Cold weather starts - Yikes ! !

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:33 am

McMoney wrote:

From being up north I can tell from experience that it takes some doing to get the CRD to start at -25 C. Glow plugs only come on for about 5 seconds, but takes a fair bit of cranking to get it to catch. Sounds like an old cummins for 30 second but then smooths out. Pluggin in helps makes it start like it is summer. Also the engine mounts freeze at below -30 C. The engine aint that smooth with frozen mounts, feels like it will shake apart. :shock:

Why would any normal human live where it is that cold???? :roll:

My next move is further south.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:59 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

If the MB dealer wants to install new injectors, maybe a diesel purge treatment as described on tdiclub.com might save some expense... worth a shot if they want a couple of grand for an injector or two.

I had a tremendous nailing sound when I bought some Walmart diesel the first summer I owned the CRD - I mean nailing like a jackhammer - I thought a rod was going to come through the block. Put some bio in it and PS and it stopped. Never bought anymore Murphy diesel after that.

Already tried running two cans of diesel purge thru it. Quieted right down. As soon as it was running off the fuel tank again, noise came right back. Been doing it constantly since I got the beast, didn't realize how loud it was at first because it was July and running with the A/C on full blast and windows up. Some guys at work with diesel experience mentioned how it sounded like crap going thru the parking lot. When I tried driving with the windows down, they were right - loud enough to echo off the house and the trees in the driveway, does it whether or not the engine is cold, 90 or 30 outside, only goes away above 1500 RPM. Does it regardless of B20, ULSD, LSD, or brand.

Already got a new set of Bosio nozzles, $30 each. Injectors that are in it are Bosch remans (big letters saying "REMAN FOR MB" on the side). Could get a set of 6 new complete injectors for 400 to 500. These aren't the high-priced electronic wonders that the CRD uses, just old fashioned mechanical poppet injectors, basically a glorified relief valve. Thank god for good old fashioned mechanical fuel injection!

I've got all the hardware and tools to change out the nozzles myself, and have already changed out the o-rings and seals on the delivery valves on the injection pump to correct a fuel leak. But there's a few things I can't check on my own, such as timing chain stretch, camshaft timing, and injection pump timing.

That, and given the age, mileage, and unknown maintenance history of the beast, I thought it might be worth it to give the MB dealer at least one shot doing a major maintenance on it - engine, brakes, suspension, etc - so I'd at least know where I stand overall. From the appearance of the brake fluid, it does look as if it's been some time since the brake system has been flushed. Wanting to take the beast on a long trip over Christmas, and just don't have the time to go over everything myself.

Even at that, with the shape it's in now, it's knocking down 32 to 35 MPG commuting to work. darn good car!!!!

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Sounds like you have it well under control. Incredible price on injector nozzles - especially in comparison to gen III bosch injectors. Too bad they don't make a vag-com for MB's. Sounds like you could take care of it yourself. Great biodiesel car.

Saber · **Joined:** Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:48 pm **Posts:** 160

Endurance wrote:

I love that sound. I even roll down the window in the mornings to hear the rattle!

I'm glad that I'm not alone

Marlon_JBT · **Posted:** Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:50 pm

MooseMeat wrote:

Do all CRD’s sound like they are going to throw a rod after sitting all day at work? :shock:

High of 14deg.F here today.

That's a great way of putting it, LOL!!!!!!!!

(Yes they all do.)

McMoney · **Posted:** Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:52 am

oldnavy wrote:

McMoney wrote:

From being up north I can tell from experience that it takes some doing to get the CRD to start at -25 C. Glow plugs only come on for about 5 seconds, but takes a fair bit of cranking to get it to catch. Sounds like an old cummins for 30 second but then smooths out. Pluggin in helps makes it start like it is summer. Also the engine mounts freeze at below -30 C. The engine aint that smooth with frozen mounts, feels like it will shake apart. :shock:

Why would any normal human live where it is that cold???? :roll:

My next move is further south.

The money up here makes it feel warm. Plus 6 months of winter is nice, I love snow and i hate bugs. Power Service in the white bottle and winter fronts are all a guy needs in the cold.

You can dress up for the cold but you can only get so naked when it is hot, then its still hot. :wink:

oldnavy · **Posted:** Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:57 am

McMoney wrote:

You can dress up for the cold but you can only get so naked when it is hot, then its still hot. :wink:

That's what my daddy used to say " Son you can always put on enough clothes to keep warm, but you can only take so many off", but dad didn't arthritis like I do these days. :cry:

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

When you started my old rabbit diesel in the cold it made more noise than the hookers in angeles city in the phillipines (sort of like pieces of concrete in a 55 gallon drum). The CRD does make some rattling, but only for about 30 secs and will not wake the dead like the old rabbit. Plus the rabbit's glo plugs took 30 secs to get the engine going.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:45 pm

You should hear a friends old Ford Power Smoke fire up in cold weather, probably hear that thing for 5 miles. Clatter, clatter, clattter!!!

