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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:58 am 
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Well the OEM muffler is special. It depends on which motor and tranny you have a to how and where they mount it. The V6 Libby gets the standard mounting position and direction, the CRD gets the turnaround and turnover mounting position and the 4 bangers get the turnover but moved forward postition. Any of the above with manuals get a slightly different gasket and bearing set...of course once you go from left-hand drive to right-hand drive, the procedures are reversed...unless you are south of the equator...don't even ask because the exhaust spins the EGR gases in a reverse direction...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:04 am 
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Perhaps the TQ and EGR work better SOUTH of the Equator!!!! As all the stuff spins the opposite direction down there.. Perhaps we all need to move!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:55 am 
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Just got off of the phone with the Service Dept. and they stated that if the CEL comes on for the same problem then it will not be covered under warr. due to the muffler. :evil:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:01 am 
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KJMedic wrote:
Just got off of the phone with the Service Dept. and they stated that if the CEL comes on for the same problem then it will not be covered under warr. due to the muffler. :evil:


Seriously?

Do they think you are stupid? Sounds like you need to talk to their bosses. And then the bosses boss, and so on and so forth. I hope you get this worked out.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:11 am 
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Jeger wrote:
KJMedic wrote:
Just got off of the phone with the Service Dept. and they stated that if the CEL comes on for the same problem then it will not be covered under warr. due to the muffler. :evil:


Seriously?

Do they think you are stupid? Sounds like you need to talk to their bosses. And then the bosses boss, and so on and so forth. I hope you get this worked out.


I will say that this is why NOT TO DO MODS until out of WARRANTY... Why??? Cause even if the MOD is not the problem The Companies will use it as an excuse to VOID the Warranty... And this is not only a D/C thing.

Its kinda like insurance companies wanting the premiums NOW... and then trying to figure out how to NOT PAY, PAYLESS, PAY IN A YEAR etc.. When there is a claim filed...

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 Post subject: contact the company that makes your aftremarket muffler...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:09 pm 
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KJMedic wrote:
Just got off of the phone with the Service Dept. and they stated that if the CEL comes on for the same problem then it will not be covered under warr. due to the muffler. :evil:


Contact the company that makes your aftermarket muffler. I would think they would be willing to take them to task on that issue . Also I would call customer service demand to talk to the DC zone office.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:50 pm 
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KJMedic wrote:
Just got off of the phone with the Service Dept. and they stated that if the CEL comes on for the same problem then it will not be covered under warr. due to the muffler. :evil:


All of the above, call their bosses, the district manager, etc. And throw this in as well - if they try to deny warranty coverage WITHOUT FIRST PROVING the muffler is the cause of the problem, then they are in violation of federal law, and you will be contacting a lawyer to initiate proceedings against them.

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 Post subject: Re: Another reason for EGR failure
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:00 am 
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KJMedic wrote:
Got my 4th EGR valve installed today at 26,271 miles. On the invoice is a note stating "Noticed during exhaust inspection that vehicle has had a high flow exhaust pipe in place of muffler. Rec. replacing with factory unit because the EGR system is calibrated for a certain backpressure and a highflow exhaust reduces backpressure and may cause problems with EGR flow" :?

Is it me or is this total BS? I have had 4 EGR related problems. 2 with the stock and 2 with the Glass Pack.



add to the list your state attorney general, who may taake some action since they are breaking Federal laws as previosly mentioned. Here is a link to the Magnusin-Moss Act.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/bus ... rranty.htm


I have contacted the Missouri Attorney General office proactively seeking them to force DC to extend the EGR waranty and resolve the problems. If we become vocal DC will have to do something about. Everyone that had multiple EGR failures needs to start making noise.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:43 am 
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What to do after warranty-------rip the egr and related parts out of there, put some duct tape on the cel. FIXED

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:05 am 
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TDI4BY wrote:
What to do after warranty-------rip the egr and related parts out of there, put some duct tape on the cel. FIXED

Unfortunately the system in integral to the engine controls. The system could (in theory) be disconnected by plating over/sealing the EGR ports but you still have the airflow control valve function to contend with along with the CEL. Many states require periodic emissions testing, which it will fail with an active CEL (the core of the F31 recall issue). I'm hoping that someone who is more tech advanced than me will build with a plug-in device to fool the computer before I have to make the choice to dissconnect the system. Until that time, I'm riding on the 100K expended warranty and make DC keep the system functioning.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:09 am 
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No emissions testing here. I know they have export models without any EGR so It is possible to remove it but I may have to drive to South Africa to get the proper computer flash :-)r :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:05 am 
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Ditto on calling the Attorney General, we have used that one before. Works kind of like a swift kick in the tail for most places. :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:21 pm 
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OK sent messages through web sites to, Dynomax (maker of my muffler), VM Motori, and Banks Eng.

