Wet air filter

retmil46 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:58 pm

Haven't got any more data to add on how this mod is performing for this week. Been having too much fun driving the "Panzerwagen". :lol:

Might have 20 hp and 100 ft/lbs less than the Jeep, but it'll blow the friggin doors off that CRD. :twisted:

That's how it oughta be, takes a diesel to beat a diesel.

longarm · **Posted:** Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:45 pm

Ripster, nice looking rig you've got there. Your engine looks clean enough to eat off of. I am in the process of detailing mine out. It's in the garage for a few days all taped up getting seal coated and detailed. I love a clean engine.

Ripster · **Posted:** Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:33 pm

And the final part, the flap, had to order a new one from a 2003 Liberty
part #1-53013509AA $12.95 supplied the push tab body plug and looks
stock

alljeep · **Posted:** Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:29 am

I would really like to see any engineering/design data from DC as to why they changed the air intake, because your solution looks great and DC already had these parts to work with right off the shelf with no redesign required. I'd say the "cold" air intake effect is minimal while driving since it's scooping it in at the hood seam now.

We all know the turbo will suck as much as it needs reguardless of the opening size. I've been offroad with the Midwest LOST club and have come to realize that if I enter any water and get it over the bumper I'll end up killing the CRD without this mod. :shock:

RFCRD · **Posted:** Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:16 am

alljeep wrote:

I would really like to see any engineering/design data from DC as to why they changed the air intake, because your solution looks great and DC already had these parts to work with right off the shelf with no redesign required. I'd say the "cold" air intake effect is minimal while driving since it's scooping it in at the hood seam now.

One thing to consider with the Liberty is the relatively flat front end. With the way the seals are placed (on the underside of the hood), I would bet there is a potent ram air effect through the chanel to that intake. It wouldn't take very much road speed to start packing air with that flat front end. This is a decent intake design, can't understand why they would have switched to the straight tube design. You would have to be pinching pennies pretty hard to make case for it costing less to build.

TDI4BY · **Joined:** Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:56 pm **Posts:** 644

I just had to add this, A stock CRD would suck water in a few of these pics..... Water fording....

http://www.jeepkj.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3722&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

alljeep · **Posted:** Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:40 am

TDI4BY wrote:

I just had to add this, A stock CRD would suck water in a few of these pics..... Water fording....

http://www.jeepkj.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3722&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

That's what I'm worried about! It's not the overall depth of water because I don't really want to be hood high for too long. But, when you drop the front wheels down into a creek bed, or mud hole, it's that nose down angle - when entering the water obstacle - that will just kill my CRD! For a few seconds I can easily see water at least half way up the grill (and over my stock air tube intake) while entering a creek bed to cross it.

Ripster · **Posted:** Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:38 pm

Its a cheap mod, a used 2002 complete box with everything but the air deflector, less than $100 invested.
And I plan this winter covering up the grill area to help with heating as I have done with other diesels and
without this mod I would be covering up the area where the CRD would try to get air. :!:

GilaMonster · **Posted:** Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:22 pm

Ripster wrote:

Its a cheap mod, a used 2002 complete box with everything but the air deflector, less than $100 invested.
And I plan this winter covering up the grill area to help with heating as I have done with other diesels and
without this mod I would be covering up the area where the CRD would try to get air. :!:

Ripster, first off, thank you very much for posting those comparison pictures. As they say, they are definately worth one thousand words, or 15 pages of posts.
I wanted to know if the gas v6 version air box has the drain holes in the bottom like the crd air box. Can you remember, or take a quick look?
Also, I understand where the horn goes for the box inlet, but I'm just curious, is the weather seal on the hood a direct obstruction for air flow? I believe the direct airflow to the intake horn is the seam between the hood and the grill area. Is that correct?

Thanks for the information, GilaMonster

Ripster · **Posted:** Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:47 pm

Yes there are drain holes, and it fits exactly with the same feet into rubber grommets.
There is plenty of space there for air and the deflector, as far as I can tell deflects all
the air or rain that would come from around the headlight for whatever reason.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:47 pm

GilaMonster wrote:

....is the weather seal on the hood a direct obstruction for air flow? I believe the direct airflow to the intake horn is the seam between the hood and the grill area. Is that correct?

If the weather seal on the underside of the hood is like mine, one seals across the top of the core support, the other across the top of the grill. With the hood closed, this arrangement makes a 3-sided duct with the bottom side open above the front side of the radiator/CAC/AC condensor (above the electric fan). Should get ample amounts of clean, cold & dry air.

