New Customer Satisfaction Recall - F37

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:22 pm

Toe wrote:

Btw, my CRD just started bucking after I do a full throttle acceleration to 65mph. Once I let off it bucks some till I completely let of the throttle for a second, then all is good. The predator module makes it much more noticable, but without it is still there. The question is do I try to get this F37 done now, or do my 2200km road trip through the rockies this X-mas and get it done after.

Sound like classic fuel problem, either air in line, filter plugging up, or very poor quality fuel and a few other fuel related probems.

BioJeep · **Posted:** Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:27 pm

Quote:

It baffles me that a jeep putting down 250lb's stock with 5 years of this tranny being in production and they can't get it working right.

It's apparently due to the unique high torque @ low rpm the CRD produces. Still, they should've come up with a real fix by now, altho it surely is just a matter of cost when it comes down to it.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:32 pm

oldnavy wrote:

Toe wrote:

Btw, my CRD just started bucking after I do a full throttle acceleration to 65mph. Once I let off it bucks some till I completely let of the throttle for a second, then all is good. The predator module makes it much more noticable, but without it is still there. The question is do I try to get this F37 done now, or do my 2200km road trip through the rockies this X-mas and get it done after.

Sound like classic fuel problem, either air in line, filter plugging up, or very poor quality fuel and a few other fuel related probems.

I agree but mine has done this since new :shock:

cerich · **Posted:** Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:44 pm

Inet_CRD wrote:

Quote:

Many of the problems with these vehicles are created by user error or lack of experience. Many have been modified outside oe spec. Many are driven like race cars with performance mods increasing the already incredible torque. Race cars are driven hard for one race on one day then rebuilt. Why pound the doo doo out of something you own and then cry about it!

I think many of us have bone stock CRD's, drive them like normal human beings, but end up going to dealorships and facing this kind of attitude. Why is it always the clients problem? I'm totally surprised that your tech would even bother tracing a problem that wasn't pointed out to them in big flashing letters from a DRB tester. Maybe being a dealership manager is what it takes to be treated like somebody who actually has a little grey matter instead being instantly classed as a stupid user who has driven the crap out of the vehicle and has come in "whining". Maybe this is just one more reason why Toyota, Honda and even Hyundai are stealing away more and more customers from 'Goodole Boys' like yourself. A little research into this forum should have relealed by now that most of the folks here are facing basic reliability issues, something this recall should have made clear. It also seems a little funny to hear you lament about 'Race Cars' coming from a manufacturer that for the last several years has done nothing but hype Hemi's, SRT's big V-8's and use sayings like 'HIT IT'.

At least your being honest, I guess...

Yeah, his attitude is somewhat telling

I like his "buy an extended wararnty so the tranny is covered", how about I respond with "build a reliable tranny"

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

Many of the problems with these vehicles are created by user error or lack of experience."

Very true, but your poor dealership training and low standards of hiring leave customers at the mercy of your user errors and lack of experience, both at the technician and service manager level.

Your attempt to redirect the CRD's well documented design faults to user error and owner modification speaks volumes for your lack of knowledge of the CRD issues. Issues which have been researched and discussed on this forum for quite some time. I suppose TSB after TSB to try to eliminate egr failures, torque converter lock/unlock issues is a direct response to "user errors."

You may attempt to rewrite this any way you wish, but your downward spiraling sales on the Liberty, Grand Cherokees, and other DC products isn't happening because customers know they can depend on courteous, intelligent, competent service at their 5 star dealership. It's hit or miss at best. And the poor quality reputation many Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep dealerships have isn't because users are so inexperienced. Its because they run across dealerships staffed with people with attitudes similar to yours. We can get these kind of self-serving excuses all day long while waiting at many DC dealerships - to have it posted on a forum with knowledgeable owners is laughable.

I suppose the average Honda and Toyota owner is so much more experienced/less prone to user error that they don't mistreat their vehicles, step on the accelerator pedal too hard and cause the egr failures, the oil blowby mess and the rough shifting. I suppose the bottom of the barrel JD Power quality ratings, both short and long term that Jeep, and many DC vehicles in general have is due to "user error."

