New Customer Satisfaction Recall - F37

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:03 pm

irunmiles wrote:

Dropped my 05 CRD to the dealer yesterday for the ball joint and TC recalls. Just got a call from the service manager saying my PCM crapped out when they tried to do the reprogram. The part is on factory backorder and they have no idea how long it will be. Luckily, I have a loaner Jeep from them. Has anybody else experienced this situation?

There's been many instances of that and also being unable to flash them :shock:

With the latter the car is still drivable, it just can't get it's TCM updated :roll:

Many things can cause it. The battery needs to be connected to a charger, the dealer's pc needs to have the latest cable and software and the tech needs to know what he's doing to name a few :roll:

On the ones that won't upgrade it seems to be a problem with the vehicle :?:

RFCRD · **Posted:** Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:47 pm

irunmiles wrote:

Dropped my 05 CRD to the dealer yesterday for the ball joint and TC recalls. Just got a call from the service manager saying my PCM crapped out when they tried to do the reprogram. The part is on factory backorder and they have no idea how long it will be. Luckily, I have a loaner Jeep from them. Has anybody else experienced this situation?

Yep, been there - done that, every time I have mine on their computer. They can't get a data connection to the TCM. Save yourself some downtime, have your dealer get one with the software pre-loaded (STAR knows the drill).

donlvnv · **Posted:** Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:00 am

I had the f37 done and they had to replace the ECM also. I am now having to take it back tuesday for it is stalling when i come to a full stop from about 20 mph. It acts just like when I had the old transmission filter in it and all the fluid would drain down at night.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:47 am

donlvnv wrote:

I had the f37 done and they had to replace the ECM also. I am now having to take it back tuesday for it is stalling when i come to a full stop from about 20 mph. It acts just like when I had the old transmission filter in it and all the fluid would drain down at night.

Did they do a pump replacement with the recall?

I talked to the CRD tech yesterday. He told me he had to rework an F37 job because they could not get a positive seal with the old pump resulting in a leaker. The problem is they just don't know they got a leaker until it is reassembled and driven. I asked for the replacement pump on mine which was the first one they installed. After the leaker incident, they are insisting on new pumps when doing this recall.

Ripster · **Posted:** Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:54 am

I also got the pump and no leaks yet, a couple of drops when I checked from the dealer, but it stopped
right away. I do not have the flash yet, as it would not take. This is what Star stated. If you try to flash
with the Optima battery in place, it will fail. (I had two successful flashes before) Their recommended way
is to replace the battery with a regular battery, because if it fails once, you will have to have a new tranny
module. Had another Jeep do it right behind mine, so I let them experiment with that one. He got a new
module with the flash in it, and they ordered the same thing for mine. Runs great now, I will be able to
try both modules when it gets here.

My dealership is closing. They have a complete set of the special tools for the 2.8L Diesel from Chrysler. Unbroken in 4 cases
with one $40 update. Original cost $2000. Now if you want them you will have to offer more than Chrysler
on the buy back, and I must have the money in hand on that day. They allready have the tools for the Bluetec
and that set is $1300. No wonder my dealership is closing, all these costs whether they sell a car or not.

DnA Diesel · **Posted:** Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:09 pm

RF, Ripster, is the converter pump a deal-cost item?

The dealer did not replace my old pump when they did F37, because the service adjuster said they didn't hear anything (per F37, page 5, Part A, Step 3 (replace pump if converter makes rattling noise in N or P)) I told them that the transmission would rattle sometimes in N or P, usually first thing in the morning. They told me they'd look at it.

Seems stupid not to replace the pump on spec if they had the whole thing apart to R&R the converter anyway, but I know there are some things that are full warranty paid by DCX and others that the dealer has to partially or fully pay for, so I don't know if the pump was one of them.

What should I be looking for regarding leaking since I still have the old pump? Is it right at the seam between the front transmission housing and the engine?

TIA

Cheers,
Duey

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:03 pm

Ripster wrote:

I also got the pump and no leaks yet, a couple of drops when I checked from the dealer, but it stopped
right away. I do not have the flash yet, as it would not take. This is what Star stated. If you try to flash
with the Optima battery in place, it will fail. (I had two successful flashes before) Their recommended way
is to replace the battery with a regular battery, because if it fails once, you will have to have a new tranny
module. Had another Jeep do it right behind mine, so I let them experiment with that one. He got a new
module with the flash in it, and they ordered the same thing for mine. Runs great now, I will be able to
try both modules when it gets here.

