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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:41 pm 
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DarbyWalters wrote:
SAD ... 32 pages of posts and no "real solution" it seems.


All of my problems were dealership management and operation issues. Six days to do a half days work and being blatently treated like dog crap is a systemic problem that DC needs to address. Even though my Jeep came out battered and bruised from a sloppy tech - it runs great (although still a trace of a leak from the bell housing to transmission seam, it's slowing).

My solutions:

1. Eliminate the Service Advisor positions as currently established. Initiate a rotating tech/SA system where techs take turns being a SA on shifts. This way the folks that KNOW what will happen when a car is repaired are the same folks talking to the car owners. This eliminates the middle man and the majority of the problems in which issues and concerns are lost in the translation. There is no need for a customer to have to talk to the same SA every time an inquiry is made - this is old fashioned and out of date methodology. Whatever combination of SA's are on duty that day handles the calls. Exceptions will be made for techs that are just not people savy. A slight salary bonus can be made for folks who are required to be dual certified techs and Service Advisors.

2. Re-vamp how warranty work is charged/billed/and valued. This will have to come from DC downward. Folks like myself should not be charged to remove MOPAR skid plates to the tune of $70 for 2 bolts - whether the skids are factory, or dealer add on after the fact.

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Last edited by alljeep on Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:42 pm 
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Fire them all and start over with VM running the CRD repairs.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:24 pm 
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KJMedic wrote:
Fire them all and start over with VM running the CRD repairs.


That's the best thing anyone has suggested yet :!: I also agree whole hartedly with alljeep regarding "service advisors". I don't want "advice" on my service :evil: I know what I want done and don't like talking to PR people about mechanical things that they know nothing about :(

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:06 pm 
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DarbyWalters wrote:
SAD ... 32 pages of posts and no "real solution" it seems.


At this point Darby, DC has created a genuine PR disaster on their diesel reentry plans. If they want to redeem themselves, there is a simple solution:

First - Accept the fact that they mistreated their early adopters with the CRD flaws and their dealerships with 18 months of bandaid fixes. This includes those who have more than nuisance problems. Big step for DC to take - but critical - and one they have resisted so far. Something Corporations must come to realize that current and future customers are watching closely is how they handle their mistakes when customers suffer. Piss of your current customers now with obvious design flaws, let them deal with the loss on their own and watch them disappear for a decade, if they ever return. Become another GM of the 80's. Factor that into your projected income picture.

Second - Take responsibility, as in realize that its going to cost them to make this right with CRD owners and to try to build a reputation of a company that stand behind their products with real solutions. Without that reputation, DC is dead in the coming diesel and car marketplace. They have violated the element of trust with their customers that their warranty represents real value when a product has issues. If they doubt this, look at todays business news - where analysts tout Toyota overtaking Ford as the number 2 automaker in sales. That did not have to happen - and the reason rests squarely on Ford's shoulders, not Toyota - Ford had the number 2 spot since the 1920's - it was their market share to lose - and they did.

Third - Offer any CRD owner with a documented dealership history of egr/torque converter/transmission/turbocharger repairs a complete buyback - at what the customers paid - not a blackbook discount value - but only if the customer is willing to buy another DC product, such as Dodge, Chrysler, MB or even another Jeep product. Offer the new vehicle at employee price. Then ask each buyback customer to tell 10 other people about how DC stood behind their product.

Yes, take the cost bullet and build their reputation back from the nosedive its in now. By doing this, they will add to the red ink they already have to report - financially, it only changes the numbers in red, not reduce them from black to red. If they do this, they can retain much of their CRD and early diesel adopter customer base - upon whom referrals depend and bad treatment stories will flow if they don't make this right. Their bean counters already know the cost of getting new customers versus retaining their current customers. They can also keep their factories running and the layoff numbers down, the plant closings down and avoid some of the negative spin the financial press is already starting to lay on them.