Here is the responce from VM:
" Mr. Conner,
Please be advised that as far as we are aware there is no fix associated with muffler for the EGR valve. Can you pls tell me who your dealer is so that he can be advised as well. We should also let you know that in many cases the fault code for the EGR goes off when in reality its the intake manifold (makes a humming sound. If I can be of further assistance don't hesitate to contact me.

Best Regards,

Robert Hord
VM North America "

Also got a message on my voice mail from Banks today stating that the after market muffler would not cause an EGR failure but may make CPU throw CEL code. I am going to call him back today. (today is a honey do day.)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:32 pm 
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Let me restate from my previous post.
Our EGR is an electrically controlled EGR and I still see no possible way for the back pressure from the exhaust modification.
It's good that we are getting reinforcing statements from the exhaust vendors as well it just adds to our case.

The EGR used on our CRD's is not a vaccum pressure regulated system that is dependent on back pressure. The EGR is an electrically operated pin and seat orifice that allows precise control by the ECM and much faster response of the pin than an "old school" vaccum pressure EGR.
This "component swapper" called a tech needs to understand what components he is swapping out before making blanket statements that turn out to be false.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:44 pm 
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Nice response from VM. Maybe the dealer will actually listen to the engine manufacturer.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:54 am 
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KJMedic wrote:
OK sent messages through web sites to, Dynomax (maker of my muffler), VM Motori, and Banks Eng.

Here is the responce from VM:
" Mr. Conner,
Please be advised that as far as we are aware there is no fix associated with muffler for the EGR valve. Can you pls tell me who your dealer is so that he can be advised as well. We should also let you know that in many cases the fault code for the EGR goes off when in reality its the intake manifold (makes a humming sound. If I can be of further assistance don't hesitate to contact me.

Best Regards,

Robert Hord
VM North America "

Also got a message on my voice mail from Banks today stating that the after market muffler would not cause an EGR failure but may make CPU throw CEL code. I am going to call him back today. (today is a honey do day.)

It's good to have a contact at VM Motori that appears to be listening. What is the e-mail address? They may be helpful if contacted by numerous owners showing concern over the long-term maintainability of their engine.

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 Post subject: their engine
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:29 pm 
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RFCRD wrote:
It's good to have a contact at VM Motori that appears to be listening. What is the e-mail address? They may be helpful if contacted by numerous owners showing concern over the long-term maintainability of their engine.


I have no concerns with the engine... the rest of the stuff around it I do have considerable concerns with. I know you could consider the EGR valve part of the engine-- but is really designed for European fuel and I blame the EGR fiasco on DC corporate for not respecing it for the American market-- that is not VM's fault. It is the EGR, broke CCV valve (another cheap half arsed emissions item), ball joints, transmission, and exploding front differentials that I have reliability/maintainability concerns with. The motor is only thing that seems to work perfectly in this thing. Other than the EGR, and the resulting glow plug failure that hamfisted DC service techs cause when they try to fix the EGR on the cheap, I have not heard anyone complain about these motors. I also tend to think that the EGR will get better with the improved fuel and the new redesign.

In short I blame all our problems on DC cheap arsed accountants, not VM. But give DC enough time, and they will ruin VM too. DC operates on the Wal-Mart methodology: "How cheap and how bad of service can we have before we loose our customers?" My family has always had DC products while i was growing up, and many relatives worked for Chrysler, but they are just substandard when it comes to service and doing it right the first time. My sister is annoyed at her Dodge mini-van which blew the tranny at 35,000 miles. My mother now has a Buick, after tiring of problems with her last Dodge. My dad is in a Toyota, and my other vehicle is a Toyota (Which I have had 0 problems with and no recalls in the 5 years I have owned it). I know that I love my CRD, but I will probably not buy another Jeep because of my service experience with this vehicle-- and I for sure will not buy any of their other DC product (Chrysler, Mercedes, Dodge). Heaven help Jeep if Toyota makes a diesel FJ, I will be seriously tempted. If my tranny issue is not resolved to my satisfaction, I will be getting a lawyer anyway. Shame on u DC.


Last edited by Pablo on Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:22 pm 
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I wish VM the very best, everytime someone skips DC and goes to VM, they respond!

I'm happy to have their engine, now if DC could just take a lesson...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:34 pm 
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cerich wrote:
I wish VM the very best, everytime someone skips DC and goes to VM, they respond!

I'm happy to have their engine, now if DC could just take a lesson...

This is all I want to see, VM Motori get involved and just maybe we could get an alternative service arrangement through an authorized Detroit Diesel dealer. I know of several heavy truck dealers (which are DDA dealers) and the DDA distributer that would do better than the local Jeep dealer. However, it is true that the engine is not the issue. It's usually the rest of the stuff bolted to the engine causing problems.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:40 pm 
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If DC fails in the diesel market, they can look back to how they handled the CRD introduction and support to see where the problem started. It should be self explanatory. The CRD itself is 99% there engineering-wise - a few adjustments on the tranny TC/software, egr/ccv and dealer support could have made the CRD introduction a tremendous success for them - instead of what it is. Perhaps some competition from Toyota and Honda will sharpen them up a bit.

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