Well, at 9:00am yesterday Ted (USAFCOP) and I set out to install an ARB air compressor, switches, and air line in my Jeep. At the most it should have taken 4 hours. Then we had a slight problem...

We were using the top strut bolts on the passenger side as a mounting base for the compressor. Just as we got the compressor mounted up I went to retorque the bolts and POW a head pops right off!!! Unfortunately, it was an inside one and required complete disassembly of the passenger side suspension and strut, two trips to Marty's (RockLizard) house for grinding and welding, and a few trips to the parts store for new hardware.

It looks like All J is/was using a grade nothing bolt on the Frankenlift (at least on mine) and the bolts start stretching around 60 pounds and pop at about 65 (factory specs say the bolts should be torqued to 80). This is the second time this has happened to me. The first time happened during install, but was a much easier fix as the bolt was easily accessible and changed. At the time I didn't think anything of it other than it must have been one bad bolt. Anyway, if you have a Frakenlift or if you are installing one...please check the bolts and make sure you have good strong bolts installed in the top strut plate.

The fix...we cut off the remaining bolts and pressed in four wheel studs (part #98524.1 from Advance Auto). Just for good measure Marty tacked those in place. Now I should be able to torque those things to factory specs (and then some) without issue. When I find the time I'll pull out the driver's side and fix that as well. To be honest I'm a little concerned there may be a safety issue here. Marty is contacting Quinn to let him know what happened. Hopefully, I just got the wrong bolts and everybody else is good!

Anyway, we did finish up with the compressor (and watch a little football) and I arrived home at 9:00pm. Big thanks to Ted and Marty.

_________________
'03 Sport 4x4 140k miles. Yeah, she's had some work done

Strange, pretty sure mine had grade 8's in it.

_________________
99 TJ
71 C101
04 KJ
03 SFA KJ Sport
LOST JEEPS So-Cal

Sounds like another quality control issue. Thanks for sharing. I've had other members reach out to me regarding their negative experiences with the Frankenlift. I seem to be the only one questioning the lift outright as the "cure all" lift for the KJ.

Listen, the folks at All J are really nice, but that shouldn't be a deterrent for speaking your mind and sharing your possibly negative experiences. It's hyprocritical to openly criticize Rocky Road's OTT, Skyjacker's Platinum Series, Rock Krawler's 7-Up debacle and then remain politely silent for possible issues with others.

Until Rock Kralwer came out with their 3.5 X Factor System, the Frankenlift was the most expensive lift available. People are constantly recommending the Frankenlift over Rusty's. What's up with that? Besides the rear shock issue, owners with the Rusty's coil lift seem satisfied. The lift isn't as high, so the CV angles aren't as extreme. It kills me to see people passing on bum scoop to young, hardworking, unsuspecting kids who may be opening a can of worms when they order their lift.

Maybe it's a control issue like the one Rancho had with their struts or with All J's and their apparent use of inferior bolts. Maybe it's a problem with OME or Daystar. Hard to tell when there are so many manufactures involved. Regardless, I believe there's a potential problem with the end product. It obviously produces drastically different results on various vehicles.

For the money, I personally expected the lift to be the well tested, problem free, cure-all lift which addressed all the KJ lift issues. I didn't expect it to cause extreme CV axle angles resulting in torn CV boots and "severly" reducing the life expectancy of the axles. A number of 4x4 and front end shops gave my axles 6 months before they'd self destruct. Nor did I expect to pay an extra couple of hundred dollars to purchase a-arms out of "necessity" to "complete" the lift. A good lift is a good lift. It should address all major concerns. That is why TJ owners spend thousands on their lifts. Look at Ninth Degree, their lift is costly, but it includes brackets to correct just about everything affected by the install. It's also available in stages so you can progressively build upon the lift, but again, not out of necessity. You should get what you pay for. Let's see the Frankenlift used to use Rancho struts & shocks and Skyjacker rear coils, then OME coils all around, then OME struts. There was no bump stop for the arms, then hose clamped ones, and now built in ones. If the lift is too high, you can't just remove a poly spacer because that would adversely affect the lift. WTF, over?! I'm raising the B.S. flag. Maybe earlier testing should be rendered obsolete.

Sorry, but I had to vent.

_________________
Failure is not an option!

For some reason I thought that too, but there are NO markings on the bolt heads that came from All J.

