits. I was hoping to avoid the EHM/Pro-Vent options. Both are PITA's - especially the Pro-Vent, because it will likely need to be uninstalled every time I take the Jeep into the service center (don't want to void that warrantee). The EHM will also need to be un-done for the same reasons; it just won't be as big of a PITA.

Anyway, since I've been running my CCV system with no modifications for a little over 22k miles now, I'm wondering what will be needed - if anything - in terms of intercooler cleaning etc. I figured you might be able to give some insight based on your recent experience.

Once the oil flow into the CAC from the CCV was stopped it did somewhat self clean. The problem is the oil leaves a residue that build's up and is almost impossible to remove without dropping it into a chem bath and boiling it out. I was stock for about 12,000 miles and but now I am running the EHM untill I can figure out a filter system we can get made or make ourselves.

DW you are correct the angle up design will help with returning oil back to engine, but it still needs a filter system to take the fine oil droplets out of the airflow. The problem with the low catch can is moisture in the system for the folks that park outside. The can and hoses could become a freeze problem and if they plug then you will for sure have some blown seals.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:57 pm

oldnavy wrote:

Once the oil flow into the CAC from the CCV was stopped it did somewhat self clean. The problem is the oil leaves a residue that build's up and is almost impossible to remove without dropping it into a chem bath and boiling it out.

The tech that cleaned my intercooler "gratis", used Transmission Cooler Line Cleaner. This product is a Mopar product that is a clear liquid that just dissolves grease/oil. He filled the intercooler up and let it lay flat on the ground. The next day, he flushed it out with water and then applied some gentle air pressure to aid in the drying out.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:23 pm

T^2 wrote:

Both are PITA's - especially the Pro-Vent, because it will likely need to be uninstalled every time I take the Jeep into the service center (don't want to void that warrantee). The EHM will also need to be un-done for the same reasons; it just won't be as big of a PITA.

Not true. I have never taken my Provent out for dealer service. They even removed it once to replace the TCM and reinstalled it afterwards. DC's technical support rep and district service manager have both inspected the install. They understand it's purpose, have a copy of the engineering spec., and don't have a problem with it because none of the emissions equipment have been disconnected. The EHM would be another story, you have disconnected an emission control device which can get you into warranty problems.

BiodieselJeep.com · **Posted:** Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:23 pm

The Elephant hose is NOT a PITA, it is really simple and I easily remove it each time I go into the dealer. Last time, I even left the hose tied in over the engine and just reconnected the CCV. I've let them know how I feel about the CCV return and so they didn't even mention the odd hose sitting there.

And since the clear hose is now JET BLACK with a shiny outer surface,it is starting to look like some sort of cool old chrome pipe!

Oldnavy, how much oil have you collected in your hose-bottle? Is you hose outed "downhill" the whole way?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:23 pm

BiodieselJeep.com wrote:

The Elephant hose is NOT a PITA, it is really simple and I easily remove it each time I go into the dealer. Last time, I even left the hose tied in over the engine and just reconnected the CCV. I've let them know how I feel about the CCV return and so they didn't even mention the odd hose sitting there.

And since the clear hose is now JET BLACK with a shiny outer surface,it is starting to look like some sort of cool old chrome pipe!

Oldnavy, how much oil have you collected in your hose-bottle? Is you hose outed "downhill" the whole way?

I didn't get a chance to look at it this weekend, temp never got below 78* and the humidity stayed about 100% the whole time. All I managed to do was change the transfer case fluid to Valvoline ATF+4 and changed oil filter then topped up the oil. I was so sweat soaked the wife had to help me out of my wet clothes, not to mention I felt like I was breathing water. The rain gage had 1/4" water in it and grass was wet yesterday, but we never saw it rain. Spent about 20 minutes in the garage this morning after the wife left for work (8 am) and had to take a shower when I came in to get all unsweaty.