My dealership is closing. They have a complete set of the special tools for the 2.8L Diesel from Chrysler. Unbroken in 4 cases
with one $40 update. Original cost $2000. Now if you want them you will have to offer more than Chrysler
on the buy back, and I must have the money in hand on that day. They allready have the tools for the Bluetec
and that set is $1300. No wonder my dealership is closing, all these costs whether they sell a car or not.

That $1300 is about 1/4 of the price the dealership paid for the STARScan (I assume that's what you are refering to) and yes it is why so many indy shops have closed over the last few years. Call 573-785-5769 (Larry Hillis Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep & Sprinter) ask for Joe Riley (GM) or Duke Hansen (SM) they are expanding and may be interested in the tools.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:07 pm

DnA Diesel wrote:

RF, Ripster, is the converter pump a deal-cost item?

The dealer did not replace my old pump when they did F37, because the service adjuster said they didn't hear anything (per F37, page 5, Part A, Step 3 (replace pump if converter makes rattling noise in N or P)) I told them that the transmission would rattle sometimes in N or P, usually first thing in the morning. They told me they'd look at it.

Seems stupid not to replace the pump on spec if they had the whole thing apart to R&R the converter anyway, but I know there are some things that are full warranty paid by DCX and others that the dealer has to partially or fully pay for, so I don't know if the pump was one of them.

What should I be looking for regarding leaking since I still have the old pump? Is it right at the seam between the front transmission housing and the engine?

TIA

Cheers,
Duey

The tranny case is not diassemblied to replace the TC, it is for the pump. Takes lot more time to take tranny apart then it does just to drop it and remove the TC and install a new one. From what I understand it pays the same for the tech if he just does the TC as it would if he pulled the tranny apart to R&R pump, I would not be happy doing that either. That is why most likely that dealerships/tec's are not putting in the TC if they can avoid doing it. Can't blame them really, twice the work for same pay as TC change out.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:18 pm

DnA Diesel wrote:

RF, Ripster, is the converter pump a deal-cost item?

The dealer did not replace my old pump when they did F37, because the service adjuster said they didn't hear anything (per F37, page 5, Part A, Step 3 (replace pump if converter makes rattling noise in N or P)) I told them that the transmission would rattle sometimes in N or P, usually first thing in the morning. They told me they'd look at it.

Seems stupid not to replace the pump on spec if they had the whole thing apart to R&R the converter anyway, but I know there are some things that are full warranty paid by DCX and others that the dealer has to partially or fully pay for, so I don't know if the pump was one of them.

What should I be looking for regarding leaking since I still have the old pump? Is it right at the seam between the front transmission housing and the engine?

TIA

Cheers,
Duey

There is an entire thread on the pump-seal problem (which is not CRD specific, know someone with an '05 Ram having the same problem). Basically the front-pump seal leaks causing a reduction/loss of hydraulic pressure which controls the lock-up clutch. Working under reduced hyraulic pressure is believed to be the cause of the shuddering and eventually failure of the torque converter clutch, which causes metal fragmentation, which causes clogged transmission cooler lines & filter, which causes oil starvation failure/overheat of the transmission. Last Summer, DC released a new redesigned pump and seal which is detailed in the recall paperwork. Should also note that the new pump and new oil cooler come packaged together as a kit (imagine that!). What is required is a lot more work, transmission has to be partially dissassembled along with the front grill & A/C area to install the cooler.

I got the new pump with the recall because I was already complaining about erratic transmission behavior (which of course couldn't be duplicated). Actually asked for a quote and offered to pay for the redesigned pump. Was already threatening to sue for a refund long before the F31 or F37 recalls surfaced and really didn't give them much of a choice.

DnA Diesel · **Posted:** Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:25 pm

oldnavy wrote:

DnA Diesel wrote:

RF, Ripster, is the converter pump a deal-cost item?

The dealer did not replace my old pump when they did F37, because the service adjuster said they didn't hear anything (per F37, page 5, Part A, Step 3 (replace pump if converter makes rattling noise in N or P)) I told them that the transmission would rattle sometimes in N or P, usually first thing in the morning. They told me they'd look at it.

Seems stupid not to replace the pump on spec if they had the whole thing apart to R&R the converter anyway, but I know there are some things that are full warranty paid by DCX and others that the dealer has to partially or fully pay for, so I don't know if the pump was one of them.

What should I be looking for regarding leaking since I still have the old pump? Is it right at the seam between the front transmission housing and the engine?

TIA

Cheers,
Duey

The tranny case is not diassemblied to replace the TC, it is for the pump. Takes lot more time to take tranny apart then it does just to drop it and remove the TC and install a new one. From what I understand it pays the same for the tech if he just does the TC as it would if he pulled the tranny apart to R&R pump, I would not be happy doing that either. That is why most likely that dealerships/tec's are not putting in the TC if they can avoid doing it. Can't blame them really, twice the work for same pay as TC change out.