A Grade 8 bolt head should have 6 radial lines on it. See the link below for additional info. According to the link's chart, no markings would be a Grade 2, 3 radial lines a Grade 5, and 6 radial lines a Grade 8 unless they're metric bolts. They're usually gold in color, although I'm not sure if that's a telltale sign. I checked mine, they're all Grade 8.



http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Bolt-Grade-Chart.aspx

_________________
Failure is not an option!

My frankenlift has Grade 8s. I just had it off last weekend to replace a blown strut, and looked for the heck of it. Kind of a coincidence that this has come up!

_________________
2008 Unlimited Rubicon - 3.5" AEV/Nth lift - 35" MT/R with Kevlar - AEV Wheels - York OBA
2008 Patriot - Fuel Saver

I agree w/ the above. However, I would hope that the first thing an unhappy customer would do BEFORE posting on the internet about a problem would be to call the vendor and discuss it w/ them then maybe post on the internet about the possible problem.

Changes in the Frankenlift have been based upon Further testing and changes in the mfg.'s products. The SJ coils were found to sag over time and IIRC, that is one reason they changed to OME. However, MY SJ coils are still holding up Ok. (Lucky I guess) The bumpstop in the front spacer was a change/addition that ALL J requested from Daystar and Daystar changed it.

Anyhow, All J Will back their products and they, based upon my experience, are not against constructive criticism IF they are given the opportunity to fix and investigate any problems people encounter.
Please contact your vendors before ragging them out online so they get a fair chance of fixing any problems. (Not that I am accusing anyone of doing that) blah blah blah.....enough of my rambling....

_________________
99 TJ
71 C101
04 KJ
03 SFA KJ Sport
LOST JEEPS So-Cal

Someone needs some peanut butter and jelly.

Sorry to hear about your experience Joel. At least you got to watch the Broncos BEAT the Patriots for the five time in the last six meetings.

How's the compressor working? Is the ARB locker in yet?

_________________
===
New KJ Gear - Desert Armor Flak

2004 Renegade Light Khaki - 4" JBA Lift - Rock Lizard Products: Komodo Dragon Rear Bumper, Prototype Winch-mount Front Bumper, Super Skink Sliders - All J's Super Tranny Skid II - 31" Firestone Destination AT's on Moab wheels - Cobra 75W CB w/ stock Antenna mod

[b]Retired, US Military

The bolts on Joel's (Skyjump) stut plate were a grade two. I tried to call Heather and Quinn today, but they were out of the office, so I will try again tomorrow. I have installed a CRD Frankenlift only, and then my run in with Joel's strut plate yesterday are my onlyhands on with any of the kit parts, but have ridden in many KJ's with the kit. The kit rides great, but the CRD assembly of the front struts was fun. AllJ doesn't assemble the CRD front kits, nor do they make the upper strut plates, so I am going to suggest to them that someone put a bug in Daystar's ear to press new studs into the strut plates. The M12x1.5" wheel lugs pressed in real nice into the strut plates, and you know the wheel lugs are pretty strong for torquing to 80ft/lbs.

I agree that contacting the vendor first might be a good idea so there isn't a big panic, but this is more of an informative post, not a bash post, and I told Joel I would contact AllJ today, which I attempted to do. I'm not sure how old Joel's kit is, and AllJ may be using different hardware now. This is more of a post how to fix the problem if it happens to someone else. If a bolt breaks off, grind off the head flush to the strut plate, tap the bolt out of the hole, put a wheel stud in the hole, hit with a hammer or preferable a press (table vice works good too), and you are done. Takes about five minutes and $5 per strut plate. I am going to recommend to AllJ to use the wheel studs like we did on all the strut plates, preassembled gassers or for the CRD's, unless Daystar can press studs into the plates when they are made. I think it is pretty silly the studs aren't put in by Daystar. Pressing out the old studs and pressing them back into the new plate when we did the CRD Frankenlift was about retarted and burned up a lot of install time. That is not an AllJ problem, it is a Daystar problem.

_________________
WWW.ROCKLIZARDFABRICATIONS.COM

Never said I was unhappy...I just want others to be aware in case they are running grade 2 bolts as well. It was probably just a mistake. I don't have anything but good things to say about All J. It never occured to me that it would cause "panic" or the like. Geez - sorry I mentioned it.

