EGR Disassembled w/Pictures.......NO 56K

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:47 pm

We could see so trace???

We could see some trace...

We could see no trace...

trac95ker · **Joined:** Tue May 23, 2006 3:02 pm **Posts:** 116

What would happen if you cut the plunger pin coming out of the solenoid and left it hooked up? Wouldn't that keep the valve closed and keep the exhaust out of the intake?

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:17 am

trac95ker wrote:

What would happen if you cut the plunger pin coming out of the solenoid and left it hooked up? Wouldn't that keep the valve closed and keep the exhaust out of the intake?

Throw codes. You need the spring pressure of the valve to back-seat the solenoid. The computer uses the solenoid to signal the position of the valve.

Jeger · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:41 am

RFCRD wrote:

trac95ker wrote:

What would happen if you cut the plunger pin coming out of the solenoid and left it hooked up? Wouldn't that keep the valve closed and keep the exhaust out of the intake?

Throw codes. You need the spring pressure of the valve to back-seat the solenoid. The computer uses the solenoid to signal the position of the valve.

Oh really, so we could just rig up a little unit to bolt that sucker to that has a spring in it for the solenoid to press on?

trac95ker · **Joined:** Tue May 23, 2006 3:02 pm **Posts:** 116

so you have to leave the solenoid active and some how keep the vave shut. So possibly removing the valve and blocking off the passage?

jaciii · **Joined:** Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:09 am **Posts:** 25

trac95ker wrote:

so you have to leave the solenoid active and some how keep the vave shut. So possibly removing the valve and blocking off the passage?

Correct me if I am wrong, but from the initial pics on this thread it appears the EGR is a "normally closed" device and the solenoid is required to "open" it. If I am correct we should be able to stop Exhaust Gas incursion by unplugging the EGR w/o the need for a block plate.

Of course, it might be easier (ECM-wise) to install a blockplate and leave the whole EGR assembley hangin' assuming there is no corresponding restriction initiatedwhen the EGR is signaled to open.

XJJeepGirl · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:15 am

Because of the spring action the default state of the EGR is closed. It requires power to the solenoid to open it. I'd say just unplug the solenoid and live with the cell being on all the time. Just plug it back when you go to the dealer.

litton · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:32 am

If one were to unplug the EGR, where would one do that....I haven't been even able to see mine yet with all the maze of hoses and stuff? If it this unplugged and the CEL light comes on.....wouldn't the code be for a failed EGR and if so, even if the code was not cleared before taking it in for service.......why would I care as long as it was plugged back in?

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:52 am

You are over simplifying the computer logic. The ECM is responding to multiple inputs from several sensors to control the engine. If one of the inputs are out of range or not responding, it will throw codes. This doesn't mean the engine won't run OK, it means one sensor is not telling the computer what it wants to hear relative to the imputs from other sensors. Thus it's not as simple as unplug the solenoid or block the flow to the valve.

First, one must find all the sensors that contribute data to this system and look at the entire computer logic. Then, design devices that mimic normal operating conditions or alter the operating software to work around the disabled device.

jaciii · **Joined:** Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:09 am **Posts:** 25

RFCRD wrote:

You are over simplifying the computer logic. The ECM is responding to multiple inputs from several sensors to control the engine. If one of the inputs are out of range or not responding, it will throw codes. This doesn't mean the engine won't run OK, it means one sensor is not telling the computer what it wants to hear relative to the imputs from other sensors. Thus it's not as simple as unplug the solenoid or block the flow to the valve.

First, one must find all the sensors that contribute data to this system and look at the entire computer logic. Then, design devices that mimic normal operating conditions or alter the operating software to work around the disabled device.

