TC and Trans Pump Aggrivation

Bgame · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:18 am

Just want to throw this in and make sure that everyone is checking the fluid while the CRD is running. Checked mine when it was hot and was a qt. low.

no-blue-screen · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:22 am

Bgame wrote:

Just want to throw this in and make sure that everyone is checking the fluid while the CRD is running. Checked mine when it was hot and was a qt. low.

Hmm...good point. I will have to recheck it.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:23 am

no-blue-screen wrote:

I checked mine yesterday when cold (after sitting all night) and the level was just below the last hole above the hot fill. So apparently mine has enough fluid in it.

It feel like it shift okay except for when it goes into the first OD at around 53 mph. It goes in and makes this low pitched humm...does anyone else have this?

Check it hot after driving it 5 or 10 miles to make sure it is filled proper, it could just as easy be over filled. Once you check it hot in park and it is in the middle of the two holes for hot check then check it after it sits over night. That way you have a correct baseline. Over filled can cause shifting problems also.

Bgame · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:33 am

oldnavy wrote:

no-blue-screen wrote:

I checked mine yesterday when cold (after sitting all night) and the level was just below the last hole above the hot fill. So apparently mine has enough fluid in it.

It feel like it shift okay except for when it goes into the first OD at around 53 mph. It goes in and makes this low pitched humm...does anyone else have this?

Check it hot after driving it 5 or 10 miles to make sure it is filled proper, it could just as easy be over filled. Once you check it hot in park and it is in the middle of the two holes for hot check then check it after it sits over night. That way you have a correct baseline. Over filled can cause shifting problems also.

I can't really see how overfilling can cause problems of shifting but I can see how it might want to puck it out the tube.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:44 am

Bgame wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

no-blue-screen wrote:

I checked mine yesterday when cold (after sitting all night) and the level was just below the last hole above the hot fill. So apparently mine has enough fluid in it.

It feel like it shift okay except for when it goes into the first OD at around 53 mph. It goes in and makes this low pitched humm...does anyone else have this?

Check it hot after driving it 5 or 10 miles to make sure it is filled proper, it could just as easy be over filled. Once you check it hot in park and it is in the middle of the two holes for hot check then check it after it sits over night. That way you have a correct baseline. Over filled can cause shifting problems also.

I can't really see how overfilling can cause problems of shifting but I can see how it might want to puck it out the tube.

Some trannies it will, some it won't. Some will have pump failures, some will blow seals when overfilled.

Remember the two top holes are the low & full marks for this tranny, the two holes at the bottom are marked cold fill, but I think they are incorrect. Do the hot check and if it is in the upper half of the space between the two holes for hot check, then next chance you get for cold check make note of where it is and if necessary mark it with a file.

Bgame · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:54 am

oldnavy wrote:

Bgame wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

no-blue-screen wrote:

I checked mine yesterday when cold (after sitting all night) and the level was just below the last hole above the hot fill. So apparently mine has enough fluid in it.

It feel like it shift okay except for when it goes into the first OD at around 53 mph. It goes in and makes this low pitched humm...does anyone else have this?

Check it hot after driving it 5 or 10 miles to make sure it is filled proper, it could just as easy be over filled. Once you check it hot in park and it is in the middle of the two holes for hot check then check it after it sits over night. That way you have a correct baseline. Over filled can cause shifting problems also.

I can't really see how overfilling can cause problems of shifting but I can see how it might want to puck it out the tube.

Some trannies it will, some it won't. Some will have pump failures, some will blow seals when overfilled.

Remember the two top holes are the low & full marks for this tranny, the two holes at the bottom are marked cold fill, but I think they are incorrect. Do the hot check and if it is in the upper half of the space between the two holes for hot check, then next chance you get for cold check make note of where it is and if necessary mark it with a file.

I can't see a pump blowing its seal when overfull. A pump is full of fluid and pumping or is low and not pumping very well. I'm sure there is a valve on the pump to keep it from building too much pressure. So a pump works best when full. It may blow a seal but not from being over full. It is pumping and when it is full it cannot pump more than it is designed to pump.

TDI4BY · **Joined:** Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:56 pm **Posts:** 644

pump pumpity pump pumper pump :lol:

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:41 am

Bgame wrote:

I can't see a pump blowing its seal when overfull. A pump is full of fluid and pumping or is low and not pumping very well. I'm sure there is a valve on the pump to keep it from building too much pressure. So a pump works best when full. It may blow a seal but not from being over full. It is pumping and when it is full it cannot pump more than it is designed to pump.

Hey as I said some do some don't and it is what I have been told over the years on various trannys by tech's, it could be that over fill on our tranny only causes bad shifting, or maybe a blown seal. Or it just may only blow tranny fluid out the tube all over the engine compartment, like happened to me many years ago when I had a tranny seviced before a cross country trip. Just take the advise for what it's worth and don't be so nit picky dude, just remember things happen that make no sense sometimes.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Tranny fluid level is important... the FSM shows the correct level depending on temperature of the fluid. I wish the shudder was related to fluid level on mine. I checked it many times - from the factory it was close to perfect. Having changed my other Liberty 45RFE tranny, it does take a bit of adjusting to get it correct.