Sorry, my post was more aimed at the situation and not the author of this thread. I actually replied after reading fdezone's post.

_________________
99 TJ
71 C101
04 KJ
03 SFA KJ Sport
LOST JEEPS So-Cal

All J 's overall quality control is nonexistant--take the strut issue, they don't check the parts they pass on. When All J puts together the "kit" the assembly needs to be qualilty control checked at that point. I rmember the strut issue and stated poor qualily control and this was dismissed by heather as something we did not see was on top of--- ya sure --
This is not something that the end user, IE the customer has to "discover" and find out. The reason for the lack of quality control is only one reason --PROPIT NOT CUSTOMER SATISFACTION that is secondary.

I think that people who install this lift are daunted and thus try to follow the directions to the T. We would have heard of other people popping their bolts at 65 if there was a quality control issue. Granted, there is a quality control issue for Skyjump since he had the grade 2 bolts but I believe this is a mistake. If there are others out there who had this issue they need to speak up. Otherwise, one is an unfortunate mistake, many is a quality control issue. Having said that, we should not feel uncomfortable to post our negative experiences with any product touted on this website. This is the only way we can fix a potential problem. I have had two two lifts by AllJ and I have been completely satisfied. But once you start working on the Liberty, you see that there are so many variances from one Libby to the next. For instance, there are over 14 different springs depending on the VIN # of your vehicle... Rusty's is a good lift from what I hear. It is not cutting edge however. Prior to the RC lifts, the Frankenlift was as high as we could go (which is what we are all calling for) and when the enveloped is pushed, the margin for error becomes slimmer. And cutting edge means constantly upgrading to better kit parts when they become available. So, with the combination of the variances in the Libby and the bleeding edge there are bound to be some where the kit doesnt work. It's just a statistical fact. I don't know how many lifted KJ's are out there using the Frankenlift but it is probably enough to know if there is a quality control issue.

If you want to rant about quality control, talk to a CRD owner about the three magic letters...E, G and R. and the fact that the CRD was just a test.

Speak up, and I hope this helps,

Dave

_________________
2005 Black CRD Sport
All J CRD Frankenlift with 500 fronts, Boulderbars, and Superskid
Kilby Gas Skid
Yukon Rear Axles
265/75 16 TrXus M/T's and Bridgestone Revo's
Fumoto Valve
Aero Turbine 2525
Rock Lizard Komodo Bumper
Sundance Custom's Front Bumper

Not cutting edge, unlike the Frankenlift? Come on! There's nothing revolutionary about the Frankenlift. As the name implies, it's simply a hodgepodge of parts piecemealed together. If you were to attempt something similar they'd say it wouldn't work. If you were to simply remove a spacer they'd claim it would affect the dynamics. I followed their recommendation, put a couple miles on it hoping it would miraculously "settle, " and ate up my axles in the process. It kills me because I new there was something wrong and others agreed. I called, heeded their advice and am now left with costly repairs and the need to purchase additional parts, i.e., JE Reel, Al's a-arms and JKS quick disconnect sway bar links. Will that solve my problem? I seriously don't know. I do know it will be a costly experiment and my money is better off spent in other places so I'm moving on.

All I'm saying is the Frankenlift is simply another approach at lifting the Liberty. I would not call it the ultimate lift. It is not simply superior to all others. I would not highly recommend it to FNGs. It too has it's shortcomings which should be addressed.

I submitted pics of my lift to All Js. I spoke with Quinn on 3 separate occasions. By his own admission over the phone, the measurements I provided him netted me over an inch more lift than on one he had sitting in his shop. I beat the hell out of the suspension to cycle it and get it to settle. I re-checked the install, I took it to 2 4x4 shops and something like 3 different front-end specialty shops. They all recommended I remove the lift before the axles go. I wanted to simply remove one of the poly spacers but was advised by All J's against it. Been there, done that, got the sticker! Drive on!

_________________
Failure is not an option!

What are you saying? So a FNG can't or won't enjoy the fact that the lift already comes pre-assembled? That its probably the most popular lift in this community and has some of the more knoledgeable Jeep enthusiasts buying it for their KJ?

I'm a FNG. This is MY first Jeep. I bought the lift because of all the wonderful things that I heard about it from this site - the better ride, the quality of the parts, the customer service from All-J.

