Fiberglass project

freetolio · **Joined:** Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:47 am **Posts:** 38

I have decided to create a pretty monstrous setup in the liberty with triple subs and double amps in a false floor configuration for maximal space utilization. The enclosure is split into two units that match the seat split with each unit being removable and independent from the other.

http://www.bargainbintravel.com/kjproject

LAST UPDATE: 11/2/06

JMLoughrey · **Posted:** Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:28 am

in all honesty, the design is great, love the idea and the orginality of it.

I cannot stress enough though how @$#% up its going to sound with 2 different subs and 2 different amps.

You're going to get two totally different sounds out of setups, its not a good idea to mix and match 3 subs and 2 amps, its not worth it.

If you are dead set on this, i would highly suggest tuning your gains with a DMM and take your time, if you do it quick it'll sound terrible.

freetolio · **Joined:** Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:47 am **Posts:** 38

Well, I don't know if I was exactly clear. I am going to have two subs mated to one amp (identical subs), and a third, different sub, mated to its own amp. So no two non-identical subs will share enclosed air or amp power.

For now, I am using crappy equipment. The two subs are 1000/500W DHD brand, and the single sub is an orion cobalt 400/200W (okay quality). The DHD's are going to run off a legacy amp(1800W peak 2ohm), and the orion will run off a boss(600W peak 4ohm). None of this stuff is too great. My preamp outputs on the head unit aren't even designed for a sub, so I was going to have one amp feeding off the front channel and one off the rear.

My plan was to simply disconnect the power from one amp while tuning the other and vice versa.

Thanks for the props on the idea though. I really don't know if I will even be able to hear the Cobalt over the other two. Do you think it just won't be top quality, or do you think it will be distorted and horrible?

JMLoughrey · **Posted:** Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:37 am

Distorted for the win.

With a fiberglass enclousure, especially something like that, measuring air space accuratly will be a challenge. If you're looking to go into a switched setup where you can use two subs with one amp, then flick a switch and use the single sub with a different amp it may not be that bad. Chances are you'll realize that one of the two sucks and you'll continuously use the other one.

Orion makes a desent product, granted the cobalt subs are entry level but they are still a better sub then the DHDs. (i love orion)

Give it a shot though, your tastes in car audio are different then mine, what sounds bad to me, may not too you, worst case scenario you wasted some hours of work and some fiberglass. Its the experience, and the effort you spend on it that'll make it all worth while.

freetolio · **Joined:** Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:47 am **Posts:** 38

If that is how it works out, I'll sell the one I don't like on ebay. I can surely undercut the $450 kj thunderform.

sqliberty · **Joined:** Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:08 pm **Posts:** 207

looks like it will be pretty cool, keep us updated with pictures. when you are done look into the cargo rack from All J's. I did that with mine to still carry stuff.

freetolio · **Joined:** Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:47 am **Posts:** 38

I'll look into that, it seems like a good option to help me cram more cargo back there after the install.

You seriously have the slickest install I've seen in a liberty, I love your power management board! Not to mention the exterior modifications.

freetolio · **Joined:** Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:47 am **Posts:** 38

I just updated the project page.

JMLoughrey · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:11 pm

please please please tell me you got more then just one can of fiberglass.

freetolio · **Joined:** Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:47 am **Posts:** 38

I only have that single gallon can of resin at the moment, I have to wait for more to arrive before I can continue the layup. I have plenty of the woven rovings. I probably used about 1/9 of my supply of it. It is starting to get colder here in central VA, so I am probably going to need extra hardener. I'll keep this thread updated with the status of the work and the materials.

I will be able to work much faster once I do initial layup on the other side and can pop the molds out. All the interior protection takes a lot of time (and I have to buy more dropcloth and coveralls), and the ventilation sucks inside the enclosed vehicle to the point that removing the goggles stings my eyes.

However, I won't take so much time doing the actual layup now that I know how to do it effectively.

I am a little worried that it may be very difficult to sand glass composed of woven rovings. This only concerns me regarding the exposed portion of the bottom that will face out when the door is opened and the portion that will face out when the seats are down.

My plan with the top of the box is to position a square wooden frame
on dowels glued to the glassed bottom. Then I will glass over that frame to adhere it to the bottom part, and finally I will screw pre-cut MDF board down to that frame. I may use additional fiberglass afterwards for sealing. Terminal cups will be mounted topside in the MDF. I will finish the MDF with some paint, or maybe grey vinyl.

freetolio · **Joined:** Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:47 am **Posts:** 38

Reasons:
I have 5 gallons of resin that is shipping as hazmat from central CA, AKA the complete other side of the country.
The temp is dropping like a rock, and the weekly forecast has lows in the 20's. And not even high-dollar, low-temp epoxy can handle that kind of chillyness.

A coworker has offered me time in his heated garage for continued work, so that may come in handy for the next steps. I ordered up chop mat, and a lot of hardner. Also, I got a measurer designed specifically for used with MEKP hardners so it will be more precise this time.

freetolio · **Joined:** Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:47 am **Posts:** 38

I am going to continue the work this weekend, UPS said my supplies will get here Friday. And we'll have temps in the high 60's.

On top of that, I ordered some 9007 6000K HID mechanical (to avoid the ~2 sec delay when switching) hi/lo's for the headlights which I will install whenever they get here from China.
No they are not retrofits.
I know about the legality issues and that a projector housing is considered superior.
I am gonna re-aim the housings and settle with that unless I get pulled over or blind everyone I drive by.

freetolio · **Joined:** Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:47 am **Posts:** 38

I glassed the other half, pictures coming soon. The single layer is a bit weak and flexible, but I think I can pop it out if I am careful. I cannot emphasize how much work will speed up once I get the form out of the car.