Jeger · **Posted:** Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:38 pm

I have never heard anything louder than this old timberjack log skidder. Im pretty sure it had a big ole Detroit Diesel in it. Non-turbo, no muffler. That thing was loud no matter what the temp.

Emos Way · **Posted:** Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:59 pm

Saber wrote:

Endurance wrote:

I love that sound. I even roll down the window in the mornings to hear the rattle!

I'm glad that I'm not alone

You're far from alone on this one.. SouthWestern Ontario, Canada.. It gets pretty cold up here and when it does I run into the same thing with my Jeep...

no-blue-screen · **Posted:** Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:07 pm

Emos Way, your CRD looks sweet!

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Speaking of cold weather starts - I was performing my bi-annual battery charge on my vehicles this weekend and decided to try an experiment on the CRD. My charger is one that happens to have a digital ammeter on it.

With outside temps at 49F, engine cold, not having started since the day before, I charged the optima battery till it was completed, then tried turning the ignition key to the on position, just to get the glow plugs running. This is what the battery charger ammeter shows:

1st key on - gp light on for 2 seconds - ammeter shows 25.8 amp draw for 10 seconds, then off
2nd key on - gp light did not go on at all - ammeter shows 25.8 amp draw for 10 seconds, then off
3rd key on - no gp light, ammeter shows 25.8 amp draw for 10 seconds, then off

So it appears the gp light is nothing more than an indicator of when one can start the engine - those gp's are on even when the light isn't.

Jeger · **Posted:** Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:21 am

Ranger1 wrote:

Speaking of cold weather starts - I was performing my bi-annual battery charge on my vehicles this weekend and decided to try an experiment on the CRD. My charger is one that happens to have a digital ammeter on it.

With outside temps at 49F, engine cold, not having started since the day before, I charged the optima battery till it was completed, then tried turning the ignition key to the on position, just to get the glow plugs running. This is what the battery charger ammeter shows:

1st key on - gp light on for 2 seconds - ammeter shows 25.8 amp draw for 10 seconds, then off
2nd key on - gp light did not go on at all - ammeter shows 25.8 amp draw for 10 seconds, then off
3rd key on - no gp light, ammeter shows 25.8 amp draw for 10 seconds, then off

So it appears the gp light is nothing more than an indicator of when one can start the engine - those gp's are on even when the light isn't.

So do they go off as soon as you start it? Or do you think they stay on the whole ten seconds regardless? I am wondering if it would be best to go ahead and start it as soon as the GP's are up to temp or to wait the 10 seconds and then start.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

I did not start it with the battery charger attached. But according to the FSM, the gp's stay on for up to several minutes after the engine starts, or activate whenever the ECM decides they need to - they are used to keep emissions low enough to pass T2B5 EPA requirements. I had 2 gp's burn out in August 05 and the CRD smoke like a locomotive on acceleration - once replaced, it quit smoking. So they are active more than just pre-start.

richardkf · **Joined:** Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:15 pm **Posts:** 167

Ranger1 wrote:

I did not start it with the battery charger attached. But according to the FSM, the gp's stay on for up to several minutes after the engine starts, or activate whenever the ECM decides they need to - they are used to keep emissions low enough to pass T2B5 EPA requirements. I had 2 gp's burn out in August 05 and the CRD smoke like a locomotive on acceleration - once replaced, it quit smoking. So they are active more than just pre-start.

This makes the most sense (of glow plugs) since many people on this site have had them burn out even in warm weather. It does not make sense that there would be so many glow plug failures if they were glowing only when the indicator was on.

Even in some 20 degree cold morning starts, my indicator light only remains on for about 3 seconds, at most. And that only happens a few times per winter/cold season. Most other times, 45 degrees and higher outside temps, the light either doesnt come in or flashes for a split second to the point you dont even see it unless you are specifically looking at it to see if it ever even comes on.

That the glow plugs also glow while the engine is running and cold, makes more sense as to how they can be failing on many people.

This is a little off the topic, but after the 3/36 runs out, are the glow plugs covered under the 7/70 powertrain?

alljeep · **Posted:** Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:58 am

richardkf wrote:

This is a little off the topic, but after the 3/36 runs out, are the glow plugs covered under the 7/70 powertrain?

Not under powertrain, but my '05 Manual specifically states an additional 7/70 diesel engine warranty and has a list of covered components and glow plugs are included in mine.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Many of the gp failures were reportedly a downstream result of sticking egr valves putting too much exhaust gas into the intake - the resultant mixture could not reach proper burn temperature and the ECM attempted to compensate by cycling the gp's on to increase the burn rate - a futile attempt, since excessive exhaust gas will not burn. This appears to me to a symptom of incomplete software programming to account for this failure mode - the duty cycle of the gp's is known, and the ecm could have a routine which determines excessive gp usage requested, limit the duty cycle and set a P code that shows excessive gp requested usage.

I would not think the gp's are covered under the 7/70 powertrain warranty - being electrical in nature. As long as the egr doesn't fail, they should last 80k - 100k.

Cold weather starts - Yikes ! !

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