I looked at the hose when topping off the oil and it did look like you described it, but I was too hot and sweaty to continue. Maybe I will check it tonight or tomorrow morning if this weather breaks somewhat. The dealership has a airconditioned shop, sure must be nice. Mine hose comes up over the wiring harnas and down to the frame where the bottle rest beside the frame.

The dealership has no problem with my EHM or with a Provent, as they have a few customers that same mod's on MB Sprinter or Cummins.

T^2 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:22 am

RFCRD wrote:

T^2 wrote:

Both are PITA's - especially the Pro-Vent, because it will likely need to be uninstalled every time I take the Jeep into the service center (don't want to void that warrantee). The EHM will also need to be un-done for the same reasons; it just won't be as big of a PITA.

Not true. I have never taken my Provent out for dealer service. They even removed it once to replace the TCM and reinstalled it afterwards. DC's technical support rep and district service manager have both inspected the install. They understand it's purpose, have a copy of the engineering spec., and don't have a problem with it because none of the emissions equipment have been disconnected. The EHM would be another story, you have disconnected an emission control device which can get you into warranty problems.

Sorry but I disagree. In my book it's still a PITA. The fact that you get away with these mods at your dealer doesn't mean that others will get away with them at theirs. I've already read post where individuals have had trouble with dealers trying to void their warrantee because of these mods.

How would my dealer handle this situation? I don't know for sure, but my read of them suggest my chances would be 50/50 for a favorable outcome. I suspect that they may look the other way until the day comes that there is a failure that they could reasonably (or even unreasonably) link to the Provent mod - in which case the Provent mod might be used as justification to void the warrantee. The chance of this happening is increased with the likelihood of additional EGR or EGR Air Control Valve failures.

Here is a question for you – what would happen if you broke down some day while on a road trip and you have to use some other dealer (outside your district service managers district)? Will they be as accommodating to your meddling under the hood? Who knows? Could they possibly void the warrantee? Do you want to find out? I don’t. So what does that mean? Does one need to remove the Provent and return the vehicle to the stock configuration before the tow-truck arrives? Now that would definitely be a huge PITA.

Yes there is the Magnussen-Moss Act. However, the fact that you might have to even mention this Act is in itself a PITA - let alone should you have to retain an attorney to try and enforce it. Yes the onus of proof for invalidation of warrantee is on the manufacturer, but the onus of enforcing/prosecuting the Act is on the consumer. If the dealer/manufacturer decides to dig their heals in you will have to take them to court to get any satisfaction via this Act. Should one think about attempting such an action, they should consider the "deep pockets" of the manufacturer and the uphill battle for which they are about to embark (all that I can say to you is - that if you try it then good luck). If that isn't a PITA, then I don't know what is.

I would say that the best way to avoid such warrantee issues is to not show up at the dealer with the Provent installed, or with any lingering evidence of it's install. To do that one must uninstall the device every time before taking the vehicle to the dealer. This is what made Oldnavy's CCV filter design so appealing. All you have to do is twist off Oldnavy's CCV filter and put the orginal one back on. Still, the fact that you have to do anything under the hood before taking it to the dealer is a PITA.

Remember, this was a "New" vehicle purchase. The fact that we are even discussing such issues is a PITA - let alone trying to find and implement a viable solution/workaround to the problem. For some, what makes buying a new vehicle worth the added expense is the idea that you won't (or shouldn't) have various issues with the vehicle that have to be dealt with. In other words if one wanted a project, they could have just as easily bought a used vehicle and saved themselves the added expense on the purchase price.

This particular issue is even more egregious for that fact that it could have been easily avoided if DCX hadn't been such cheap-asses. It isn't like oil separators are anything new or bleeding edge/expensive technology. This vehicle should have come with one (that works) and we all should be talking about the fun we are having with this vehicle instead of trying to deal with this crap.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:10 am

T^2 wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

T^2 wrote:

Both are PITA's - especially the Pro-Vent, because it will likely need to be uninstalled every time I take the Jeep into the service center (don't want to void that warrantee). The EHM will also need to be un-done for the same reasons; it just won't be as big of a PITA.