If the average buyback cost is $25K, less a $5K profit on the new vehicle, less the salvage value of say 10,000 CRD owners who might take the offer, they would end up spending maybe $50 to $75 million. That figure pales in comparison to the financial costs of laying off tens of thousand of workers, plant closings and layoff benefits. All of which they will end up doing given their poor reputation of late, both on quality and standing behind their warrantys.

It would take an exceptional management team to do this - but DC should take a look at GM and Ford - thats exactly the kind of press their headed for, and they could at least save some customers now and pull of a marketing coup while they still have the chance.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:37 pm 
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Ranger:

Now I know why marijuana is the largest cash crop in North America. One would clearly have to be on drugs if they thought DC would buy into your proposal.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:31 pm 
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Perhaps you should take your own advice - it might even make your posts interesting :-)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:55 pm 
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Pardon me while I puff away with Ranger ;-)

After the lame engineering that went into KJ, the biggest problem DC has is lack of tech training in the service department. From what I've heard the "diesel certification" for DC amounts to a couple hours of "this is a diesel and it's different from gas." Most people have problems with the CRD, because the service people don't know what they're doing, so problems don't get fixed correctly -- or they're made worse. If DC makes the effort to insure there is comprehensive training on diesel tech they would avert many of these problems. They would also have a population of employees capable of giving DC intelligent feedback on why things break.

So far I've not had to take my CRD in for anything more CRD-specific than an oil change. I dread the probable EGR failure, since the dealer has only one diesel tech on staff.

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 Post subject: Re: F37 did not solve my shudder
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:51 pm 
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oldnavy wrote:
urchindog wrote:
picked up my liberty this morning, they performed the recall and replaced the TC and did the flashes but did not replace the pump. trans still shudders. called dealer back immediatly and its going back in early next week. i asked them if they test drove the vehicle and they said yes, but would not comment if it repaired the problem. The dealers are sick of this as well, along with being paid minimal for the repair.

3 repairs to the egr related system
ball joint recall
f37 recall..not repaired correctly..going back in
15,750 miles and 8 months in service

this is not a good track record,

Bryan
Maybe they only used the 1.25 quarts of fluid as the F37 says, and never check fluid level. You could be two or three quarts low on fluid and that will also cause it to shudder.


Took it back in this afternoon...fluid level is fine...always has been. They tried to reflash the TCM and it won't accept/locks up(have to order a preprogrammed one). according to test equipment and tech, trans fluid only 120F. operating temp when normal is expected and ECU looks for 180f or will not allow trans to operate in normal mode. They rely on the consumers test drive to determine further action...all apart of the policy in my opinion.
I'll tell you what...i'm a single Dad with twin daughters...this is getting to be more than we should have to put up with. I've owned two dodge diesel pu's, a dodge dakota, chrysler concorde, and a passat tdi. Never have I been treated by dealers directed by a manufacturer to find blame with the end user like this. These half hearted repairs to satisfy the warranty not the problem/failures are what is putting the big 3 in big financial trouble.
its funny thing to buy a toyota camry with more american parts and assembly than what is offered thru chrysler / ford / gm and yet they have consistantly fewer problems.
My background is a regional maintenance manager for a very large international transportation company....many of the vehicles in severe duty applications. What is being passed off here by chrysler are very poor business practices.

bryan


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:22 pm 
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Just talked to my service manger. He said that he just did a TC swap. The TC that was sent by DC was a rebuilt TC. He said it had painted BAD on it. Called DC and they said use it and they installed it. It was a rebuilt TC. Thank goodness it was not put in mine. Just thought this was interesting. Looks to me like this is not a new and different TC. Any thoughts out there??????

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:08 pm 
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Bgame wrote:
Just talked to my service manger. He said that he just did a TC swap. The TC that was sent by DC was a rebuilt TC. He said it had painted BAD on it. Called DC and they said use it and they installed it. It was a rebuilt TC. Thank goodness it was not put in mine. Just thought this was interesting. Looks to me like this is not a new and different TC. Any thoughts out there??????