GilaMonster · **Posted:** Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:09 pm

Thank you all for the information. Looks like I will try sourcing one and see what results I get.

marauderer · **Posted:** Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:32 pm

oldnavy wrote:

The intake diameter is only 3 1/4 inches? I would have guessed it at 4 inches and that would have made a big difference. I think I will check the CRD when the wife gets back from grocery store and just measure the opening to be sure. I have had the tube out a couple of time to put the screen over the end a reinstall, and it just seem bigger then 3 1/4 inches.

On my CRD it has a flap like thing in front of the intake so as to maybe deflect incoming water or such, but it looks to be rather poor design compared to V6 gas intake. It looks a lot like the intake on my old MB diesels and to some degree our '02 VW Jetta TDI. Let us known how the V6 replacemt works out.

On the CRD air box where the sensor is the od is only 3.00". I haven't taken the plastic snorkel off and checked the Torbo intake but, I will be suprised if it is over 3.00" and would imagine it closer to 2.5"

retmil46 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:46 am

After about 3000 miles, and driving home thru the wild weather from a line of storms that spawned a couple of tornados locally the other night, decided I'd best check to see how the V6 airbox mod and air filter were performing.

I was quite pleased with what I found. No evidence of any water, no accumulated dust, dirt, or bugs. Housing was nearly as clean as when I installed it. NAPA/Wix air filter still looked as if it had just came out of the box.

BioJeep · **Posted:** Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:29 pm

OK, I'm definitely getting this done ASAP! My relatively new filter is already filthy & our rainy season has begun. Thanks for the report.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Mitchell, were you able to find the WIX filter locally? I'm coming up on 8K on my filter in my V6 airbox and it still looks good and clean - far, far better than the stock airbox ever did. Never could go past 5K on the stock airbox before the filter was solid black. Still dry after heavy rain driving. I don't even bother to check for water anymore.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:42 am

Ranger1 wrote:

Mitchell, were you able to find the WIX filter locally? I'm coming up on 8K on my filter in my V6 airbox and it still looks good and clean - far, far better than the stock airbox ever did. Never could go past 5K on the stock airbox before the filter was solid black. Still dry after heavy rain driving. I don't even bother to check for water anymore.

It's a NAPA Gold filter, made by Wix. Picked it up at a local NAPA store, they have them in stock. Same P/N as Wix with an extra digit tacked on the front for NAPA. Looks identical to the picture on the Wix website, same specs, etc.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Thanks, picked one up this morning. In comparison, it looks to have nearly twice as many pleats as the factory filter. Price is close to the dealer - $12.54. Like to have a spare in case in the parts bin.

BioJeep · **Posted:** Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:25 pm

Quote:

In comparison, it looks to have nearly twice as many pleats as the factory filter.

I counted them both...

Forget now exactly but the stock had ~70 & the Wix ~110. Looked equivalent otherwise.

greiswig · **Posted:** Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:13 pm

Wanted to bump this back up to the visible side, with a theory attached.

I think there might be more of a problem than just a wet air filter associated with this poor design. Our MAF sensor is a hot-wire type sensor. Seems to me that, even with the filter there, inhaling water will result in atomized water getting past the filter. A hot wire MAF uses deltas in temperature to change the resistance of the wire, and anytime water comes in contact with the wire it will cool it down much lower than it would if the water droplets weren't there.

So the net result would be that the computer thinks there's a lot more air coming in than there really is. You might think this would be a good thing: fool the ECU into dumping more fuel in, and you'll get more power! Since there isn't a throttle butterfly on a diesel, the same amount of air is ingested for a given RPM, and the only thing you vary to change power is the amount of fuel injected. But I suspect that the water may cause very rapid fluctuations in the MAF readings, and even if it is consistent, the ECU isn't getting other engine parameters correct because of the faulty MAF reading.

It rains occasionally in Oregon. I have noticed before that I seem to get worse mileage when it is cold and rainy than when it is warm and dry. The "cold" part doesn't make a lot of sense to me, since the MAF should be able to adjust for that. But we don't have a lot of cold, dry weather here. So that experiment will have to wait. But I did take the filter off to admire the collection of water in the filter housing after a recent mild rain. So I verified that the thing is trying hard to inhale water.

I just took a trip over Thanksgiving, but after removing only the hose that connects the filter housing to the front of the grill. I can't seem to find a V-6 filter assembly in a local boneyard, but I knew I was heading into some wet weather on the Oregon coast. It has actually been too wet to expect the water in the bottom of the housing to evaporate, so I don't know whether what is there is just remnant, or it is still inhaling water. But my mileage went up by 2-3 MPG on the highway relative to other recent trips. This is using fuel from the same source.

Wet air filter

Who is online