It must be something in the Jeep that overcomes the owners, you see, because some of us own both Hondas, Toyotas and Jeeps. We are experienced when we drive our Honda's and Toyota's, but the "shield of error and lack of experience force field" turns on the minute we enter our Jeep vehicles. Good theory Einstein. If you think I'm blasting you, you're right. Your post is so self-serving and lacking in credibility it deserves far more than plain English, but I'll save that for the DC regional rep when I print out your pathetic response with copies as far up as I can find mailing addresses for.

Endurance · **Posted:** Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:18 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

Quote:

Many of the problems with these vehicles are created by user error or lack of experience."

Very true, but your poor dealership training and low standards of hiring leave customers at the mercy of your user errors and lack of experience, both at the technician and service manager level.

Your attempt to redirect the CRD's well documented design faults to user error and owner modification speaks volumes for your lack of knowledge of the CRD issues. Issues which have been researched and discussed on this forum for quite some time. I suppose TSB after TSB to try to eliminate egr failures, torque converter lock/unlock issues is a direct response to "user errors."

You may attempt to rewrite this any way you wish, but your downward spiraling sales on the Liberty, Grand Cherokees, and other DC products isn't happening because customers know they can depend on courteous, intelligent, competent service at their 5 star dealership. It's hit or miss at best. And the poor quality reputation many Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep dealerships have isn't because users are so inexperienced. Its because they run across dealerships staffed with people with attitudes similar to yours. We can get these kind of self-serving excuses all day long while waiting at many DC dealerships - to have it posted on a forum with knowledgeable owners is laughable.

I suppose the average Honda and Toyota owner is so much more experienced/less prone to user error that they don't mistreat their vehicles, step on the accelerator pedal too hard and cause the egr failures, the oil blowby mess and the rough shifting. I suppose the bottom of the barrel JD Power quality ratings, both short and long term that Jeep, and many DC vehicles in general have is due to "user error."

It must be something in the Jeep that overcomes the owners, you see, because some of us own both Hondas, Toyotas and Jeeps. We are experienced when we drive our Honda's and Toyota's, but the "shield of error and lack of experience force field" turns on the minute we enter our Jeep vehicles. Good theory Einstein. If you think I'm blasting you, you're right. Your post is so self-serving and lacking in credibility it deserves far more than plain English, but I'll save that for the DC regional rep when I print out your pathetic response with copies as far up as I can find mailing addresses for.

Very true Ranger1, couldnt agree more. But lets keep the discussion level as high as always, thats what this board is all about. Knowledgable people who can discuss issues without becoming angry and namecalling and all that.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:30 pm

dodgeramvan wrote:

I also have a 2006 Liberty ltd crd, and I'm also a sales manager for a chrysler dealership.

Sorry but after the "buying experience" I had while looking for my CRD I think very little of you and your kind :!:

You as a group have very few knowledgable people selling your products. I knew far more then the sales person I got mine from. They didn't know what "CRD" meant :roll:

I've owned too many diesels to count and started buying them in 1978. What a sad experience I had when I took my 78 rabbit in for a miss when hot. I learned diesel 101 and fixed it myself. Since then I have maintained my own diesels. Automobile dealers have not learned a thing in almost thirty years :oops:

The only time my cars have been to a dealer's garage was when they were under warranty. I despise "service writers", most can't even write down what the customer tells them. If you haven't noticed many CRD owners have more experience with diesels then your technitions and we know when something is wrong or we're being lied to. Honda and Toyota owners may not notice the shudder or surging but most of us do. Sorry we're so knowledgable that DC can't ignore the problems the CRD's have. If you intend to sell diesels in the US get used to it and wise up! I have never owned a vehicle that had so many nagging little things :oops:

Growning brakes, seates that spot with water, transmission that seems to get confused, coolant hose clamp inproperly installed causing the coolant hose to come off to name a few. It's a shame you have soiled the image of this nice VM disesel with your lack luster attitude.
In addition since all 11,200 CRD's are being recalled that were made before November of 2006 why has DC forgotten some of us who's jeeps were made in December 05 and January 06 :?:

DC does not seem to be able to get even that right :cry:

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:10 pm

Joe you should copy your post and send it to D/C, because this is the best short paragraph that cuts to the bone without being offensive I have seen written here on the forum.