How about we unscrew the solenoid from the valve and ziptie it up out of the way somewhere. That oughta keep the CEL light and codes from setting. So long as there is nothing constricting intake air when the EGR is supposed to be open.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:36 pm

jaciii wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

You are over simplifying the computer logic. The ECM is responding to multiple inputs from several sensors to control the engine. If one of the inputs are out of range or not responding, it will throw codes. This doesn't mean the engine won't run OK, it means one sensor is not telling the computer what it wants to hear relative to the imputs from other sensors. Thus it's not as simple as unplug the solenoid or block the flow to the valve.

First, one must find all the sensors that contribute data to this system and look at the entire computer logic. Then, design devices that mimic normal operating conditions or alter the operating software to work around the disabled device.

How about we unscrew the solenoid from the valve and ziptie it up out of the way somewhere. That oughta keep the CEL light and codes from setting. So long as there is nothing constricting intake air when the EGR is supposed to be open.

1). You need the spring action of the valve to back-seat the solenoid (it doesn't have it's own return spring).
2). On most of these systems, the computer (back-door style) measures the EGR flow by a change (drop) in fresh air intake at the MAF sensor in the air cleaner housing. Personally believe the jimmy rig will eventually be fooling the MAF.

n3qik · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:48 pm

FYI on some codes:

With the EGR and ERG mixing valve disconnected:
P0403
P0299
P0401
P1140

With EGR exhaust input pipe blocked:
P0401

All these codes will set a CEL.

jaciii · **Joined:** Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:09 am **Posts:** 25

n3qik wrote:

FYI on some codes:

With the EGR and ERG mixing valve disconnected:
P0403
P0299
P0401
P1140

With EGR exhaust input pipe blocked:
P0401

All these codes will set a CEL.

But how does it run?

n3qik · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:31 pm

I ran both ways for one week each without any problems.

litton · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:02 pm

jaciii wrote:

n3qik wrote:

FYI on some codes:

With the EGR and ERG mixing valve disconnected:
P0403
P0299
P0401
P1140

With EGR exhaust input pipe blocked:
P0401

All these codes will set a CEL.

But how does it run?

What would those codes tell a tech if he saw them? As long as they don't say "Stupid Owner Mucking About" do we care?
I know this may be an oversimplification....but some times simple works.

n3qik · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:31 pm

The codes:
P0403 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Circuit Malfunction
P0401 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Flow Insufficient Detected
P1140 Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit
P0299. T/Super Charger Underboost

Could a tech say "Stupid Owner Mucking About" with theses codes. dout it. Unless you broke something.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:43 am

Has anyone taken an infrared thermometer and noted the temperature of the EGR valve vs. the coolant jacket. It would be interesting to queue the owners of failed EGR's to see if they allow at least 1 minute of idle time before shut-down.

A good experiment would be to take the temperature
1) after the vehicle is used and idle.
2) after shut down and no-idle
3) after shut down with at least 1 minute of idle.

The coolant jacket has been designed as a heat sink for protecting the EGR solenoid. If the engine is immediately shut down after use it may not give that heat built up in the EGR housing to dissipate and the solenoid may experience what is referred to as "heat soak" and shorten it's operational life.

The EGR valve I posted only had 3,000 miles on it from a '06 CRD. That's really not enough service time to have the EGR valve fail.

Ripster · **Posted:** Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:55 am

DZL_Lou if we are to get a block plate fashioned for later use with any type of workaround, we will
need an exact trace of the outline of the egr and inside mount area with holes. Do you have this
EGR in your possession to get the trace done? Better yet if you have it and we get it somewhere
that will machine the block plates. Let me know.

BioJeep · **Posted:** Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:57 pm

Quote:

Has anyone taken an infrared thermometer and noted the temperature of the EGR valve vs. the coolant jacket. It would be interesting to queue the owners of failed EGR's to see if they allow at least 1 minute of idle time before shut-down.

That's a very good idea.

KJMedic · **Posted:** Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:09 pm

I have some work to do at the Firehouse on Monday. We hae one of those handy dandy camara's that will tell you the temp. I will check it out on Monday. (If I remember I am getting old. :oops:

)

EGR Disassembled w/Pictures.......NO 56K

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