Lift experimentation

Jeepin Al · **Posted:** Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:15 pm

Well over this long weekend I escaped to the old garage to do some much needed maintance, and experiiment with the rear suspension. I scraped up one of my rear arms rear bad, and ripped the boot, so I needed to "play" with the rear anyway.

I was very jealous of Chris's (WVOIIIIIIIO) Skyjacker suspension we put in a couple of weeks ago. So I went out and ordered the rear springs and a set of Edelbrock IAS shocks. In addition, I got a Daystar 2.5 inch flex joint. The rear diff balljoint just after 10k miles was shot again. So I took the flex joint and welded to the rear upper "tri-link" the thingy I call the boomerang. I reinforced the opening and welded the joint (which is grease-able and rebuildable) such that it hangs below the boomerang, thus leveling the or back pitching the boomerang. Take a look at the angle of the boomerang on your lifted Libertys. (Side note: The front consists of 1 inch Daystar, 2.5" Rusty springs (they have sagged), and a 3/4 inch block above the strut assembly. I took out the clevis lift, it put me over 4" and made my CV joints very unhappy!)

Than I took the springs and installed with the 2.5 inch Daystar pucks I had in the Liberty. WOW! I had 38.5 inches of clearance between the center of the rear fender flare and the ground. (alsmost six inches of rear lift. Took it out for a quick drive around.....vibration at 40 to 50 mph. Interesting!? Well, I didn't want to vibrate my drivetrain to death, so I took out an inch (cut down a set of pucks I had laying around. Now I have 37.25 inches. Still vibrates! So tonight, I cut up the remaining portion of the pucks placed them on the top of the spring (1 inch thickness) reinstalled everything, now I clear 36 inches. I haven't taken it out for a test drive, that will be on the way to work tomorrow.

I am wondering, do any of you think the new Daystar joint is transmitting vibration. I wouldn't think so, since the original rubber bushing are still in the end points of the "tri-link". I am figuring that it's the drive shaft.

Why do you think the Jeep engineers designed that long output shaft and put a balancer on it. Couldn't they just balance the drive shaft and put a double u-joint in front like they did years ago? I wonder if anyone makes a short tail or slip yoke elimintion for the 242 (I think that's what I have, it has part time and full time 4wd).

Yes, I did have too much time on my hands this weekend!! However, I missed one of the largest 50's car shows, but I did finally get my son's CJ chasis all welded together.

Any input or comments or what do you think? Replace the rear drive shaft and put the 6 inch lift back in? I have about 3.5 inches in the front, and with the six it looks like a stock Liberty (rake wise) just a lot higher!

And by the way, I measured the steering knuckle on a 2005 Liberty, they are one inch taller than the 2002. I have my budding ordering a set, next the front end and 4+ inches......mad you say......yes I be :lol:

Thanks for reading the ramblings of a future ol' fart (or am I already there?)

Al

Fouros · **Posted:** Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:07 pm

with vibrations you would probably need to drop the tfer case a little, Like they do on Lifted Tj's

uvalax236 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:52 pm

If you can get 4+ inches of clearance and have 33's with no problems...Im seriously going to have to talk to you about the same lift on my KJ then! :lol:

FreedomKJ · **Posted:** Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:17 am

Keep up the good work Al! You're definitely one of our more "creative" members.

Oh, and I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe the SYE kits for the 231 will also work on the 242.

I know Tom Woods makes a kit for the 231 and 242. It's not on his site though, so you'll have to call for info.

KaJunKJ · **Posted:** Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:26 am

what did you do to get 4+ iches of lift cuz i want it. I have 31's now but i want 33's. also about how much did it cost to get that high.

CarNutCertifies · **Posted:** Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:02 am

i wanna see pics!

Jeepin Al · **Posted:** Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:07 pm

I was so busy welding and fabing that I didn't think of having my son take some pictures. Right now the Liberty is sitting at 36.25 inches above the garage floor to the center of the rear fender flare. I should have taken pictures of it at 38.5 inches. It looked really cool! From the back, it didn't look like a Liberty it was too high to be a Liberty!

As soon as I get all the bugs worked out there is lots of noise still, I think its the ends of the shocks banging around I will either change the tube in the bushing or get larger dia. bolts for the bottom of the shocks. The tops I will need to change the bushing tubes to a smaller diameter. I will post the mods if the group will let me in the tech section. Just beware this was a real shade tree mechanic modification, using scraps of iron and other goodies laying around the garage.