It seriously sad BAD right on it? Thats a joke, no way if I was a tech would I be putting that thing in there, even if they said it was rebuilt and good to go. :evil:

Imagine when/if the have tranny work in the future, would be an easy diagnosis to look in there and see a BAD TC wouldnt it, I would nail them on that one.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:42 pm 
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I still think DC could save face AND take credit for being one of the first US makers to get behind Diesel SUVs ect. They could retroactively extend all warranties on CRDs (powertrain only...including transmission) to 7/100,000. Next, get together with some "Diesel Gurus" and figure out a true solution instead of a bandage fix. It could be a true publicity cudo for them and would let future Jeep customers know that they are serious about Diesels and repeat business. Product Confidence is a BIG THING these days. When you hear Honda, you think good engineering, fuel efficient, good resale, ect. DC needs to just look a little past where they are gazing and open up thier eyes to the possibilities of GAINING a good reputation.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:52 pm 
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DarbyWalters wrote:
I still think DC could save face AND take credit for being one of the first US makers to get behind Diesel SUVs ect. They could retroactively extend all warranties on CRDs (powertrain only...including transmission) to 7/100,000. Next, get together with some "Diesel Gurus" and figure out a true solution instead of a bandage fix. It could be a true publicity cudo for them and would let future Jeep customers know that they are serious about Diesels and repeat business. Product Confidence is a BIG THING these days. When you hear Honda, you think good engineering, fuel efficient, good resale, ect. DC needs to just look a little past where they are gazing and open up thier eyes to the possibilities of GAINING a good reputation.


Very true DW.
Right now I am still optmistic that they will do the right thing. I would still recommend a CRD to a family member, but if they go on without any real fixes much longer I wont be able to do that, heck I probably wouldnt recommend any DC product if they dont make this a positive experience for me. Dieter needs to look at what this company could be in the future, not what the bean counters are telling him it is now. It does not matter if you make the perfect vehicle next year if you lost all of your customers last year.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:57 pm 
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All kidding aside - vtdog is correct - what I propose as a solution is so radical in corporate business that only an extraordinary management team or leader would even attempt it. (To even suggest it as a solution in today's business world would even label one as a pot smoker or liberal dreamer, neither of which I am. :-) )

That rules out most corporate managers today. In 30 years I have attended many, many management off-site training sessions, sung the songs, attended the posh getaways, listened to all the music, themes, plans, and motivational speakers and gimmicks to get more out of workers than I care to remember. The ones who seemed to profit the most from these sessions were the consultant firms doing the training.

In the end, it all still comes down to leadership and when any company is in trouble, leadership is the last skill that seems to be easy to find. It's probably what gets them into trouble in the first place. The only success I ever saw come out of those efforts were the ones who had already leadership ability when they went into the training. The rest sang the songs, drank the Kool-aid, so to speak, and went back to mimicking each others sheep-like movements and taking no chances whatsoever on any innovative solutions. Their leadership ability focused squarely on not making waves, making their 30 years, retiring and not risking anything personal advancement to help the company.

I remember in the late 70's and very early 80's when Chrysler was in serious trouble of going bankrupt, most likely chapter 13 rather than chapter 11. I remember Iacoca doing the unheard of in those days - going on television, offering $100 if anyone would test drive a K car. I thought sure Chrysler was through - but their leadership team pulled it out and went on to offer some very innovative vehicles, and prospered in spite of their quality lapses. They even payed their government sponsored loan back early, another rare exception. The question is today, does anyone at DC have the leadership ability to get their company back on track? Can they actually do right by their customers and make money?

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SunCoast Mega Trans & Billet TC/PML pan/Aux cooler
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IronMan Lift/Shocks/Provent/Moog ball joints/ V6 Airbox/Fan/Hayden
Cobalt Boost/EGT/Oil/Trans/Volt gauges/Aeroturbine 2525
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:28 pm 
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Maybe history will repeat itself and someone will be a visionary and do the right thing. It is kinda like a lie...if you tell one lie, then you have to tell another to cover for the last lie and so on...pretty soon you don't remember what the first lie was and you don't recognize the truth.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:54 am 
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Jeger wrote:
Bgame wrote:
Just talked to my service manger. He said that he just did a TC swap. The TC that was sent by DC was a rebuilt TC. He said it had painted BAD on it. Called DC and they said use it and they installed it. It was a rebuilt TC. Thank goodness it was not put in mine. Just thought this was interesting. Looks to me like this is not a new and different TC. Any thoughts out there??????