But now, if the pump fials, they could end up having to redo the whole thing anyway, and also replace a tranny?

Should I also be checking to see if the original dealer had the cooler replacement done, as I got the vehicle as a deomnstrator at 15,000km?

Cheers,
Duey

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:47 pm

DnA Diesel wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

DnA Diesel wrote:

RF, Ripster, is the converter pump a deal-cost item?

The dealer did not replace my old pump when they did F37, because the service adjuster said they didn't hear anything (per F37, page 5, Part A, Step 3 (replace pump if converter makes rattling noise in N or P)) I told them that the transmission would rattle sometimes in N or P, usually first thing in the morning. They told me they'd look at it.

Seems stupid not to replace the pump on spec if they had the whole thing apart to R&R the converter anyway, but I know there are some things that are full warranty paid by DCX and others that the dealer has to partially or fully pay for, so I don't know if the pump was one of them.

What should I be looking for regarding leaking since I still have the old pump? Is it right at the seam between the front transmission housing and the engine?

TIA

Cheers,
Duey

The tranny case is not diassemblied to replace the TC, it is for the pump. Takes lot more time to take tranny apart then it does just to drop it and remove the TC and install a new one. From what I understand it pays the same for the tech if he just does the TC as it would if he pulled the tranny apart to R&R pump, I would not be happy doing that either. That is why most likely that dealerships/tec's are not putting in the TC if they can avoid doing it. Can't blame them really, twice the work for same pay as TC change out.

But now, if the pump fials, they could end up having to redo the whole thing anyway, and also replace a tranny?

Should I also be checking to see if the original dealer had the cooler replacement done, as I got the vehicle as a deomnstrator at 15,000km?

Cheers,
Duey

Got the impression that my dealer ate the rework labor on the F37 leaker and is why they are now insisting on new pumps if they have to do more recalls.

Demonstrator??? That's like referring to an ex-executive as a business consultant.

I would try to obtain the entire maintenance history if you can. Personally don't buy the "demonstrator" story on a discontinued vehicle. One quick way to tell, usually a demo would be titled straight from an original MSO (never titled, not even in the dealer's name). More likely it's a buy-back and you would be wise to find the history. If it was a demo, your dealer would have done all the service work and kept records.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:56 pm

RFCRD wrote:

Demonstrator??? That's like referring to an ex-executive as a business consultant.

I would try to obtain the entire maintenance history if you can. Personally don't buy the "demonstrator" story on a discontinued vehicle. One quick way to tell, usually a demo would be titled straight from an original MSO (never titled, not even in the dealer's name). More likely it's a buy-back and you would be wise to find the history. If it was a demo, your dealer would have done all the service work and kept records.

If it was a buy back it has to be sold as used not new because it was titled, a demo is not tittled and when sold is sold as new vehicle.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

Got the impression that my dealer ate the rework labor on the F37 leaker and is why they are now insisting on new pumps if they have to do more recalls.

I was told by the tech that worked on my TSB's that if any return work resulted from the TSB, DC would not reimburse them for it. that's part of the reason for hesitation to perform TSB's unless they absolutely have to. It all gets back to how DC handles warranty and TSB reimbursment work with the dealerships.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:14 pm

oldnavy wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

Demonstrator??? That's like referring to an ex-executive as a business consultant.

I would try to obtain the entire maintenance history if you can. Personally don't buy the "demonstrator" story on a discontinued vehicle. One quick way to tell, usually a demo would be titled straight from an original MSO (never titled, not even in the dealer's name). More likely it's a buy-back and you would be wise to find the history. If it was a demo, your dealer would have done all the service work and kept records.

If it was a buy back it has to be sold as used not new because it was titled, a demo is not tittled and when sold is sold as new vehicle.

We played all kinds of games with this when I sold commercial buses. Looks used on paper but is a demo for the dealer's purpose. Just a way to launder the paperwork.
One thing I overlooked is vehicle titling is different in Canada. ehh???

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:19 pm

RFCRD wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

Demonstrator??? That's like referring to an ex-executive as a business consultant.

I would try to obtain the entire maintenance history if you can. Personally don't buy the "demonstrator" story on a discontinued vehicle. One quick way to tell, usually a demo would be titled straight from an original MSO (never titled, not even in the dealer's name). More likely it's a buy-back and you would be wise to find the history. If it was a demo, your dealer would have done all the service work and kept records.

If it was a buy back it has to be sold as used not new because it was titled, a demo is not tittled and when sold is sold as new vehicle.

One thing I overlooked is vehicle titling is different in Canada. ehh???