It really gets the point across.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:47 pm

oldnavy wrote:

Joe you should copy your post and send it to D/C, because this is the best short paragraph that cuts to the bone without being offensive I have seen written here on the forum.

It really gets the point across.

Good Idea, I just did. But I'm a realist and tend to think it will go into the bit bucket :roll:

macd · **Joined:** Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:46 pm **Posts:** 50

oldnavy wrote:

Jeger is correct on this point, sounds lilke they didn't put enough fluid in the tranny at the recall, he probably only did the 1 1/4 quart like the recall says but it is incorrect for fluid amount, you would need 4 to 6 qts to replkace L.O.S.T. fluid. Drive the vehicle about 5 or 10 miles depending on temps outside and the park on level put it in park and leave it run then pull the stick out and wipe it off then redip it and see where the fluid level is on the stick. There are two sets of lines, one marked cold at bottom of stick which is incorrect, and the upper two lines for normal hot temp. If you are below that line even a 1/4 inch you would be about 2 or 3 quarts low on fluid.

I checked the fluid tonight and its full, if anything its too full. The fluid line was and inch above the hot mark on the stick.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:12 pm

alljeep wrote:

Joe Romas wrote:

Could it indeed be a misprint and be November 05 and not all 11,200 :?:

It is hard to dismiss two errors though, both quantity and date. However, I have always kept in the back of my head that the approximatly 11,000 number was for vehicles produced by the end of 2005 and that maybe there are 15,000 or more total U.S. spec. In that case, I could see just the cut-off date information being in error with the 11,200 produced up to that point in late 2005 as accurate.

I just checked the Canadian version of the F37 recall and they estimate to dealers that the number of CRD's potentially impacted as 950!
Wow, that number is really interesting I thought that it would be a least a few thousand.

Recall information for Canadian Dealers is now available on Dealer CONNECT
See Group 30 – CANADIAN RECALLS

The transmission torque converter on about 950 of the above vehicles may fail . This can cause a rattling sound in the
neutral or park positions and/or illuminate the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL). Continued operation can result in
transmission damage.
To correct this condition, the torque converter must be repl aced and both the ECM and TCM must be reprogrammed.
The r epair involves a small reduction in engine torque to enhance torque converter and transmission durability.
The V.I.N. range for vehicles involved in this campaign is as follows:
1J8GL58545W505605 - 1J 4GL58575W719490
1J4GL48586W104328 - 1J 4GL485X6W155250

impulse · **Posted:** Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:02 am

Interesting info. The last eight numbers of my vin fall into the the last group , ie not too far below the 6w155250 .
The first part is 1j4gl5853 .. When I go onto the jeep.com site and put in the last 8 digits as required, no recall is shown.( ball joints done)
Your opinion please. Is there any info on whether the F37 causes an earlier shift to 5th lockup as indicated be several ?
Thanks,
Ross

oldnavy · **Posted:** Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:01 am

macd wrote:

I checked the fluid tonight and its full, if anything its too full. The fluid line was and inch above the hot mark on the stick.

Hate to tell you this, but you can get similar problem with over fill and can also blow seals. If they filled it to where it is about an inch over the top line when hot, in park, then you need to have 1 or 2 quarts sucked out of the tranny.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:24 am

oldnavy wrote:

There is no need to lower pan and replace the filters to just replace the TC. That is about what it took to refill mine all total best I remember, but it can vary due to anount of fluid is L.O.S.T. out of cooler lines. My tech plugged the lines, and L.O.S.T. very little. I think all total the replacement was about 4 qts but I would have to ask him again to be sure.

That said the F37 says you only need 1 & 1/4 quarts, and the tech told me he had never seen a TC hold less the 2.5 to 3 qts. So it would be possible to just do the TC and only use 6 quarts.

