I was about to say that: When you leave the stealer make sure to check the fluid level!!!!! When I had my TC replaced a couple of months ago my tranny fluid was so low it didnt even show up on the dipstick.

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2005 CRD Sport
Mods: Glasspack, OME HD Struts & Springs, 2" Daystar lift,
255/70/16 General Grabber AT2's on MOAB's
ORM&EHM with great success!
TJM T17 Bumper, 50W KC HID's

That's interesting. It does suggest that one theory that has been floating around might have some truth to it. That theory was the one where the torque was only reduced/managed during shifting.

I wonder if it would be possible to email Sam back and get some more specifics answered. You know - maybe get some more clarification as to what he meant by "management of the torque to enhance torque converter and transmission durability." Does that mean reducing/managing torque during shifting? Does it mean playing around with stall speeds or shift points? Does that mean changes to torque curve programming?

Granted this all is still technically hearsay. But it's nice to know that there is the possibility that the original H.P./Torque specifications are being maintained. It's also nice to know that Sam say's towing will not be affected. However, another area where Diesels are advantageous is getting heavy loads rolling from a stop (an area where I believe stall speeds are important). I wonder what impact F37 has had on that. Maybe Sam could shed some light?

You know - if would be nice if DCX would be more forthcoming with info - as Sam has attempted to do here. It might go a long way at cooling tempers and interest in law suits. Especially if the changes are as innocuous as Sam's email suggests.

I just got the F37 recall done the other day. Shift points are definatly higher, have to hit 3k rpm to get going. before it shifts, definatly feels exactly how DZL_LOU explained it. Drives like a gasser now. I really hate this latest recall. Ill be stopping by the dealer today to voice my complaints.

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05 Liberty Sport CRD
Glasspack Muffler

Did you get just the torque converter swap and reflash, or the full deal with the pump and cooler as well?

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Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

I got the TC and, pcm and tcm flash. Its horrible. No more low end power, gotta wind it up to about 3000 rpm to get going. Used be able to keep it about 2000 rpm and have a ton of power. Now its gone.

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05 Liberty Sport CRD
Glasspack Muffler

Yeah, I have to agree that the CRD engine now has to turn RPM's much like a gasser. Diesel's typically don't like to high revs. I rarely had to go above 2,500 rpm pre-flash. While the revs are good for the TC pump in pushing more fluid to keep it cool, it really behaves more like a V-6 in revs than the old CRD pre-flash.
I guess the software guys took a stub of code from the gasser TCM module and just inserted it into the CRD TCM module.

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2005 Black CRD Limited w/105,000 miles
Mann Provent 200, Airbox Mod, ORM Mod
New 545RFE, TC & Redesigned pump @ 25,020 miles
New EGR Flow Control Valve @ 25,020 miles
New Transfer Case input/output seals @ 32,787 miles
SEGR Kit @ 52,000 miles
SunCoast TC and Transgo Shift Kit @ 52,000 miles

DZL_LOU,
Is the power loss as noticble to you? You think its something we just have to get used to?

I just wonder if its even worth complaining to the dealer about.

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05 Liberty Sport CRD
Glasspack Muffler

In my opinion, do not complain to the dealer but start complaining directly to DCX Customer Relations and to DCX Warranty Operations. I did some talking to some people and there indeed is a torque decrease on the engine side that's necessary for TC durability (I have the numbers but can't share for obvious reasons). That isn't cool in my book - not something you should "get used to". The more unhappy calls they get, the more/faster things will get done.

Do you have those phone numbers handy? Same as on Jeeps website?

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05 Liberty Sport CRD
Glasspack Muffler

Well I had the F37 done with only a TC replacement done, and now I have an appointment Monday to have it check for pump failure and replacement. The tranny has started clanging when shifting from drive to park or drive to reverse and has not wanted to move when you go to take off. Dealerdhip says two days for the repairs, if this don't fix the darn thing I may go down the road as a trade in on a Dodge Charger. I would really like to keep it as a tow vehicle foor a future motor home and just in case it is needed for snow storm.

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91 MB 300D 2.5L Turbo. Her's

05 MB E320 CDI. Mine

So what you are saying is that good old Sam the Senior Staff Representative from the Chrysler Group Customer Assistance Center was full of CaCa in his email to Brian (see previous post above)? Cause according to Sam - the CRD's specifications remain intact after the F37 fix is done.

Of course with all these people talking to people who have sources that know people, it's hard to tell what's CaCa and what's not. So, with that in mind - Who are your people and what credibility do they have?

You can't share the numbers because of obvious reasons? What reasons? Maybe I'm just slow when it comes to obvious things...

Sorry if I seem a little snippy - it's not meant to be directed at you. But, I’m getting tired of all this. I would appreciate it if DCX would just enlighten us all with some official/certifiable/irrefutable facts. Keep wishing eh....