I understand that you have had a problem with the Frankenlift. Nothing is perfect in this world. Stuff happens. But the overall majority of this group with the kit enjoy it and would probably buy it again. Don't discourage others to modify their Jeep based on just your experience with it.


Lets not hijack this thread anymore than it already has been....

_________________
LOST # 590
Not Jeepless anymore
97 TJ Sahara, 2.5" OME, SYE + CV driveshaft, JKS discos, some armor, some lights...

Skyjump,

It appears that you got one of the early Frankinlifts, and yes a few of them went out with low grade bolts. The few that went out like that have been addressed and we figured all were gone, but you stil have one Everything that has gone out in the last 2 years has had grade 8 bolts.

Let me know if you need anything else to fix your's up.

_________________
Heather

"Failure is when you watch other peoples' lives happen and forget to live your own."
AND
"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle; your kindness may be all he receives this day."

Fdezone...I am sorry for the experience that you had to go through. I know all about things not working the way they are supposed to and it sucks.

I based my cutting edge comment on the fact that the Frankenlift is a 2.5 lift unlike the Rusty's which is only 2. We play in a game of inches and that last 1/2-1 in. makes all the difference in the world because all the parts are pushed to the most extreme angle while remaining driveable and dependable. The Frankenlift is cutting edge. Unfortunately, it is not revoulutionary which is what we need. I feel bad for what you had to go through and I would be pissed also but I think it is the "variance" of which I spoke of earlier. For instance, we had a member in AZ (LOSTTJ) who first learn to wheel with a Liberty. We discovered on his KJ that the whole rear axle was built over to the right by about 1/2 inch. His exhaust assembly was built with it tweaked over to the left. Now, according to DC, everything was still within tolerances and when he drove it on the road everything was fine. However, after lifting the Jeep, we discovered that the u joint that couples the driveshaft to the rear diff would hit his muffler...clang, clang, clang. And that driveshaft spins pretty fast... When driving it was fine but hitting a bump or flexing would create this god awful noise. Because it was within spec pre-lift, they woulddn't fix it. Granted, a fix would be to get a new muffler but why would he have to buy a new muffler when no one else had the problem? Variances...

Maybe yours is tweaked just enough so that Rusty's or any other 2" lift will net you 2.5 instead of 2". I hope everything works out for you in the end. Hang in there bud! And good luck.

Dave

_________________
2005 Black CRD Sport
All J CRD Frankenlift with 500 fronts, Boulderbars, and Superskid
Kilby Gas Skid
Yukon Rear Axles
265/75 16 TrXus M/T's and Bridgestone Revo's
Fumoto Valve
Aero Turbine 2525
Rock Lizard Komodo Bumper
Sundance Custom's Front Bumper

Vent away, go for it............

I normally don't get involved in this but here goes.

You've made some claims here that I feel I must comment on. Yes your KJ was too tall. I have no idea why. I asked for pictures of you install months ago to try to help resolve. Something a phone call couldn't do. Never got them. If you have a problem then lets fix it. I prefere to fix it on the phone or back channel, but if you prefer to do it here let's go.

As far as the stabs you take at All J Products lets set a few records strait.
Yes Skyjumps bolts were wrong, I made that mistake over 2 years ago. Yes grade 8 bolts are suppossed to be there. I sent a few out like that, the mistake got caught and a few are still out there. I fixed all of the bolt issues that came up to date, that I was aware of. Skyjump, if you have any other issues please call, let's fix them.

C/V issues: I have personally installed over 100 KJ lifts in my shop. I know for a fact that the C/V axles hold up just fine. In fact some of the first Frankenlifts are still going. I have over 50,000 miles on some of those KJ's, including our KJ that my mom drives. In fact a couple of the Frankenlifted KJ's have over 80,000 miles on there Frankenlifts, some have more. So I am to believe a shop that is speculating that a c/v shaft will wear out, or go by the hundreds of KJ's that we have lifted and seen with our own eyes? Sure anyone can tear a boot during install and blame it on the Frankenlift. Been there done that got the shirt so to speak.