Not true. I have never taken my Provent out for dealer service. They even removed it once to replace the TCM and reinstalled it afterwards. DC's technical support rep and district service manager have both inspected the install. They understand it's purpose, have a copy of the engineering spec., and don't have a problem with it because none of the emissions equipment have been disconnected. The EHM would be another story, you have disconnected an emission control device which can get you into warranty problems.

Sorry but I disagree. In my book it's still a PITA. The fact that you get away with these mods at your dealer doesn't mean that others will get away with them at theirs. I've already read post where individuals have had trouble with dealers trying to void their warrantee because of these mods.

How would my dealer handle this situation? I don't know for sure, but my read of them suggest my chances would be 50/50 for a favorable outcome. I suspect that they may look the other way until the day comes that there is a failure that they could reasonably (or even unreasonably) link to the Provent mod - in which case the Provent mod might be used as justification to void the warrantee. The chance of this happening is increased with the likelihood of additional EGR or EGR Air Control Valve failures. Yes there is the Magnussen-Moss Act. However, the fact that you might have to even mention this Act is in itself a PITA - let alone should you have to retain an attorney to try and enforce it. Yes the onus of proof for invalidation of warrantee is on the manufacturer, but the onus of enforcing/prosecuting the Act is on the consumer. Should one think about attempting such an action, they should consider the "deep pockets" of the manufacturer and the uphill battle for which they are about to embark (all that I can say to you is – if you try it then good luck). If that isn't a PITA, then I don't know what is.

I would say that the best way to avoid such warrantee issues is to not show up at the dealer with the Provent installed, or with any lingering evidence of it's install. To do that one must uninstall the device every time before taking the vehicle to the dealer. In my book that is a PITA.

Remember, this was a "New" vehicle purchase. The fact that we are even discussing such issues is a PITA - let alone trying to find and implement a viable solution/workaround to the problem. For some, what makes buying a new vehicle worth the added expense is the idea that you won't (or shouldn't) have various issues with the vehicle that have to be dealt with. In other words if one wanted a project, they could have just as easily bought a used vehicle and saved themselves the money on the purchase price.

This particular issue is even more egregious for that fact that it could have been easily avoided if DCX hadn't been such cheap-asses. It isn't like oil separators are anything new or bleeding edge/expensive technology. This vehicle should have come with one (that works) and we all should be talking about the fun we are having with this vehicle instead of trying to deal with this crap.

I should clarify the discussion I had with both the dealer and DC. I had the Provent discussion with the service manager at 5K miles (prior to installation) when there was evidence of significant CAC oiling. Fortunately, they are a multi-brand dealership, service a lot of diesels, and have a basic understanding of the issues. They acknowledged my concern without admitting to a problem with the CRD. On subsequent visits, further documentation of the problems were made. Eventually, I sent the owner of the dealership and DC a demand letter itemizing issues common to this model (multiple TSB's) and issues with my specific vehicle. I was careful to use simple terms such as "new vehicle" and "unacceptable" in the text. This left DC with little choice but to respond, acknowledge my issues, and attempt a remedy (or buy it back). So the Provent was an integral part of that discussion in the context that it's use may prevent me from suing DC for repurchase. I also have a well documented warranty/service history over multiple visits. Ohio's 12 month/18K mile statutory limit for lemon law action is now passing but my lawyer is confident that should I have a major problem (TC or EGR failure), he can get this repurchased due to the documentation trail going back to 3 months/5K miles. I sense you are just as frustrated and unhappy with DC over this product as me. This is just a suggestion as to a course of action that appears to be working for me at the present.

T^2 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:10 am

BiodieselJeep.com wrote:

The Elephant hose is NOT a PITA, it is really simple and I easily remove it each time I go into the dealer. Last time, I even left the hose tied in over the engine and just reconnected the CCV. I've let them know how I feel about the CCV return and so they didn't even mention the odd hose sitting there.

And since the clear hose is now JET BLACK with a shiny outer surface,it is starting to look like some sort of cool old chrome pipe!