I tried working with chop mat, but it was much more difficult to work with and impossible to use on vertical and curved surfaces. So, I would recommend woven mat for corners and quick building. Woven mat happily sticks to surfaces that are worse than vertical

However, I will be integrating chop mat tomorrow because it seems to make for a denser final product, and the woven rovings leave some holes unless you dump resin on it.

BTW, the HID's look fantastic. But they are only doing lo beam, so I am trying to negotiate something with the seller. I'll have pics of those soon too.

freetolio · **Joined:** Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:47 am **Posts:** 38

I successfully removed the forms from the trunk, but they are weak and flexible.

The test region where I used some chop mat to reinforce the first portion I completed came out rock solid. I think that two layers of chop mat will strengthen things up adequately. On the downside, I am going to need a hell of a lot of body filler to smooth the exterior with all of the voids left by the woven rovings. I am only going to finish all parts of the box except those facing out towards the side of the vehicle, and the bottoms of course.

kkkustom · **Joined:** Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:33 am **Posts:** 160

How to measure the air space in fiberglass box. Fill it up with packaging peanuts, lightly dont cram them in there. once full find/make a small cardboard or MDF box with one cubic foot internal. fill the one cubic foot box up with the peanuts from the fiberglass one, and keep count. that will tell you what your airspace is. from the looks of what you are doing, if you go to the middle of the rear seats high, you will have around 3.5-4.5 cubic feet. I am guessing.

Chop mat tips. if you cant get it to stick you are using way too much resin. I take a wide 2 inch black throw out brush, plastic bristles not foam... and brush on some resin to the surface I want to reinforce. not so much that it drips all over, just enough to wet the surface. then take a wide plastic spreader, lay or shoot if you have the gun

just enough that it stick and partially soak through the strands, then take the spreader and apply just enough resin to keep it slightly moist. If you do it correctly you can build it up nicely in one flash. (one flash means buy the time the resin cures). If you are still having problems with the mat falling off, take a piece of fiberglass cloth slightly bigger than the area you are chop matting, and lay that over your chop mat. Then you can take the spreader and squeegy out the excess resin and it will stick for sure.

you could do that whole thing, tub which you already made and fleece the top in one gal resin, maybe one and a half. resin is not what makes it strong, too much and it is just extra weight, and accually takes away strength.

kkkustom · **Joined:** Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:33 am **Posts:** 160

I still dont fully understand what your top is going to look like... you are going to just take a mdf board and cut three 12" holes out and 2 areas for the amps? I see 2 problems with that... not enough room to lay 3 12's side by side or even in a U shape accross the back of the jeep and still have room for 2 decent sized amps.

and the second reason I dont like that is that the whole set up will just look like a normal box back there with a flat top.

I would cut 3 12" rings out. float them where you like how it looks, and position them on the dowls and attach it to the fiberglass tub you made. More tips on the rings later. Also I would make rectangle pieces of mdf for the amps to sit on. and float them on dowls where you see fit. This will make a nice 3D top and look alot better than a flat board! Yes it will be a lot more work but will look alot better.

Once you position the rings where you like them, you need to staple fleece to the whole thing. Stretch the fleece over the rings and on to the sides of the tub. Once the fleece is laid out over the box, what you see is what your box will look like.

Tips on the rings. Make the rings about 1/2" bigger than the outside dia. of the speakers rubber seal/trim ring. Router a 1/4" in and 1/4" deep groove around the entire ring. this is where you want to staple the fleece to. Becasue once you add resin to the fleece, and body filler you will have built up the surface to about a 1/4" making it flush to the top of the ring. you dont want to just lay the fleece over the top mounting surface or the rings and start adding resin, becasue no matter how good you sand it wont let the speaker lay flat on the surface once you are done. The same goes for the amp pieces so they sit nice and flush to the surface.

Once the fleece is stretched out and stapled down, and looks EXACTLY how you want the box to look, it is time to add resin. What I do is take another wide plastic throw out brush and mix up about a cup of resin. Brush on enough resin, but not too much that it completely soaks the fleece, and sags the material. Fleece will soak up resin like a spunge, so be carefull, this is where you can waste a lot of material. You want to add enough to make a stiff surface. once the first coat flashes, you can go back and add another coat to uniformally soak the fleece. Dont worry about soaking it all the way to the inside, beacuse once this dries you have to fiberglass the INSIDE for strenght any way. Fiberglass is for strenght, it goes on the inside, body filler is for looks it goes on the outside. The fleece outside will leave a surface much like a golf ball, lots of bumps. Apply just enough body filler to fill in all the tiny low spots and just high enough to skim over the peaks. remember the less you add, the less you will have to sand!

I am tired of typing, so feel free to ask me questions about any of this. I have had alot of practice!

freetolio · **Joined:** Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:47 am **Posts:** 38

Hey kkkustoms, thanks for the advice. I have been lazy with the pics, but the project is halted since I removed the forms. The weather here is in the 20-40 range lately. So, I am gonna have more time to plan it. I think I will try to mount the amps flush. But I'll have to think about the rest.

By the way, the HID bulbs didn't quite work out. They are bright with a wonderful color, but the pattern isn't right with some notable glare spots. I think the hi/lo mechanism may be wired backward, but I'll check that as I unhook them to try them out for other uses...the bulbs are funky enough that they can fit into 9007 or 9004. So I'm about to rig up some HID fogs!

Fiberglass project

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