I may be missing something here, but if we have torque converters failing and dumping debris into the system, eventually trashing the whole tranny, pardon my French but it seems pretty d####d stupid not to drop the pan and check it and the filters while they're at it.

Granted I'm no expert, but from what I understand of automatics that's basic Tranny 101, check the condition of the fluid, and for debris in the pan and filters, as indications there may be problems. Seems that would be a more reliable indicator that more than the TC needs to be replaced, than having a tech trying to listen for a rattle over the sound of the engine.

It sounds like they're assuming that if there's no rattle, everything else is fine and all they do is swap out TC's. If there is a rattle, they assume everything is up s##t creek and replace pump, cooler, lines , etc.

In other words, they're not allowing for intermediate stages or gradual failure of the TC, assuming it's either 100% healthy or 100% fubar based on the rattle.

I know where this is heading - when they finally do the recall on mine, I'll be visiting the local tranny shop again to have them drop the pan and filters just so I know for sure what the h##l is going on.

alljeep · **Posted:** Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:22 am

OK folks - I need some F37 aftermath help.

My Jeep drives great after F37, it's only been about 50 miles of testing so far but I have transmission fluid drops forming on the lowest seam between the transmission bell housing and its mating surface to the engine block. I did a VERY thorough inspection, this is the only leak/drip spot (drops form on the two lowest bolts and the seam between these bolts. Fluid level has remained full for 2 days.

Is this left over mess just seeping out? What else can it be? Should I drive it a week to see if it dries up or take it back?

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:28 am

alljeep wrote:

OK folks - I need some F37 aftermath help.

My Jeep drives great after F37, it's only been about 50 miles of testing so far but I have transmission fluid drops forming on the lowest seam between the transmission bell housing and its mating surface to the engine block. I did a VERY thorough inspection, this is the only leak/drip spot (drops form on the two lowest bolts and the seam between these bolts. Fluid level has remained full for 2 days.

Is this left over mess just seeping out? What else can it be? Should I drive it a week to see if it dries up or take it back?

At this point I would wait and see if it dries up. Then after the week is up I would take it back :cry:

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:50 am

Joe Romas wrote:

alljeep wrote:

OK folks - I need some F37 aftermath help.

My Jeep drives great after F37, it's only been about 50 miles of testing so far but I have transmission fluid drops forming on the lowest seam between the transmission bell housing and its mating surface to the engine block. I did a VERY thorough inspection, this is the only leak/drip spot (drops form on the two lowest bolts and the seam between these bolts. Fluid level has remained full for 2 days.

Is this left over mess just seeping out? What else can it be? Should I drive it a week to see if it dries up or take it back?

At this point I would wait and see if it dries up. Then after the week is up I would take it back :cry:

I'm with Joe. The area your describing usually leaks if you have the following failures. Oil leaks if the rear main seal is broke. Transmission fluid leaks if the transmission pump seal is leaking.
If the techs were sloppy in the cleanup, you may just be seeing residual transmission fluid.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:11 am

retmil46 wrote:

I may be missing something here, but if we have torque converters failing and dumping debris into the system, eventually trashing the whole tranny, pardon my French but it seems pretty d####d stupid not to drop the pan and check it and the filters while they're at it.

Granted I'm no expert, but from what I understand of automatics that's basic Tranny 101, check the condition of the fluid, and for debris in the pan and filters, as indications there may be problems. Seems that would be a more reliable indicator that more than the TC needs to be replaced, than having a tech trying to listen for a rattle over the sound of the engine.

It sounds like they're assuming that if there's no rattle, everything else is fine and all they do is swap out TC's. If there is a rattle, they assume everything is up s##t creek and replace pump, cooler, lines , etc.

In other words, they're not allowing for intermediate stages or gradual failure of the TC, assuming it's either 100% healthy or 100% fubar based on the rattle.

I know where this is heading - when they finally do the recall on mine, I'll be visiting the local tranny shop again to have them drop the pan and filters just so I know for sure what the h##l is going on.

I hate to say this but yes you are missing something. If as in my case the tranny filter problem was caught in time and the filters replaced and their was no metal in the tranny and the proper filters were reinstalled and no further tranny problems ensued then yes there is no need to drop the pan.