Oldnavy, how much oil have you collected in your hose-bottle? Is you hose outed "downhill" the whole way?

If you read my previous diatribe - or post - then you already know what I think about this. The fact that you have to do anything on this "new" vehicle to deal with this issue is in itself a PITA. The fact that one might have to open the hood of this "new" vehicle to remove/uninstall anything before taking it to the dealer is in itself a PITA. The fact that you have to take this "new" vehicle back to the dealer for anything other than routine maintenance is a PITA. It's a "new" vehicle and part of the reason for buying a "new" vehicle is to avoid having to deal with such PITA's.

Don't get me wrong. I knew that my '05 was a new model year for the diesel in this country and as such there may be a few teething pains. Nevertheless, dealing with this issue, and it's list of less than ideal solutions/workarounds, is in my book, still a PITA - especially considering that it could have easily been avoid (see above post).

T^2 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:45 am

RFCRD wrote:

T^2 wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

T^2 wrote:

Both are PITA's - especially the Pro-Vent, because it will likely need to be uninstalled every time I take the Jeep into the service center (don't want to void that warrantee). The EHM will also need to be un-done for the same reasons; it just won't be as big of a PITA.

Not true. I have never taken my Provent out for dealer service. They even removed it once to replace the TCM and reinstalled it afterwards. DC's technical support rep and district service manager have both inspected the install. They understand it's purpose, have a copy of the engineering spec., and don't have a problem with it because none of the emissions equipment have been disconnected. The EHM would be another story, you have disconnected an emission control device which can get you into warranty problems.

Sorry but I disagree. In my book it's still a PITA. The fact that you get away with these mods at your dealer doesn't mean that others will get away with them at theirs. I've already read post where individuals have had trouble with dealers trying to void their warrantee because of these mods.

How would my dealer handle this situation? I don't know for sure, but my read of them suggest my chances would be 50/50 for a favorable outcome. I suspect that they may look the other way until the day comes that there is a failure that they could reasonably (or even unreasonably) link to the Provent mod - in which case the Provent mod might be used as justification to void the warrantee. The chance of this happening is increased with the likelihood of additional EGR or EGR Air Control Valve failures. Yes there is the Magnussen-Moss Act. However, the fact that you might have to even mention this Act is in itself a PITA - let alone should you have to retain an attorney to try and enforce it. Yes the onus of proof for invalidation of warrantee is on the manufacturer, but the onus of enforcing/prosecuting the Act is on the consumer. Should one think about attempting such an action, they should consider the "deep pockets" of the manufacturer and the uphill battle for which they are about to embark (all that I can say to you is – if you try it then good luck). If that isn't a PITA, then I don't know what is.

I would say that the best way to avoid such warrantee issues is to not show up at the dealer with the Provent installed, or with any lingering evidence of it's install. To do that one must uninstall the device every time before taking the vehicle to the dealer. In my book that is a PITA.

Remember, this was a "New" vehicle purchase. The fact that we are even discussing such issues is a PITA - let alone trying to find and implement a viable solution/workaround to the problem. For some, what makes buying a new vehicle worth the added expense is the idea that you won't (or shouldn't) have various issues with the vehicle that have to be dealt with. In other words if one wanted a project, they could have just as easily bought a used vehicle and saved themselves the money on the purchase price.

This particular issue is even more egregious for that fact that it could have been easily avoided if DCX hadn't been such cheap-asses. It isn't like oil separators are anything new or bleeding edge/expensive technology. This vehicle should have come with one (that works) and we all should be talking about the fun we are having with this vehicle instead of trying to deal with this crap.

