OK, where can I find upgrades for my weak KJ IFS? I'm about to replace the upper control arms for thr third time in a year! have a 2.5" spacer lift and have had trouble ever since the lift. Anyone make a arms with uniballs???

If you get Al's upper control arms (which come with the greasable ball joints), and then get MOOG heavy duty greasable lower ball joints, you've done about all you can. The stock upper control arm is crap, and you need greasable ball joints to not be paranoid about any ball joint failure. The lower control arm is pretty heavy duty, I've been told. I've had a few direct hits from rocks on it, and they don't look that beaten up at all.

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Al's upper a-arms will do the trick from what people have said. However your problem may also have to do with the type of spacer lift especially if you are getting upper ball joint contact on the springs. Do a search for OTT and you will see how certain types of spacers cause problems.

If the front of your kit looked like this then the spacer is the cause of the problems



The picture below is an example of the type of problem it causes. The upper ball joint contacts the spring and ruins it. The picture below is actually of a different lift that had similar problems. It came fitted with an additional lower bump stop to prevent the contact, but it was too small.

Yep, my Frankenlift trashed my upper ball joints in short order. That's why I ripped it off. CV failures, CV boot failures, upper ball joint contact, zero suspension sag that is downright dangerous on choppy paved roads, etc. There are WAY too many backyard engineers without proper training or experience making stuff for the libby.

Before buying a lift I would suggest you ask to see the credentials (degrees, work experience, etc) of the mechanical engineer who designed it and the CAD drawings of it. My guess is 90% of the companies that make stuff for the libby won't be able to provide either. Maybe they will be able to provide a bar napkin with a drawing drawn by a high school drop out. But I suspect that may even be asking too much for some of these "designs".

I dont know why you had such problems with your Frankenlift. With your lift criteria, I assume you're stock?

Well, I will say that the "Frankenlift" was designed after a number of different combinations. It is still one of the best options available for the KJ. Two things that affect the success of any lift are:

1) Letting the vendor know what your problem is with a product. I know that AllJs will work with clients to come up with a solution as best they can. If you just discount this process of feedback, you are getting only 50% value IMHO.

2) The other thing to note is that different KJ's react differently to lifts. I know it sounds wierd, but some KJs get a 1" more lift from the same parts as others. Different KJs actually come with different springs ( rates ect. ) . Sometimes lifts need to be taylored to a specific KJ.

Lifting is not an exact science. CAD designs can make the parts identical, but it won't make each KJ identical. The other part of the problem is the KJ itself...ie...Small Wheelwells, tight clearances for the UCA, inherent weakness of the "OEM" BallJoints, ect. Point is there are many factors to cinsider and what works for one might not work for another.

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Here are the struts when I pulled them off my truck. This was after less than 100 miles of paved road driving. It was actually probably less than 50 miles. Let's play a game called "count the suspension contact". Look at the springs and count the number of places that there was spring contact. I count at least 8 places on the spring on the left and 5 places on the spring on the right. Yes, a degreed mechanical engineer using CAD would have never have built something that was this blantantly wrong. The interference between the spring and the suspension would have been caught on the computer.

Old Man Emu is the best lift so I've been told. I would have bought it but it runs about $880 for everything. It sounds like your problem is just perpetuating itself and you should look at a full strut lift instead of spacers.

There's also the possiblity that something was installed wrong or has tons of play...

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Mine doesnt do that and I've put about 400 miles on it in the past two days. Have you talked with the crew at All Js about the issues? Theyve been awesome to work with and ensured that mine was installed right. Plus, I'm gonna beg to differ about the whole CAD thing. Engineers designed this IFS in the first place, and look how it worked out. Id rather go with people who have tested it and know what works.

Your's doesn't do that because All-J's applied their "engineered" fix to their "engineering" problem. They took a hacksaw and loped off the poorly designed bump stop and then used hose clamps to clamp rubber plumbing parts to your struts to prevent your upper ball joints from beating themselves to death on your springs.

Send me some pictures of their fix (hose clamps) I'll run it by some of my mechanical engineer friends and get some comments for you.

Edit: Actually I just realized we hijacked someone elses thread on an unrelated subject. So I appologize. Just so we can get back on topic I will go ahead and concede that the lifts that experience "mild spring contact" and other problems such as "mild CV failure" and "mild CV boot failure", zero suspension sag, road handing problems, etc are very well engineered by some of the best mechanical engineers in the world. Anyone who experiences these problems obviously has a vehichle that is out of tolerance. Back to your regularly scheduled program...

The issue detroit doc mentions is common with some recent frankenlifts. They went to a new style of incorporating the bump stop in the lower poly spacer. It wasn't tall enough and caused problems with upper ball joint and the a-arms contacting the spring. Just like detriot_doc is talking about.

Here is an example:

This is the newer version of the frankenlift. The lower bumpstop is now built into the daystar spacer on the bottom. Good idea, but it dosen't come up high enough to prevent UBJ contact with the spring. At least not in this case.



Here is a picture of the older version. Notice the red bumpstop. It comes up height enough to prevent the spindle and UBJ from touching the spring.


Once this problem became know, Quinn went back to the old style strapped on bumpstops that work. That is why desert_kj and most others do not have problems. The built in bumpstop was only used for a little while and stopped once it was deemed ineffective. Say what you want about old style bumpstop not being cosmetically attractive or slapped together, but that fact is it works and has proven worked for a long time.

According to Quinn:

These pictures are really disturbing. I've never seen so many 'bandaid' solutions in my life. I would never put anything like that on one of my cars.

Pure spring lift and the 8mm thick top plate is as much as you should go. I clevis lift is unadvisable too.

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I've had my Frankenlift on and off road for over a year now with absolutely no problems at all. Although, the weight of my bull bar and winch probably helps the situation.

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Honestly the frankenlift should be sold with a set of custom upper control arms.

Or lower it's over all lift. I got right at 4" of lift in front not counting tires. (still the same after 9 months) when the lift is advertised at 2.5 (for pre lowered) But it's really 3.5 for the rest of us.


Don't get me wrong... I love my lift. But the frankenlift is not without it's own problems. I'll probably need new CV's, seals, and shaft bushings within the next few years.

I also had to add a set of spring isolators to the rear to level it out.

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In theory, everybody should get the same amount of lift between the chassis and control arms whether or not their Liberty was pre-lowered. The only things that should change this measurement are spring stiffness and vehicle weight.

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The suspension is fairly strong on the libby. The upper control could use a better design so that the joint could be replaced or greased.. The balljoints are really the only weak point in the suspension..

Nice discussion on the Franken lift. I really do not see the issue with the upper balljoint bumpstop? Seems to work just fine..

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The problem is it wasn't designed on a computer by an official smart person.

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"official smart person"???

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OK, I do not have the contact problem mentioned. I'm using the Daystar lift, it does a good job of keeping the joints off the springs. Are there aftermarket arms available somewhere???

marc,

check out rusties offroad. they will be shiping on the second week of Dec. will be aval. in stock length, 2" lifted, adjustable, and adjustable with heim joints at the uni-body. around $350.00

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