The information I got was from colleagues who worked on the F37 calibration releases and from the data that I was shown.

DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center
1-800-992-1997
M-F 8:00AM-5:00PM (Continental Time Zones)

I would start my calls with this group, tell them that you are unhappy about the language in the CSN and that you want exact numbers as to how much the torque output of the engine was reduced and where. The key to the complaint is telling them that after the F37 software flashes you are now unable to comfortably tow the same equipment that you were able to before the flash. Tell them that the performance derate of the engine is the last straw in a string of reliability issues with the vehicle and that you would like to pursue buyback options from DCX if answers are not forthcoming in another service bulletin update with the information. If the people at the customer assitance center are unable to help you, ask for the number or be transferred to the manager of Warranty Operations or Powertrain Service Center.

I do not want to be (can't be) the one to provide the answers since it's not my position to officially do so. I am just stating that the correct answers do exist, you just need to find the "appropriate" person to talk to.

And it is probably important to make sure you do NOT include anything about where you got the suggestion to call this number, who the person was who suggested it, or anything other than a very VERY generic reference to the performance derate...perhaps to a "friend who works in the industry who says otherwise" if they say that there is no reduction in torque. It would be a shame to get a good friend fired for telling the truth. Thanks, MrM. You're sticking your neck out, and I appreciate it.

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George Reiswig
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
Suncoast, SEGR, lift, InMotion tune, homebrew B100
At 138k, new head & gasket, timing belt, rockers and swearing vocabulary

MrM.

Any idea what is different on the 06 models that are not getting the F37 recall? Did ours come already detuned maybe

thanks for your help
Joe

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Atlantic Blue 06 CRD Limited (his)
Joined by a 2000 XJ Classic (hers)

That's interesting and disheartening. If the info coming from your colleagues is indeed factual then it appears that we are indeed being screwed and good old Sam is indeed full of $hi*!. You are saying that Sam is full of it - right? Just to be absolutely clear....



I'm inclined to call/email/write and demand specifics regarding the de-rated torque (I’m not holding out any hope that they will accede to my demands), but I'm not currently in a position to employ your 'key' as backing for my demand. Right now I'm not towing a thing. I have plans that will require 'rated' towing capacity in the future. I'm just not there yet. So I can't honestly claim the loss of ability that you suggest I claim. The problem with suggesting a buyback is that I really don't want a buyback. I like the vehicle. If they really want me to be "satisfied", then give me what I want - which is a 'real' fix to this problem that maintains original specifications and performance. Call me crazy but that doesn't sound unreasonable to me.



That's sounds reasonable and I can appreciate your position. Still I would like to get you in Spock's presences so that a Vulcan mind meld could be administered. I would really like to have the facts so that we had some certainty as to what we are dealing with.

Well I will give you a fact. My fuel mileage went to he11 in a hand basket. And now it feels like it will not pull a string out of a cats stupid. I love my CRD but I don't like the service I am getting from DCX.

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O|||||||O

LOST #-169388
'79 CJ-5
32x11.50x15
304 V8

'08 Chevorlet HHR
Victory Red
Stock for now.

LOL!.... Love it...

Then clean you turbo boost control sensor in the intake and it might leap out from under you. I had the F37 with no difference in power I coiuld tell, however it didn't seem as peppy as it did new even before the F37 and flash upgrades. Now after cleaning the boost sensor, it starts easier, it is a rocket from the moment you slap the peddle down, that said the tranny is headed toward self destruction.

I am somewhat PO'ed that D/C really screwed up with the tranny choise for this vehicle and seems to be waiting for the owners to dump them so they are not out the big bucks of recall or warranty repairs. The wife is wanting to trade the CRD off for a Charger, but the trade value is so low that all the equity we had at purchase time has evaporated and now we would be lucky to get pay off.

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91 MB 300D 2.5L Turbo. Her's

05 MB E320 CDI. Mine

Old Navy I did that already. Changed the Air Box to a '03, Still no power. I don't know what happened. If the Lemon Law thing does not work then I will go to the next step in my opinion. Which is to treat it like my '79. Wheel, Break, rebuild and repeat. I really like this motor. From what I understand they are great motors. At least untill DCX got there hands on them. I wist that Carl Banks would do some stuff for the CRD.

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O|||||||O

LOST #-169388
'79 CJ-5
32x11.50x15
304 V8

'08 Chevorlet HHR
Victory Red
Stock for now.

Well put! With it revving as high as it is now I can see my mileage going to heck. At least with the higher RPM's it kind of sounds like a Japanese vehicle with the glasspack!

Thanks for the info MrMopar, I appreciate all the info and help.
Definatly dont risk your carrer for our little crd. Hopefully youll be the one to change the industry.

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05 Liberty Sport CRD
Glasspack Muffler