I should clarify the discussion I had with both the dealer and DC. I had the Provent discussion with the service manager at 5K miles (prior to installation) when there was evidence of significant CAC oiling. Fortunately, they are a multi-brand dealership, service a lot of diesels, and have a basic understanding of the issues. They acknowledged my concern without admitting to a problem with the CRD. On subsequent visits, further documentation of the problems were made. Eventually, I sent the owner of the dealership and DC a demand letter itemizing issues common to this model (multiple TSB's) and issues with my specific vehicle. I was careful to use simple terms such as "new vehicle" and "unacceptable" in the text. This left DC with little choice but to respond, acknowledge my issues, and attempt a remedy (or buy it back). So the Provent was an integral part of that discussion in the context that it's use may prevent me from suing DC for repurchase. I also have a well documented warranty/service history over multiple visits. Ohio's 12 month/18K mile statutory limit for lemon law action is now passing but my lawyer is confident that should I have a major problem (TC or EGR failure), he can get this repurchased due to the documentation trail going back to 3 months/5K miles. I sense you are just as frustrated and unhappy with DC over this product as me. This is just a suggestion as to a course of action that appears to be working for me at the present.

The fact that you had to do any of this for a "new" vehicle is what I would call a PITA. Especially since you had to establish a documentation trail and consult your attorney on this matter - let alone the conversations and correspondence with your dealer and DC. The fact that DC may use the Provent install as a shield from any suit brought by you is particularly irritating (see discussion of MM-Act above). And what about bringing other dealers up to speed on your situation should you ever need their services while on a road trip or whatever? Having to go to that effort in itself is a PITA.

So far I would say that I'm not too frustrated or unhappy with the product overall. In fact I like the vehicle. I just find dealing with issues like this on a new vehicle to be a considerable PITA - especially when they could have been easily avoided as in this case (DC could have spent a few extra pennies and put a functioning CCV oil separator in there). Overall though, I think this little diesel powered vehicle has great potential and may become especially handy to have around should I get that Boston Whaler I’ve been thinking about towing behind it.

Of course the PITA factor and my level of frustration/unhappiness will obviously increase should I start having the TC and Transmission issues that I've read about. So, far there has been only a hint of evidence that this might occur with my vehicle. Time will tell.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:11 am

T^2 wrote:

The fact that you had to do any of this for a "new" vehicle is what I would call a PITA. Especially since you had to establish a documentation trail and consult your attorney on this matter - let alone the conversations and correspondence with you dealer and DC. The fact that DC may use the Provent install as a shield from any suit brought by you is particularly irritating (see discussion of MM-Act above).

So far I would say that I'm not too frustrated or unhappy with the product overall. In fact I like the vehicle. I just find dealing with issues like this on a new vehicle to be a considerable PITA - especially when they could have been easily avoided as in this case (DC could have spent a few extra pennies and put a functioning CCV oil separator in there). Overall though, I think this little diesel powered vehicle has great potential and may become especially handy to have around should I get that Boston Whaler I’ve been thinking about towing behind it.

Of course the PITA factor and my level of frustration/unhappiness will obviously increase should I start having the TC and Transmission issues that I've read about. So, far there has been only a hint of evidence that this might occur with my vehicle. Time will tell.

Yes this is a PITA. Had I known it would go this way, I would have traded my aging Chevy pick-up for a new Silverado. It's sad, this is my first new Chrysler product in 10 yrs (after having owned many for the 15 yrs prior). They screw me on this, it will be my last. At this point I'm just trying to make it work, hoping that I'm not beating a dead horse. Decided to give it until early Spring. By that time I will have @ 30K miles on it. If I'm still having issues it will have to go, either by suing DC or just trade it in on something that works.

BiodieselJeep.com · **Posted:** Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:21 pm

OK, you win, it IS a pain in TA. However, notice how much we talk about it? Its like that girlfriend who drives you crazy and who you are always complaining about to your friends.... but you just won't dump her.

I think, secretly, you love your Libby and you won't get rid of her.

Yeah, sure, she is high maintanance...but what pretty girl isn't? And when you take her out to someplace rough and quite, just you and her, and you are bumping up and down, goosing her for the thrill of it, you know its the good stuff. She may grumble at first, but in the end she does everything you always wanted and is the wildest ride of your life. And afterwards, when you stretch out under the stars and reach for a cool beer, you know you got it good.

And that is all a man can ask for.

CAC/intercooler replaced today.

Who is online