Despite what you all are hearing this is a problem caused by improper filters, and these filters not only were put into the tranny at mfg, but later when TSB's were done or regular tranny service done these filters could have been installed. There was an internial recall of the filters to the parts depts and they were supposed to have not been used and returned to warehouse, unfortunely some of the filters on the shelf went into trannys that had proper filters and they had no way to tell which vehicles got those other filters. This was also a problem in the PU line and is being handled quitely I guess, I am not a member of a Dodge PU truck board.

The number of CRD's that may have had a bad filter installed at the TSB is small but could have happened. It almost did with my CRD, but the tech caught the mistake by looking at part # on the filter box. I have no idea if the dealership got rid of all the bad filters, but will assume they did. The real reason for these TC failures is because of filters, improper repairs, dealers refusing to do the TSB to start with, some people posted here they would not even take the vehicle to the dealer till tranny puked it's guts, some said here that they would try to destroy the tranny before taking it in just to get a new tranny.

Granted this whole mess was handled wrong by D/C, a lot of dealers, but a lot of people here were guilty of abuse of the tranny or neglect, not to mention some would mix fuel problems up with tranny probelms. Hey fuel starvation on and off can be very rough on a tranny in case you didn't know.

Ok I have to do a restart on the laptop to allow MS to update things, back up in a few minutes. I also will take this time to check out my small office and it's reading material.

Hey Mitch don't get mad and think I'm dressing you down, that was not the intent. But printed words often say more then intended.

Walt

PS: Hey I am back, MS flash up-grade was a sucess. All paper work complete in small office.

All is right with the universe. :wink:

macd · **Joined:** Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:46 pm **Posts:** 50

Well a week after the F37 recall was performed my CRD is getting towed back to the dealer. Yesterday I noticed growling and clicking coming from the tranny and today the tranny was clunking so bad I was afraid to drive it. My guess is the dealer didnt put it back together correct after the recall. My hope now is I get a new tranny and pump.

On a side note I called Jeep yesterday and told them about all my issues and they called me back telling me to fill out the Lemon Law card in my glove box. So whatever that means, it looks like Jeep is going to offer a buy back. First, thing I will ask is to find me another CRD, if that fails then a 150K warranty. Unfortunately there isnt a replacement on the market right now. Too bad the Grand Cherokee CRD isnt out yet.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:57 pm

Walt, never thought you were trying to dress me down, I've seen enough of what you've put on the forum over the past year or so to know that's never your intent with anyone, just to put out the straight info as you know it.

Besides, being a retired squid, I don't really consider any type of exchange to be a proper dressing down unless it includes a few choice expletives! :wink:

My beef is with DC. As you said, they've handled this poorly, "clueless" would be the term I'd use. I agree with what you've said, that the main problems driving this recall are the faulty filters, and improper fill levels in the trannys both from the factory and poor dealer delivery prep, causing damage to the TC's.

But if you look at the recall and the way it's worded, especially the part about reducing engine torque to promote tranny reliability, it gives the strong impression that DC feels the problem, or at least part of it, is due to the design of the torque converter. Add to that the separate issue of a redesigned pump and tranny cooler that has popped up from time to time and several people have received.

Overall, it gives the feel that there's a lot more to the story than just filters and fluid level.

I was caught on both items. Tranny was 2 quarts low when delivered from the dealer. And then when the service tech insisted my tranny didn't fall under the filter TSB, I went to a local tranny shop and had it done on my own dime. Sure enough, it had the wrong filters, and fortunately didn't show any signs that anything was wrong.

Also had the third item mentioned, air leaks in the fuel system, causing a stutter that many people would think was the tranny.

After all three of those were addressed, haven't had a peep out of the tranny or the engine (if you don't count the EGR and glow plugs).

And like a lot of people, part of it is a growing level of frustration, the reaction of "Gawd, NOT AGAIN!" at the prospect of yet another dealer visit, lost time and wages, arguing with the SA, etc, etc.

New Customer Satisfaction Recall - F37

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