Any poor install job can result in a torn boot. Anybody can tear a c/v boot during install. Yes I have done it too. Again, not a Frankenlift problem. I'm not saying your problem was caused by this, but maybe there are other issues. Guess what, we've torn boots off-road too. Sticks and other debree can go right trough them. Okay so not goo enough? I've had stock KJ's come in with dry c/v's right from the factory. Again not our fault but happens. So how many c/v's have you actully worn out? Have you ever seen a KJ sagging so bad that the c/v run in the other direction with the same exact angle? How about when you steer? Ever see the angle of the c/v's then? Okay so should I believe a shop that has no or limited experience with KJ's gussing that they will go out in 6 months. Based on what?

You know, I'm really sorry that your lift wasn't the end all be all problem solver in your case, but it seems that your Jeep may have other issues going on. I wish you were closer, because I'm sure we could fix it. As far as a bum scoop in your words, you imply that we are passing on poor quality parts to people, sorry you feel that way. But hundreds of other customers would disagree. As far as us switching manufactures and release newer versions of the Frankenlift, yes that will continue. All versios have been tested. We have had to switch suppliers to get the quantities nessecary to ship orders. I ditched the Skyjacker rear springs because I couldn't get them fast enough, plus we had issues with shipping. The poly parts are also made to our specs now. There are only 3 companies involved. William and I assemble every strut that goes out as well. The struts that go out are good. If a KJ has another issue then it does. Jeeps can be all different. KJ's with bad ball joints are common.

Since you mentioned Al in this, he builds an awesome arm. Replaceable ball joints should have come from the factory. You do not need them to install a Frankenlift. But they are a great product, especially if your upper ball joints are bad.

As far as the BS flag goes, you are welcome to your opinions, but BS doesn't fly around here. I hear BS from the mis-imformed and internet rumor-mills. Most of which are not based on fact, but heresay and incorrect info. I heard from my brother's cousin's friend that Frankenlift sucks. I've had calls bashing stuff they never have ever seen in person.

_________________
Quinn " Macgyver" Thomas
KF6IQX
97 TJ "Mine after 10 years, I had to buy Heather a JK to get it"
1968 Jeep M715
2007 Rubicon Unlimited 4 door JK

Obviously. Thanks for acknowledging that fact.



I believe it was during our 2nd or 3rd conversation that you asked for "additional" pics. For the record, I posted pics on this forum right after the install. You wanted me to jack the vehicle, remove the tires and take additional pics to see if you could pin point the problem. It was "F"-ing winter time and I honestly didn't feel the need to entertain your request. The lift was installed properly and I took it to reputable shops in the area to verify my findings. Until that point I had done what you asked and measured everything, coil spacers, checked tags on springs, ensured the top plates where sitting flush, re-tightened every bolt, etc., etc., etc.



Let's.



Apparently, you missed at least one, maybe more. Did you post your findings on this forum or write or call your customers to advise them of the potential problem?



For a fact? That's not condescending.



Is that with the old system with Skyjackers and such or the new system? Have any of those KJs required new axles? Does your mom wheel?



Speculating? Is this lift so unique that no one else but All Js could possibly know what's acceptable and what is not? In my particular case, could a handful of guys be wrong and the almighty Quinn be right?



There's your answer, it has to be the customers fault! Sounds like Rock Krawler blaming Firebld for installing his 7-Up kit incorrectly.



I agree! And perhaps those other issues lie with the Frankenlift?



Okay, the extreme angle of the CV axle can also cause friction and tear the boot too. You keep addressing the torn boot. I need you to address the extreme angles of the CV axles.



So maybe it wasn't a poor install but a factory issue? Everything else must be inconceivable?



Just the one on my passenger side.



No. Is that relevant? I'm not sagging.



No. I'm usually in the driver's seat when I steer.



I don't know, maybe their vast experience with other IFS trucks?



Agreed, stemming from Frankenlift issues. I had no problems with it stock or later when I was running a 2" Teraflex BB. The problems came immediately after the Frankenlift install.



Me too, because then I wouldn't be so easily dismissed.



JJsKJ thought it was because the "SJ coils were found to sag over time."



Yeah, I remember you told me that because it was winter, maybe the cold weather was slowing down the break-in period for the poly spacers.



Not necessarily. Go back to top of page.



Agreed. That's why lifts may produce different results.



That explains everything.



But most would agree that Al's a-arms may help bring the vehicle back to specs.



No problem with my upper ball joints to date.



This is a first-hand account, not hearsay.

Check out these CV angles and tell me that they couldn't possibly have contributed to axle failure.

_________________
Failure is not an option!