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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:27 pm 
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retmil46 wrote:
Using an upside-down filter housing as an air trap/separator isn't going to cure your air leaks. Main idea is to keep air from getting sucked into the fuel pump and high pressure rail. To be effective, it needs to be as close to the pump as possible, downstream of all the potential leaks, so that it can catch all the air getting into the system.

It's also going to serve as an indicator as to whether or not you do have an air leak, and need to do some troubleshooting. It will also give you an idea of just how good a job the fuel filter is doing catching all the crud/water in the system.

At best, as RFCRD said, this is a band-aid fix until you could replace the fuel lines with some quality components.


Even after proper lines are installed I would leave this attached, its such a great troubleshooter I dont know why one wasnt installed in the first place. Oh wait maybe I do.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:16 pm 
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retmil46 wrote:
Did a quick google search last night for compressed air filters, came acros the website for MSC Industrial Supply Co. Looked thru the Pneumatic filter section to see what was available.

Looks like you could get a filter housing that would work for as low as $18. I'd say go with 1/4" NPT ports, 1/4 pipe pretty well matches our 3/8" ID fuel hose, also what is on the Permacool filter I already have installed and works fine with no restriction.

They had close to 15 pages of different filters listed just under this one section. The 1/4" NPT port models are the smallest and cheapest. Height seems to range from 4 1/2" and up, diameter from 1 3/4 to 3 inches. Pressure ratings ran up to 200 psi. Plenty of them have clear polycarbonate bowls with drain fittings.

First one listed, made by Ingersoll Rand, listed for 18 and change. 1/4" NPT ports, 200 psi rating, clear polycarbonate bowl with drain fitting, 4 1/2" height, 2" diameter.

For the price, sounds like this might be a good place to start.


For those of you using biodiesel, you may want to be aware that polycarbonate won't withstand exposure to biodiesel for any appreciable length of time. So it might work as a short-term diagnostic, but I wouldn't plan on leaving it in the fuel line if you use BD or blends. Acrylics (e.g. plexiglass), clear PVC, and ether-based polyurethanes are also not good to use. EVA, HDPE, teflon, and polypropylene work well, but aren't commonly used as transparent fuel filter bowls, I'm afraid.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:22 pm 
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greiswig wrote:
retmil46 wrote:
Did a quick google search last night for compressed air filters, came acros the website for MSC Industrial Supply Co. Looked thru the Pneumatic filter section to see what was available.

Looks like you could get a filter housing that would work for as low as $18. I'd say go with 1/4" NPT ports, 1/4 pipe pretty well matches our 3/8" ID fuel hose, also what is on the Permacool filter I already have installed and works fine with no restriction.

They had close to 15 pages of different filters listed just under this one section. The 1/4" NPT port models are the smallest and cheapest. Height seems to range from 4 1/2" and up, diameter from 1 3/4 to 3 inches. Pressure ratings ran up to 200 psi. Plenty of them have clear polycarbonate bowls with drain fittings.

First one listed, made by Ingersoll Rand, listed for 18 and change. 1/4" NPT ports, 200 psi rating, clear polycarbonate bowl with drain fitting, 4 1/2" height, 2" diameter.

For the price, sounds like this might be a good place to start.


For those of you using biodiesel, you may want to be aware that polycarbonate won't withstand exposure to biodiesel for any appreciable length of time. So it might work as a short-term diagnostic, but I wouldn't plan on leaving it in the fuel line if you use BD or blends. Acrylics (e.g. plexiglass), clear PVC, and ether-based polyurethanes are also not good to use. EVA, HDPE, teflon, and polypropylene work well, but aren't commonly used as transparent fuel filter bowls, I'm afraid.


So glass it is!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:31 pm 
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Jeger wrote:
Even after proper lines are installed I would leave this attached, its such a great troubleshooter I dont know why one wasnt installed in the first place. Oh wait maybe I do.