I will need to talk to Tom Woods. I met him at 2004 SEMA, hell of a nice guy! He didn't chase me away, when I started to talk about the Liberty! He said that he would even make a drive shaft for my 2-wheel drive hot rod!

Keep the comments coming in, this is the way we all learn!

My first real boss, my mentor, said if you don't learn something everyday from me its time to move on and find a new teacher! You need to learn something new everyday, no matter how contrite. (he never really taught me how to spel!).

Al

Calvin56 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:59 am **Posts:** 345

Jeepin Al wrote:

I I got a Daystar 2.5 inch flex joint.
The rear diff balljoint just after 10k miles was shot again. So I took the flex joint and welded to the rear upper "tri-link" the thingy I call the boomerang.
Al

Wow, you are doing some impressive stuff between your a- arms and this!!

If you have some time, I could use some edjumaction (I'm pretty suspension illiterate, but want to learn):

What is the Daystar flex joint?
Rear diff balljoint?

How do/will you get your CV joints to hold up with the lift in front? Will the new knuckles move the assembly down, or just push the suspension down like the spacers?

I would LOVE to get a few more inches of clearance, I've been testing my Superskid and boulderbars wayyyy too much

Jeepin Al · **Posted:** Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:08 pm

For the front, and I think this what superlift is doing(?):

I am collecting parts right now. I am looking for the undercarriage that holds all the front goodies. I looked at the Liberator real close, and it looked like they used the knuckles from a 2005 Grand, and moved the entire carriage down by 2 inches, thus pushing the entire assembly down including the steering. Then they welded 2 inches of pipe to the top of the strut mount, so you didn't need to change the strut assembly. So as soon as I get my hands on a good used undercarriage, I will be looking at a welding up some 2x2 steel tubing to the top of it and move the motor mounts to the new steel tube. This will give you 2 inches of lift. Using the lift kits on the market, say a 2.5 inch kit, this should net you around 4-4.5 inches of lift. The gound clearance will not increase, but it will allow taller tires to increase the gound clearance. While I am experimenting I will be trying either fit the steel cased Grand/Commander dana 30 or the dana 44 into the mix, so we can run bigger tires without blowing the front diff.

I am also looking to add a plate to the top of my upper a-arms and either placing an air-bag system on it or dual shock system, eliminating the clevis and strut assembly. The a-arms as the sit now do not take much stress, but put the shocks or air bag on them them they will take the load of the lower arm. They will need to be reinforced.

I daydream too much, and most of this will be a winter project.

Al

KJ04 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:20 pm

Keep dreaming Al, and maybe someday we'll all be buying from Jeepin Al's.

In the meantime my Liberty's sitting with a blown housing, and I'll be Da#$ed if I'm putting another stock one back in it.

Calvin56 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:59 am **Posts:** 345

So how much does a new stock one cost? I'd hate to waste the money on a new one with the options (few) we have on the horizon.

Jeepin Al · **Posted:** Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:36 pm

Still feel bad about your blown front end. What is really bad is the fact that there was one on e-bay that either didn't sell or sold for around $150 out of a wrecked unit. Sorry next time I see stuff like this I will post it.

I have a new stock case laying around the garage with a set of new 4.10 gears I was planning to put in my Liberty figuring my has been stressed enough over the years. You can see in the casting all the casting fractures for less than a better term. It's not a really nicely cast piece. I saw this in the old motorcycle engines I worked on when I was a kid.

I am hoping that I will be fitting in the newer dana 30 or 44 this winter. I will post pictures and step by step how you can do it. My buddy who got me the new stock case at the beginning of the year is now working on getting me a new Grand case to look at as well as the 05 steering knuckles. I will also post pictures of the Daystar flex joint and a view of it installed.

In addition, I will scan the section of the manual showing the rear ball joint, to show all where it is and how it connects to the diff. Just give me a couple of days.

Al

YJBeef · **Posted:** Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:52 pm

Sounds impressive!! Just out of curiosity, how does the stock steering hold up to all this?

Jeepin Al · **Posted:** Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:06 am

So, as I drove the Liberty around, more and more noise came from the rear. At first I thought it was the springs rubbing on the spring perches.