Bgame · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:58 am

oldnavy wrote:

Bgame wrote:

I can't see a pump blowing its seal when overfull. A pump is full of fluid and pumping or is low and not pumping very well. I'm sure there is a valve on the pump to keep it from building too much pressure. So a pump works best when full. It may blow a seal but not from being over full. It is pumping and when it is full it cannot pump more than it is designed to pump.

Hey as I said some do some don't and it is what I have been told over the years on various trannys by tech's, it could be that over fill on our tranny only causes bad shifting, or maybe a blown seal. Or it just may only blow tranny fluid out the tube all over the engine compartment, like happened to me many years ago when I had a tranny seviced before a cross country trip. Just take the advise for what it's worth and don't be so nit picky dude, just remember things happen that make no sense sometimes.

First of all I'm not a DUDE, Second I was not nit picking. I just made a statement of facts about how a pump cannot be overfull and blow seals....

Jeger · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:11 am

Overfilling can cause foaming of the fluid which is a bad bad thing, you really dont want air being pumped around your tranny, can cause overheating, bad shifting, spewing out the filler, and you have to flush the transmission to fix it.

Edit, Im not sure about blowing seals, but i think it can cause them to leak.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:58 am

Bgame wrote:

First of all I'm not a DUDE, Second I was not nit picking. I just made a statement of facts about how a pump cannot be overfull and blow seals....

First of all I'm not a Transmission expert but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.................
I started this thread with the experiences I had with the 545RFE. It's important to me to get good solid discussion on this issue. Let me make some comments around what we are trying to describe to you.

The transmission case is vented preventing pressure buildup in normally unpressured areas. Severe overfilling can raise the fluid level such that the transmission may lose fluid through the vent or leak from seals that are above the normal fluid level. Hence we call this a blown seal.
I had this personally happen on a Chrysler product. It leaked only when the vehicle was parked in a slant towards the dipstick in my office parking garage.

Also when the fluid level is high enough it can get whipped up by the geartrain assembly in the trans, air bubbles develop and upset the hydraulic pressures that are trying to keep the clutches and bands from slipping.

Keep in mind transmission fluid is non-compressible but air is compressible and will create issues in your pump and the pump seal will fail due to air pressure due to bubbles compressing against the seal by the now frothy fluid Latte that is in your tranny.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:30 pm

DZL_LOU wrote:

First of all I'm not a Transmission expert but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.................
I started this thread with the experiences I had with the 545RFE. It's important to me to get good solid discussion on this issue. Let me make some comments around what we are trying to describe to you.

The transmission case is vented preventing pressure buildup in normally unpressured areas. Severe overfilling can raise the fluid level such that the transmission may lose fluid through the vent or leak from seals that are above the normal fluid level. Hence we call this a blown seal.
I had this personally happen on a Chrysler product. It leaked only when the vehicle was parked in a slant towards the dipstick in my office parking garage.

Also when the fluid level is high enough it can get whipped up by the geartrain assembly in the trans, air bubbles develop and upset the hydraulic pressures that are trying to keep the clutches and bands from slipping.

Keep in mind transmission fluid is non-compressible but air is compressible and will create issues in your pump and the pump seal will fail due to air pressure due to bubbles compressing against the seal by the now frothy fluid Latte that is in your tranny.

I guess I should sleep at the Inn more often. :wink:

As for

Bgame wrote:

First of all I'm not a DUDE, Second I was not nit picking. I just made a statement of facts about how a pump cannot be overfull and blow seals....

I'm sorry dudette I didn't mean any insult calling you a guy, my mistake. I have seen pumps damaged from back pressure, etc.

Bgame · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:42 pm

oldnavy wrote:

DZL_LOU wrote:

First of all I'm not a Transmission expert but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.................
I started this thread with the experiences I had with the 545RFE. It's important to me to get good solid discussion on this issue. Let me make some comments around what we are trying to describe to you.

The transmission case is vented preventing pressure buildup in normally unpressured areas. Severe overfilling can raise the fluid level such that the transmission may lose fluid through the vent or leak from seals that are above the normal fluid level. Hence we call this a blown seal.
I had this personally happen on a Chrysler product. It leaked only when the vehicle was parked in a slant towards the dipstick in my office parking garage.

Also when the fluid level is high enough it can get whipped up by the geartrain assembly in the trans, air bubbles develop and upset the hydraulic pressures that are trying to keep the clutches and bands from slipping.

Keep in mind transmission fluid is non-compressible but air is compressible and will create issues in your pump and the pump seal will fail due to air pressure due to bubbles compressing against the seal by the now frothy fluid Latte that is in your tranny.