It's unlikey this device will tell you very much. Many newer truck and bus diesels have a visible fuel filter element inside an inverted bubble. The level of the fuel (size of the air pocket) is used to gauge the condition of the filter. ie... you will see some air in the bubble regardless of an air-tight system.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:09 pm 
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Quote:
RFCRD

Joe Romas wrote:
The filter does look nice but could it worsen our sucking air problem by increasing the vacume necessary to pump the fuel

Very much so, especially if the two filter are separated (one by the engine and the other by the tank). Usually get the best results when the filters are directly in series. In cold climates, you are asking for trouble if you hang a filter in the wind near the tank.

Goglio704

Yes, if you have an air leak, an additional filter could make it worse.

Joe Romas

The filter does look nice but could it worsen our sucking air problem by increasing the vacume necessary to pump the fuel


My idea with the extra filter is based around the DCX recommendation for B20 on the military/government dodge rams. they can run B20 because they have an auxiliary diesel/water separator and apparently you need extra water stripping ability when moving from B5 to B20. see below:

http://www.gsa.gov/gsa/cm_attachments/G ... 34K-pR.pdf

also you guys were quite right about not putting this filter by the tank, per my correspondence with a RACOR tech. he suggested installing a 690R122 ($260) between the stock filter and injection pump. he said the best bet for any biodiesel is the largest capacity you can get and 2-10 micron filtering for this application.

http://shop.torresen.com/ships_store/in ... R122&frm=g


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 Post subject: Fuel filter or parts washer?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:57 pm 
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Inspected the electrical plug to the fuel heater tonight and found it wet with fuel. Removed the plug and pumped the primer twice. It shot fuel across the engine compartment. DC didn't tell us the CRD comes with a built-in parts washer.

Shouldn't this defect be reported to the NHTSA website as a possible fire hazard??? Last I checked, electrical current + fuel + heat is not a good combination.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel filter or parts washer?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:11 pm 
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RFCRD wrote:
Inspected the electrical plug to the fuel heater tonight and found it wet with fuel. Removed the plug and pumped the primer twice. It shot fuel across the engine compartment. DC didn't tell us the CRD comes with a built-in parts washer.

Shouldn't this defect be reported to the NHTSA website as a possible fire hazard??? Last I checked, electrical current + fuel + heat is not a good combination.


Be sure to take that to the dealer as soon as possible and have the manager stand in the right place when you show him the leak. :-)r

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel filter or parts washer?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:04 am 
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RFCRD wrote:
Inspected the electrical plug to the fuel heater tonight and found it wet with fuel. Removed the plug and pumped the primer twice. It shot fuel across the engine compartment. DC didn't tell us the CRD comes with a built-in parts washer.

Shouldn't this defect be reported to the NHTSA website as a possible fire hazard??? Last I checked, electrical current + fuel + heat is not a good combination.


Absolutely. Please do. I reported my TC failure that left me stranded. Every legitimate report to the NHTSA helps elevate the need for investigation of any safety issues. A fire on a fuel filter of that size right in front of the driver could be deadly. Less than 16 inches in front of the fuel filter is the battery.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:36 am 
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Diesel doesn't have the same safety hazards as gas. A leak like that with gas would almost guarantee a fire. It takes a lot to get diesel burning in the open.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:09 pm 
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Fuel leaks of any kind are looked on as a safety hazard by the NHTSA as they should be, regardless of the flash point of the fuel. In the recent past, I noticed a very strong diesel odor while driving and checked under the hood. I found one of the electrical connectors in the fuel filter head smoking, yes smoking and diesel boiling off the connector into a smoke like steam. I pulled the connector and it was so hot that the insulation on the wires melted slightly into a flat shape when I touched them. I pulled the connector and cleaned it and the socket of diesel fuel - the plastic plug heat discolored from the heat. I have not had this happen since then, but I keep an eye on it as this clearly was not normal. This happened before any posts started showing up on this forum on the same area. Mine is currently not leaking like some have reported here, but I am seeing the beginning of a trend that involves leaking fuel.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:09 pm 
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Quote:
Diesel doesn't have the same safety hazards as gas. A leak like that with gas would almost guarantee a fire. It takes a lot to get diesel burning in the open.


