Aftermarket CRD TC/Tranny/TCM Info

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:53 am

Ripple wrote:

I think we all knew (or could have guessed) that there would be issues with the '05/06 CRD, but perhaps not to this extent. all chrysler vehicles are quirky. ball joints, messed up trannies and CEL problems go back to the early 90's with regularity in many models. but Like you I bought to run BIO/SVO. I didn't know that SVO was still experimental on common-rail diesel and there is only one kit available. I will probably make my own two tank system over the summer.

I don't have any tanny woes, and I drive real easy, so i should be able to hold on a rebuild till 100K, but i am following this thread with great interest and eventually look forward to a review of an aftermarket TC/Pump/rebuild/programming job.

Well I went by the fact that this vehicle (CRD) has been on the market in Europe from day one and that reliability should be no problem. I didn't buy it to run SVO, maybe B2 to B20 at most, it was bought for the wife to drive to work and a be able to go in t snow when we had some. Otherwise it was bought because her ars was not dragging the ground like it did in the VW Jetta TDI. :roll:

Our CRD is by no means driven hard, has never towed anything, and not even been off road, and at 22,000 miles the tranny is slowly headed toward self destruction. Maybe I am wrong about the TC and pump being the fix, but I didn't buy the $26,000 CRD to be a shop queen and have me worrying will it fail me some dark night in the rain or snow.

I have a Dodge Magnum that I expected to be some quirks and problem with that has turned out to be bullet proof and the least problematic car I have ever bought new, with the possible exception of our old '87 Jeep Cherokee that I sold a couple of years back and is still going strong at 300K miles and has never had head or tranny touched.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:20 pm

Just talked with Ron at Suncoast Transmissions. Definitely got a warm fuzzy that when these guys are done, we'll have a well-built torque converter.

Ron hadn't known about the new pump and cooler that were part of the recall. He said he was going to contact the local CJD dealer and see if he could get ahold of them, if nothing else to do a side-by-side comparison with what was presently in the vehicles, and see what had been changed.

I mentioned what the gent at PATC had relayed to me about the seals. He said that could be a problem, if the o-rings/seals weren't made out of Viton or something better, they would end up getting hard and leaking in short order.

I told him there had been several reports of people getting just the TC replaced, then having to go back to have the pump and cooler changed as well because the new TC wasn't mating up correctly with the seals on the old pump and leaking. He said that sounded as if they had indeed changed something on the new pump and/or seals.

He said they should be getting started into this hot and heavy around the first of February. He wants to wait until their test vehicle arrives and start getting some real data so as to get everything right. He said that if you make the converter too tight, ie, too low a stall speed, it would kill low end acceleration, dogging the engine before it started developing torque, even though it would go like gangbusters once rolling. He wants to find the best compromise for low end accel while preserving our mid-range and towing ability.

If you have any input for Ron to help in designing this beast, give him a call at the number listed above or e-mail to ron@suncoastconverters.com .

Stay tuned, Christmas may be coming a little early this year.

tulsa · **Posted:** Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:06 pm

I talked to a local transmission guru today and he allowed that 1200rpm would probably be a good stall speed. He also said that some of the 545 transmissions coupled with hemi's were thought to have higher failure due to hot rodding, and was suprised that problems were being generated by the CRD.
He also noted that some of the Dodge transmissions had 2 layers of clutch material in the TC to help with the torque such as I think he said the 618 and another.
Lewis

CATCRD · **Posted:** Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:01 pm

I did the brake stall technique and got about 1800 rpm. I didn't floor it, but I gave it enough throttle that I felt uncomfortable holding it back with the brake. This is on a 2005 without F37.

I had a CRD dyno chart that was on Jeep's website that shows the power/torque curves of the engine all the way down to 1200rpm. Anyone still have it?

Got Diesel · **Joined:** Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:13 am **Posts:** 108

My CRD has a blown rear main seal!! going to be down for 1 week. thats it the jeep is going bye bye asap!

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:54 pm

CATCRD wrote:

I did the brake stall technique and got about 1800 rpm. I didn't floor it, but I gave it enough throttle that I felt uncomfortable holding it back with the brake. This is on a 2005 without F37.

I had a CRD dyno chart that was on Jeep's website that shows the power/torque curves of the engine all the way down to 1200rpm. Anyone still have it?

1600-1700 seems about right for the pre F37 TC and 2200-2400 is what the post F37 TC is hitting

I also remember seeing a chart like that...someone "could" send an email to Diesel Power and ask them for the results of the dyno runs for the article in the September 2006 issue...Waking up the Liberty. They did the work at www.454dyno.com in Metairie, Louisanna...AJ Berkley is the owner of that shop. They should have the stock w/dynomax exhaust runs and the two module runs...

crdmike · **Joined:** Tue May 16, 2006 7:25 pm **Posts:** 138

Got Diesel wrote:

My CRD has a blown rear main seal!! going to be down for 1 week. thats it the jeep is going bye bye asap!

Sorry to hear about your troubles Manny, Keep in touch.

Got Diesel · **Joined:** Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:13 am **Posts:** 108

Guys really wait to the end of the year and other Diesels will be here and not be so darn touchy!! Diesels are not supposed to give this much issues!!!

CATCRD · **Posted:** Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:53 pm

Here's the one I was looking for.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:02 pm

Well, here's a curve ball for you -

My CRD is a May '05 build. Tranny has never been touched except by my indy shop to have the filters replaced.