I took it all apart on Friday night into all day Saturday. I found that the Daystar high flex joint I put in didn't like being vertical, as the existing ball joint was. It didn't hold the grease around the ball section of the joint (thats the Daystar unit) and finally it went dry, so I got metal to poly contact real bad, which made the poor Liberty sound like some alien monster at every slight imperfection in the road.

I took the upper "tri-link" out, along with the existing ball joint mount on the differential. I "fabed" up a new mount for the differential with ears on it to accept a horizontal Daystar ( I was glad OK 4 wd decided to keep these Daystar units in stock). I welded the bracket up for the diff, and bolted it into place. The tri-link I needed to cut the old Daystar joint out, which I did. I proceeded to weld a plate over the top hole made by the original ball joint, and welded a piece of channel to the bottomm to accept the round Daystar joint. welded the Daystar Joint to the channel and than I welded a support strap around the Daystar joint and welded the strap to the tri-link. I think it should stand up to the riggers of off road now.

I placed the 2.5 inch pucks back in and took it out for a test drive everyhting is tight, much tighter than the original factory set up there is no forward or reverse movement in the differential now. (as a side bar, go under your Libertys and have some rock it back and forth while in park or gear - no e-brake on - and watch the pinion and drive shaft move up and down. There is a lot of play in the factory ball joint.)

So now I am running 38.5 inches between the ground and center of the rear fender flare with very little noticable vibration (around 45 mph) and very quiet ride.

Pictures will follow later today or tomorrow.

Al

PS with the front lift (if and when I get it done), I do not know if the rack will hold up to later tires, time will tell!

uvalax236 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:22 pm

Al, the more I read the more I want this done on my KJ. If necessary, I will help you test everything. Let me know if I can help cause I want this done to my KJ!!!!!!!!!!

Jeepin Al · **Posted:** Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:45 pm

Ok here are the pictures,

Here are the brackets, left is new and right is the old.

Here is the tri-link with the Daystar flex joint welded in.

What it looks like with an almost 6 inch lift

Al

Calvin56 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:59 am **Posts:** 345

So.... what can you do with the front to match the back??? :twisted:

And how hard would it be to make something like that and send it to me?

chefdab · **Posted:** Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:23 am

I would think with that much lift, you would need longer control arms. Do you have adjustable control arms? If so, how far out are they extended?

Jeepin Al · **Posted:** Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:09 am

Hey Guys,

It took me a little over 7 hours to fab this up. I had all the metal I needed around the garage. So with my time at lets say at $75/hr. thats $525. for the brackets, around $300 for the springs, joint and pucks, $800 is a little much to pay for only lifting the rear. (for me the labor is free I have fun doing it, keeps me out of my wifes hair, and being a "shop" I get I either pay jobber price, or reseller price, which is about 20% less than the public pays, so it was worth for me). I don't think I will be selling these things, unless I can find a machine shop to fab them up for me. I will be looking to the front next (winter time). Some one asked about the rack and larger tires, maybe the new Cherokee rack will fit, with the weight of a hemi on it, it should be a little stronger?!

As for the rear arms, I got Rusty to make me adjustable flex arms. They allow the rear to move freely and I can adjust them for length (up to a point) to change the pinion angle. You can order the arms from him, they cost me $185 for the set about 1.5 years ago. If you do get them, the tend to rattle on the trail, so I relocated the grease fittings and pumped the entire arm with grease, nice and quiet now!

Next real project is a rear bumber with a swing away tire carrier! My rear tailgate door is rattling real bad. The weight of the 245 MTR has played havoc on the tire mount!

The rear mounts are relatively easy to make, and when I test everything at Paragon, or G. Washington next month I will let everyone know the part numbers for the joint, shocks and springs. I want to find out if the system can take the off roading I do!

Al

Jeepin Al · **Posted:** Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:35 pm

So far so good on the highway and local roads. Even surived several petal mashing starts from the traffic lights. Next off road. I did received a lot of positive comments about the look and lift over this weekend at the NJ Truckfest. No trophies however, got beat out by a couple explorers and a lowered Cherokee that didn't see a day of off roading, pretty trucks however!

I was surprised at the amount of poeple that stopped by and talked about the Liberty.

Anyway, can you who watch the board move this to the fabrication section?
Please!

thanks

Al

Lift experimentation

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