It seriously sad BAD right on it? Thats a joke, no way if I was a tech would I be putting that thing in there, even if they said it was rebuilt and good to go. :evil:

Imagine when/if the have tranny work in the future, would be an easy diagnosis to look in there and see a BAD TC wouldnt it, I would nail them on that one.


No Joke. The service manger said that is how they found out it was a rebuilt. They Called DC to make sure they wanted them to put it in the tranny.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:56 am 
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Bgame wrote:
Jeger wrote:
Bgame wrote:
Just talked to my service manger. He said that he just did a TC swap. The TC that was sent by DC was a rebuilt TC. He said it had painted BAD on it. Called DC and they said use it and they installed it. It was a rebuilt TC. Thank goodness it was not put in mine. Just thought this was interesting. Looks to me like this is not a new and different TC. Any thoughts out there??????


It seriously sad BAD right on it? Thats a joke, no way if I was a tech would I be putting that thing in there, even if they said it was rebuilt and good to go. :evil:

Imagine when/if the have tranny work in the future, would be an easy diagnosis to look in there and see a BAD TC wouldnt it, I would nail them on that one.


No Joke. The service manger said that is how they found out it was a rebuilt. They Called DC to make sure they wanted them to put it in the tranny.


OMFG! If I went through 6 days of pure dealership HE** for a rebuilt TQ I'm going to be _)#&_($&#(_*#&_)R:K :NEF{OYER(P*R PITN !!!!!!!! :evil:

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Daystar 2.0" Lift, P255/70R16 Revos, Boulder Bars, Reese Front Hitch w/9k Hooks, Poison Spyder Rock Ring, MOPAR Skids/Bug Shield/Roof Rails/Mats, WARN Hitch Shackle(Rear), 10k Hitch Hook(Front), Custom Tilt/Slope Meter, Ammo Box Mod, Rotella T 5W-40.


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 Post subject: Build sheet INFO
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:46 pm 
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I just got my build sheet emailed to me, thought it strange for them to list the Torque converter seperately...

DGQ - 5-Spd Automatic 545RFE Transmission
DHAP - Lock-Up Torque Converter

Build date was 5-11-06

Does everyones have this same code?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:15 pm 
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Oh man, I don't want a used torque converter. I almost want to stay at the dealership for the day and watch them do this and pick the tech's brain at the same time.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:11 pm 
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Bgame wrote:
Jeger wrote:
Bgame wrote:
Just talked to my service manger. He said that he just did a TC swap. The TC that was sent by DC was a rebuilt TC. He said it had painted BAD on it. Called DC and they said use it and they installed it. It was a rebuilt TC. Thank goodness it was not put in mine. Just thought this was interesting. Looks to me like this is not a new and different TC. Any thoughts out there??????


It seriously sad BAD right on it? Thats a joke, no way if I was a tech would I be putting that thing in there, even if they said it was rebuilt and good to go. :evil:

Imagine when/if the have tranny work in the future, would be an easy diagnosis to look in there and see a BAD TC wouldnt it, I would nail them on that one.


No Joke. The service manger said that is how they found out it was a rebuilt. They Called DC to make sure they wanted them to put it in the tranny.
Sounds to me more like a dealer BS story to me.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:19 pm 
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On the re-built thing I wouldn't get to worked up on that unless I knew the whole story. In most manufacturing processes today any complicated component gets a final test before going out the door. If the component fails it gets tossed to the side rather than shipping and then at somepoint goes through a remanufacture process to fix what failed the final test. It is not like the component has 100K miles on it and was reclaimed and remanufactured. My first guess is the kind of remanufacturing we would be seeing here would be more like the first case rather than the latter.

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