Very true, I once welded a full fuel tank that was leaking. It takes a hot fire or some pressure to ignite diesel. The jeep shouldn't be leaking fuel though. I will have to check mine when the filter is changed.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:23 pm 
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onthehunt wrote:
Quote:
Diesel doesn't have the same safety hazards as gas. A leak like that with gas would almost guarantee a fire. It takes a lot to get diesel burning in the open.


Very true, I once welded a full fuel tank that was leaking. It takes a hot fire or some pressure to ignite diesel. The jeep shouldn't be leaking fuel though. I will have to check mine when the filter is changed.

Actually you don't need to change the filter to check this. Simply unplug the electrical connectors then depress the primer pump a few times. Once you build some back-pressure, it will leak out of the plug sockets if you have the problem.

I have a feeling this is where the air is getting sucked into the system although a tight seal around the plugs connectors will help keep the air out.

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 Post subject: Go bleed your fuel filter today
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:21 am 
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This morning I got off my rump and checked the connectors on the fuel filter for leaks. I pushed the plumger and no leaks :D Then I put a hose on the bleed nipple and opened it up. I heard air excaping even before I pushed the plunger. I pumped forever till I got clear fuel only :shock: I then took it for a test ride. Previously I had made sure the clamps and banjo fittings were tight. Keep in mind I've had surging since day one. I noticed instant response from a stop. No 53 MPG when letting off bucking. No steady speed 70 mph unevenness :!: I should have checked it long ago :cry: A new car feeling :) Having had many diesels before I know the things a air leak will cause but they were $200 VW's and not a NEW DC product :evil: So what's downstream of the fuel filter that I need to check :?:

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 Post subject: Re: Go bleed your fuel filter today
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:38 am 
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Joe Romas wrote:
This morning I got off my rump and checked the connectors on the fuel filter for leaks. I pushed the plumger and no leaks :D Then I put a hose on the bleed nipple and opened it up. I heard air excaping even before I pushed the plunger. I pumped forever till I got clear fuel only :shock: I then took it for a test ride. Previously I had made sure the clamps and banjo fittings were tight. Keep in mind I've had surging since day one. I noticed instant response from a stop. No 53 MPG when letting off bucking. No steady speed 70 mph unevenness :!: I should have checked it long ago :cry: A new car feeling :) Having had many diesels before I know the things a air leak will cause but they were $200 VW's and not a NEW DC product :evil: So what's downstream of the fuel filter that I need to check :?:

Inspect the hose clamp connection at the pump. It's a PITA to reach the clamp.

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 Post subject: Re: Go bleed your fuel filter today
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:52 am 
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RFCRD wrote:
Joe Romas wrote:
This morning I got off my rump and checked the connectors on the fuel filter for leaks. I pushed the plumger and no leaks :D Then I put a hose on the bleed nipple and opened it up. I heard air excaping even before I pushed the plunger. I pumped forever till I got clear fuel only :shock: I then took it for a test ride. Previously I had made sure the clamps and banjo fittings were tight. Keep in mind I've had surging since day one. I noticed instant response from a stop. No 53 MPG when letting off bucking. No steady speed 70 mph unevenness :!: I should have checked it long ago :cry: A new car feeling :) Having had many diesels before I know the things a air leak will cause but they were $200 VW's and not a NEW DC product :evil: So what's downstream of the fuel filter that I need to check :?:

Inspect the hose clamp connection at the pump. It's a PITA to reach the clamp.