I guess I should sleep at the Inn more often. :wink:

As for

Bgame wrote:

First of all I'm not a DUDE, Second I was not nit picking. I just made a statement of facts about how a pump cannot be overfull and blow seals....

I'm sorry dudette I didn't mean any insult calling you a guy, my mistake. I have seen pumps damaged from back pressure, etc.

I'm not a dudette either.... Not a drugstore cowboy..... Not a dude... Just a real cowboy from Texas. I have real cow crap on my boots.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:09 pm

Bgame wrote:

I'm not a dudette either.... Not a drugstore cowboy..... Not a dude... Just a real cowboy from Texas. I have real cow crap on my boots.

I guess we suffer from geograpic differences of slang term, here it means guy or male. Here abouts you just have red clay or mud on your boots, unless you stepped in the supprise package the neighbors dog left in the yard.

PS: My daughter says it also means person, not the sex of the individual. What do I know, I am only 61 years old and been around the wrold a few times. :roll:

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:26 pm

cerich wrote:

move it to the front, just got off the phone with my dealers service manager, he called to discuss the F31 recall that they couldn't/didn't do. According to him STAR has advised him the even a new TCM may not take the FLASH, THEY HAVE MULTIPLE SOFTWARE ISSUES THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO RESOLVE AND UNTIL THEY DO THEY AREN'T THROWING ANY MORE EXPENSIVE TCM'S AT THE PROBLEM.

cerich.

any word from DC?

cerich · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:39 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

cerich wrote:

move it to the front, just got off the phone with my dealers service manager, he called to discuss the F31 recall that they couldn't/didn't do. According to him STAR has advised him the even a new TCM may not take the FLASH, THEY HAVE MULTIPLE SOFTWARE ISSUES THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO RESOLVE AND UNTIL THEY DO THEY AREN'T THROWING ANY MORE EXPENSIVE TCM'S AT THE PROBLEM.

cerich.

any word from DC?

of course not, I also called DC direct on Friday, they promised to get back to me...

I have a 6 hour drive tommorow so I"ll call and be a pest then. I'll post results.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

If DC has violated Federal EPA law, as well as some state laws by disabling the OBDII port, and they cannot remediate the violation without a new TCM, what choice would they have? If a CRD fails state inspection by reason of a locked OBDII port, and it needs a new TCM to take the flash update, I don't see how they can avoid replacing it. The first CRD owner who fails any state inspection that uses OBDII equipment would pose a serious problem for DC if they failed to replace any TCM that won't take the update.

cerich · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:52 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

If DC has violated Federal EPA law, as well as some state laws by disabling the OBDII port, and they cannot remediate the violation without a new TCM, what choice would they have? If a CRD fails state inspection by reason of a locked OBDII port, and it needs a new TCM to take the flash update, I don't see how they can avoid replacing it. The first CRD owner who fails any state inspection that uses OBDII equipment would pose a serious problem for DC if they failed to replace any TCM that won't take the update.

there was a posting on another liberty forum last week where the CRD did exactly that, fail an emissions test after service at the dealer, unfortunatly the owner never came back and said what has happened since. I live in a county that doesn't require a emissions test yet other counties in GA do, I may get the CRD tested anyway to have it fail "on the record", right now I'm having fun with where this is going. If DC just came strait with what is going on it would save them so much money in the long run, instead they just bury their head and hope for the best. In today's information age where we all research to see if "we are not alone" with product issues they have no hope in hell of coming out of this well by their current path. ( I am a manager at a company that just did a fairly large recall, we were so open about the problem, and did the fix so quickly while giving each consumer a Ball hat that our reputation has actually gotten better because of it)

How many of us who may not be patient may become so when DC is open and showing they are trying to fix things, how many of us NOW are ready to Lemon law, NHTSB report, class action because they keep silent? We already showed as a consumer we are OK with some differences by getting a diesel, they used us as a test market but yet don't respect what the market is telling them. Corporate stupidity at it's finest.

Jim Friese · **Posted:** Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:59 pm

My Liberty CRD had a very bad problem while driving home today from Dayton, OH to Florissnat, MO. I was cruseing along at about 65-70 just
east of Idiaplois, IN when a loud THUMP came from under the car and my speed very very rapidly decreased as though I lost total power. Lucky for me I had
both hand on the wheel so I was able to control the car. I had clear lanes to the right and rear so I moved to get off of the road. As I got to the right lane
from the outside lane the probled cleared up. I do remember that for awhile pushing down on the accellarator had no effect and then all of a sudden
the problem was gone. Had their been a car bahind me or to the right I would have had a Major Accident, and I would not be telling this right now. you
guys and gals out there let me know if you have had to same problem.. I intend to file a safty issue with the NTSA ASAP, and I will tell my dealer the
same when I see hin tomorrow. Jim From Florissant, MO. I had 1190 miles on the Libery when this happened.

TC and Trans Pump Aggrivation

Who is online