Probably is. probably is. :wink:

Ripster · **Posted:** Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:28 pm

Lots of posts since my last read, DNA my pump was replaced with the TQ because the dealership
was proactive, and has two transmission mechanics who wanted to do this only once. My work
order read like the recall, get my drift! Anyway cured everything so far and no leaks at the seam,
or anywhere else.

DnA Diesel · **Posted:** Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:48 pm

Matt, it was the service manager who drove it since its in-service date in May '06. It's title was registered once and only to the dealership. I bought it out of town where I was working on contract, so I'm having all the work done at one of my home town's two 5-Star (hmmm?) dealerships.

Ripster, I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt to the dealership and not try to micromanage the assessment of what work (recall, campaign, TSB) had been done to date. I'm trying to get a feeling for whether they are going to be a positive experience or not...the service writer seemed a bit put out having to get a rental for me for the day it took to do the work....only $25 to the dealer since I know the Manager at Enterprise where they rented the cars from...service writer made it seem like it was moving a mountain or something... My mind is still not made up on whether I will be going to the dealership to do my "Schedule B" servicing (which seems pretty short, every 5,000km (3,000mi)) or whether I will follow the schedule in the actual Owner's Manual, which has 10km servicing intervals. My tendancy is to do my own work if the guys at the dealership don't show a little more inclination to solve my problems. I figure dealers, especially those who didn't sell the vehicle originally make most of their profit on servicing, in particular when the diffs and x-fer case are serviced. If the guys don't make me feel happy about what's going on with solving my issues (now mostly horrendous mileage, 15mpg in city, 21-22mpg hwy) then I have no problem telling them I'll be carefully doing my own work and keeping records so there are no warranty issues. They may not give a fig, but hey...I'm not about to pay for ineptitude!

Cheers,
Duey

JeepGalPeg · **Posted:** Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:47 pm

I've been putting off having the F37 recall done because I didn't want to be the guinea pig. I also haven't been too pleased with the level of "customer service" from the dealership I purchased the vehicle from so I tracked down another area dealership that is not only a 5-Star dealership, but also a member of the local Better Business Bureau. They are ordering the parts today and will let me know when they're in. The next words out of the Service Associate's mouth were a nice surprise! "We should be able to complete the work in a day, but if we can't, just drop back by and we'll set you up in a rental." Looks like I won't have to jump through hoops on that issue! I also inquired on how many vehicles they have serviced for the F37, and he said that he personally has handled 15 of them. That too is a relief!

bigiron · **Posted:** Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:25 pm

I sent Jeep an email basically asking what is up with the "slight torque reduction" mentioned in the F37 document. I received the following reply within 2 days:
****************
"Dear Brian:

Thank you for contacting the Chrysler Group Customer Assistance Center.

Recall F37 is not an overall reduction in torque. The recall is for the
management of the torque to enhance torque converter and transmission
durability. This management of the torque will not affect the towing
capability of the vehicle.
Engine information shown is as follows:

Horsepower (SAE net @ rpm) - 160 @ 3,800

Torque (net lb-ft @ rpm) - 295 @ 1,800

.....

Please take a copy of this message with you at the time of service.

Thanks again for your email.

Sincerely,

Sam

Senior Staff Representative
Chrysler Group Customer Assistance Center"
**********

This was not a very technical response, but it does help my feelings some.
Brian

MoLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:08 am

I got the bright idea to run the CRD through the car wash the night before heading out on a 500 mile Christmas trip, and as I pulled out of the wash the CEL came on... GREAT! :roll:

I ran it up the road and the transmission was shifting like a turd out of the block. So... out with the trusty code reader and I find code 770 and 777. A quick glance through the list and found the both to be transmission related, so I decided to load up the wife's minivan for the trip and drop the Jeep off on my way out of town. I told the service manager what I saw, and he mentioned the F37 before I got a chance to. (They had one in the shop, and another two completed at that point)

That was 12/20/06, and I got back into town on 12/26. Called up the SM and he said the TCM was fried. He indicated that of the three CRD's they had done, two didn't take the flash. However, mine had a shorted wire when I brought it in. Of course, the part was on backorder, but with minimal prodding he set me up with a loaner. (Mercury sable... BLA...) The part finally came in this morning, and they had the tranny out when I went by at 5 PM. If all goes well, I should have the little mosquito killer back by tomorrow night.

I have to admit that waiting on the part for three weeks hasn't exactly thrilled me, but the dealership has done all they could. I saw the other white CRD waiting for the same part parked next to mine, so I don't think they were BSing. I'll check the fluid level closely when I leave tomorrow and will let you guys know how it runs.

New Customer Satisfaction Recall - F37

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