When I did the brake stall test today, it looks as though I have a 2400 rpm stall converter! :shock:

I did the test after coming back from running some errands, and stopped on the pavement just short of our gravel drive. Engine and tranny were nice and warm.

First try, I stood on the brakes and gave the throttle a good stab. RPM went sailing up, and as it got to around 2500 at least one of the rear tires broke loose and squalled it's heart out.

Second try, I tried gradually easing down on the throttle. You could feel it starting to load around 1800, but I was able to keep increasing rpm until it was up to 2100, then had to discontinue the test because one of our neighbors was coming down the road and wanted to get into his driveway.

I'm going to give this another try in the morning.

hatchetman · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:12 pm

Mine is a May 05 build also. darn, wonder if I have the 2400 RPM torque converter. I haven't had any tranny problems yet except I must let it idle in park about 45-60 seconds when cold and sitting over night or the vehicle will not move. Fluid level is fine also. Have about 19,000 miles on mine. :evil:

europachris · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:30 pm

hatchetman wrote:

Mine is a May 05 build also. darn, wonder if I have the 2400 RPM torque converter. I haven't had any tranny problems yet except I must let it idle in park about 45-60 seconds when cold and sitting over night or the vehicle will not move. Fluid level is fine also. Have about 19,000 miles on mine. :evil:

That symptom is a sign of needing the transmission filter TSB that was released quite some time ago. A rash of defective filters got installed into transmissions that cause this exact problem. Left untreated, it will eventually damage the transmission.

You can search this site for the TSB and it will give the transmission build code date ranges affected.

Chris

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:35 pm

europachris wrote:

hatchetman wrote:

Mine is a May 05 build also. darn, wonder if I have the 2400 RPM torque converter. I haven't had any tranny problems yet except I must let it idle in park about 45-60 seconds when cold and sitting over night or the vehicle will not move. Fluid level is fine also. Have about 19,000 miles on mine. :evil:

That symptom is a sign of needing the transmission filter TSB that was released quite some time ago. A rash of defective filters got installed into transmissions that cause this exact problem. Left untreated, it will eventually damage the transmission.

You can search this site for the TSB and it will give the transmission build code date ranges affected.

Chris

That is TSB 21-007-06 which is also one of the line items included in the F37

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:09 am

Reperformed the brake stall test tonight, after making a late night burger run.

Performed it 3 times, on the same stretch of pavement I used previously.

All 3 times, the passenger side rear tire broke loose at 2200 rpm.

This was after driving for 10 miles, everything up to full temp, stock Goodyear tires, 18K total miles on odometer.

Got Diesel · **Joined:** Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:13 am **Posts:** 108

Got the Jeep back yesterday and the rear seal was the cause because of the tranny being taken in and out SOOOOOOOOOOOOO many times and they left the interior very DIRTY!!! AGGGGGG

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:24 pm

Question
If we get a good TC with a reasonable stall speed and a pump that works with it - how will that interact with the transmission programming?
I'm assuming the TC will actually be - semi-locked from the stall speed before the computer sends the signal to do a clutch lockup. It won't change the shift points.
I'm also assuming that overall it will last longer but I'm wondering if the programming will cause problems if the transmission isn't what it was setup for.
Ideas?

Got Diesel · **Joined:** Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:13 am **Posts:** 108

Simple answer, The CRD will work right and the tranny will hold up just fine unless you chip it like over 400 fptq.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:55 pm

Just sent a couple e-mails to Ron at Suncoast Converters. One had the pics off another thread showing the differences between the new and old pump and cover. In the other, I gave him the current specs on my vehicle and the results of the brake stall test over the weekend, the differences in the new pump cover and seals as noted on F37 itself, and the observations DZL LOU noted on another thread when he watched them disassemble his old pump and compared it to the new one.

From my experience doing the stall test, I believe the "lurch" we're feeling at 1800 rpm doesn't have anything to do with stall speed - it's just the suspension and drivetrain loading up due to engine torque. Mine did the same thing, but I was able to keep increasing engine rpm up to 2200 before the tires broke loose. Mine did the "lurch" the first time around, but nothing on the 2nd and 3rd attempts - I didn't release the brakes between attempts.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:31 pm

retmil46 wrote:

Just sent a couple e-mails to Ron at Suncoast Converters. One had the pics off another thread showing the differences between the new and old pump and cover. In the other, I gave him the current specs on my vehicle and the results of the brake stall test over the weekend, the differences in the new pump cover and seals as noted on F37 itself, and the observations DZL LOU noted on another thread when he watched them disassemble his old pump and compared it to the new one.
.

You mean like this picture of the old pump and new pump?

[img=http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/1632/img0005se4.th.jpg]

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:31 am

DZL_LOU wrote:

retmil46 wrote:

Just sent a couple e-mails to Ron at Suncoast Converters. One had the pics off another thread showing the differences between the new and old pump and cover. In the other, I gave him the current specs on my vehicle and the results of the brake stall test over the weekend, the differences in the new pump cover and seals as noted on F37 itself, and the observations DZL LOU noted on another thread when he watched them disassemble his old pump and compared it to the new one.
.

You mean like this picture of the old pump and new pump?

[img=http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/1632/img0005se4.th.jpg]

Yep, that one. When I talked to him last week, Ron wasn't aware that they had redesigned the pump, cover, and seals.

Aftermarket CRD TC/Tranny/TCM Info

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