Thanks, I did that when I checked the banjo bolts and the other two clamps. The head of the clamp on my pump was sticking up so I could put a long screw driver right down between the small space onto the clamp :!: Sombody was thinking of me when they did that :D

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 Post subject: Re: Go bleed your fuel filter today
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:14 am 
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Joe Romas wrote:
This morning I got off my rump and checked the connectors on the fuel filter for leaks. I pushed the plumger and no leaks :D Then I put a hose on the bleed nipple and opened it up. I heard air excaping even before I pushed the plunger. I pumped forever till I got clear fuel only :shock: I then took it for a test ride. Previously I had made sure the clamps and banjo fittings were tight. Keep in mind I've had surging since day one. I noticed instant response from a stop. No 53 MPG when letting off bucking. No steady speed 70 mph unevenness :!: I should have checked it long ago :cry: A new car feeling :) Having had many diesels before I know the things a air leak will cause but they were $200 VW's and not a NEW DC product :evil: So what's downstream of the fuel filter that I need to check :?:


Try an expansion of your test and you may find your air leak. Do what you did before and purge the air out of the filter. Then unplug the electrical plugs and pump the primer with the bleeder closed. If I read your post right, you checked for leaks when you had air in the system. Once the air is gone, you'll spot a leak much easier.

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 Post subject: Re: Go bleed your fuel filter today
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:20 am 
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Goglio704 wrote:
Joe Romas wrote:
This morning I got off my rump and checked the connectors on the fuel filter for leaks. I pushed the plumger and no leaks :D Then I put a hose on the bleed nipple and opened it up. I heard air excaping even before I pushed the plunger. I pumped forever till I got clear fuel only :shock: I then took it for a test ride. Previously I had made sure the clamps and banjo fittings were tight. Keep in mind I've had surging since day one. I noticed instant response from a stop. No 53 MPG when letting off bucking. No steady speed 70 mph unevenness :!: I should have checked it long ago :cry: A new car feeling :) Having had many diesels before I know the things a air leak will cause but they were $200 VW's and not a NEW DC product :evil: So what's downstream of the fuel filter that I need to check :?:


Try an expansion of your test and you may find your air leak. Do what you did before and purge the air out of the filter. Then unplug the electrical plugs and pump the primer with the bleeder closed. If I read your post right, you checked for leaks when you had air in the system. Once the air is gone, you'll spot a leak much easier.


Good thought Matt, you read it correctly :!: Being the filter had lots of air in it all I would have seen is air :roll: I guess the second cup of coffee hadn't kicked in yet :wink: I'll try again later.
thanks
Joe

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:13 pm 
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Last night at Home Depot I picked up a compressed air filter and the necessary fittings, total cost $35. It does have a polycarbonate bowl with metal guard, figure this will work well enough for proof of concept. From the paperwork included with the filter, you can order a metal replacement bowl with glass sight indicator for this same unit.

They had smaller filters with 1/4" NPT ports for $11, but the bowl was so short and small diameter (only about 4" total height for the whole unit) that it didn't look like it would have enough volume to perform as intended.

I went with the larger model with 3/8" NPT ports for $20. About 7 to 8 inches total height, a good sized bowl with a removeable filter and manual drain valve on the bottom.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:17 pm 
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retmil46 wrote:
Last night at Home Depot I picked up a compressed air filter and the necessary fittings, total cost $35. It does have a polycarbonate bowl with metal guard, figure this will work well enough for proof of concept. From the paperwork included with the filter, you can order a metal replacement bowl with glass sight indicator for this same unit.

They had smaller filters with 1/4" NPT ports for $11, but the bowl was so short and small diameter (only about 4" total height for the whole unit) that it didn't look like it would have enough volume to perform as intended.

I went with the larger model with 3/8" NPT ports for $20. About 7 to 8 inches total height, a good sized bowl with a removeable filter and manual drain valve on the bottom.
Humm, that was what I was getting ready to do when one of the guys here wanted to try my design idea for CCV filter. I did it once for a friends TDI and it worked fine, looked a little Mickey Mouse, but as I said it worked just fine.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:23 pm 
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Forgot to mention that I did a mileage check yesterday and the CRD brought home 28 mpg with about 10% in town and 1/2 dozen runs to 85+ MPH to pass slow movers, and normal cruising speed was 73 mph with CC locked. Love the 50 cetane ULSD so far, truck is quite and really peppy as a few have found out, including a Ford Excape that didn't want me to pass him.

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