Aftermarket CRD TC/Tranny/TCM Info

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:46 am

Guys, check out this link -

www.suncoastconverters.com/Jeep/jeep_products.html

Suncoast has added a Jeep Diesel Products page to their website.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:23 am

The pic of the CRD is a Euro model...I wonder if they have been supplying overseas? I just want to be sure that they are not just trying to fill a "niche" with a generic fix. Of course, almost anything is better than the jigsaw puzzle piece we are using now. At least we are listed

Jeger · **Posted:** Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:26 am

retmil46 wrote:

Guys, check out this link -

www.suncoastconverters.com/Jeep/jeep_products.html

Suncoast has added a Jeep Diesel Products page to their website.

Awesome! I am curious will the $450 version work or is there a case to be made for the $695 version. And who is gonna be the guinea pig?

crdmike · **Joined:** Tue May 16, 2006 7:25 pm **Posts:** 138

There will be a fix to this junk DC sold us once Ron and their engineers work out the bugs with that TC testing next month; they are just showing us that they're working on it.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:53 am

The $450 version is basically the stock converter (plastic innards, same stall speed) with some heavy duty refinements added (billet steel cover, heavy duty clutch), to make it hold up. At least that's the way I read the info.

The $700 version (may as well call it that at $695) is a custom built performance converter built to specs - different stall speed, all metal/furnace brazed insides, etc.

Compare with their Hemi products page. Basically the same thing. Ron told me last week that the converters they had already designed for the 545/Hemi combination should be more than adequate behind our diesel, but wanted to do testing on an actual vehicle to nail down the proper stall speed and disassemble a stock CRD converter to see what other refinements/fixes might be necessary.

When he gets his test vehicle in a couple weeks, and disassembles the stock converter, he'll be able to tell us definitively whether or not DC took the cheap route and simply stuck a gasser V6 TC in this beast.

I'd say they have the Jeep page up now to gauge interest, to see if it would be worth their while developing several custom-built TC's with different stall speeds, as on their Hemi page, or stick to doing one-off builds because of a small customer base.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:11 pm

Honestly, until the TC/PUMP/TRANNY issue is resolved...all other mods are on hold.

GilaMonster · **Posted:** Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:05 pm

This is very positive news that Suncoast is working on the TC problem. Now if they solve that and the other tranny issues such as the pump and such, will the next hurdle be the transmission controller that talks to the ECU? Will this also need to be fixed/replaced in order to take advantage of the properly working tranny?

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:03 pm

We hope not...the F37 might cause a problem but if you didn't get it done yet you should have better than stock performance, maybe a bit better mileage and piece of mind.

Endurance · **Posted:** Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:05 pm

But isnt the pump causing the TC to fail? Wouldnt a performance TC just increase life span instead of fixing the problem?

GregScuba · **Posted:** Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:55 pm

GilaMonster wrote:

This is very positive news that Suncoast is working on the TC problem. Now if they solve that and the other tranny issues such as the pump and such, will the next hurdle be the transmission controller that talks to the ECU? Will this also need to be fixed/replaced in order to take advantage of the properly working tranny?

I wonder if you could get InMotion Tuning to do a transmission controler flash for us?

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:11 pm

GregScuba wrote:

GilaMonster wrote:

This is very positive news that Suncoast is working on the TC problem. Now if they solve that and the other tranny issues such as the pump and such, will the next hurdle be the transmission controller that talks to the ECU? Will this also need to be fixed/replaced in order to take advantage of the properly working tranny?

I wonder if you could get InMotion Tuning to do a transmission controler flash for us?

That question was asked on their message board. The answer was a resounding no. They did however indicate that they could modify how the engine computer responded to the TCM's request to reduce output. That won't fix shiftpoints, but it is something anyway.

Kniggit · **Posted:** Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:57 pm

What about those of us that have Lat 06's that came off the line with the F-37?

K

AZScout · **Posted:** Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:52 pm

Then this might be the only option...Or one from a wreck.

"I ran across another aftermarket TCM. If this one has been mentioned before, I missed it."

http://www.fuelairspark.com/Catalogs/Cu ... pdf/21.pdf

retmil46 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:15 am

Endurance wrote:

But isnt the pump causing the TC to fail? Wouldnt a performance TC just increase life span instead of fixing the problem?

That's another one of the questions Ron is going to try and answer. He hadn't known about the redesigned pump and (apparently) redesigned cooler when I mentioned it.

Ron stated that he was going to contact a local DC dealer to try and procure the new pump and cooler setup, so he could compare it to what was presently installed, and (assumption on my part) determine if this would be a worthwhile and/or necessary upgrade along with the TC to completely cure this beast.

The pump would be of more than passing interest to them. This same tranny is also used in Ram pickups and other vehicles with Hemi engines - if the pump is a worthwhile upgrade for this tranny, then they would have a significant customer base that would be interested in it, and would affect a good portion of their product line.

The more I dig and read about this particular tranny, I'm beginning to think that we're overlooking the cooling aspect as well. My feeling is that any solution we come up with should include the new cooler (if it is higher cooling capacity, and not just being swapped out due to potential clogging concerns), or an auxiliary cooler in series with what's already installed. Ranger1's description of the difference it made on his '02 V6 with the same basic tranny when he added an auxiliary cooler and significantly lowered fluid temps leads me to believe this ought to be on our parts list.

I'm beginning to believe that a good basic debug of this beast for stock power levels is going to include a new torque converter, the redesigned pump, Transgo shift kit, and increased cooling capacity, assuming that everything else in the tranny is still in good working order.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:05 am

Where would you put it? No room anywhere for another cooler and I wouldn't stack another cooler in front. There is already too much up there as it is. Maybe an in-line cooler, but those are not really efficient.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

I used a slim (3/4" thick) stacked plate cooler, rated at 9800 BTU on my 02. It dimensions are 5 3/4" X 11" and it fit perfectly with plenty of room to spare on the 02 installed at dead center. On the CRD, it will require locating it to the driver side of the grill, as well as a custom bracket. I will be adding one to my CRD regardless of whether the larger cooler is installed with the pump or not. I'd rather deal with the added heat load on the system - the electric fan will run a little longer - than leave the extra heat in the tranny once I invest significant money to make the transmission right.

Another aspect I found on the 02 with the added cooling is noticeably better tranny performance - it seems the 545RFE tranny has at least 5 software temperature maps in the TCM, and it reduces tranny performance and shifting when the fluid gets hot in order to save the transmission- shifts were smoother and crisper on my 02 with the auxillary cooler.

I used a B&M stacked plate cooler as it is supposedly 30% more efficient than the conventional style and it also has a built-in viscosity valve, which prevents over cooling in winter temperatures. Its been 6 years now on my 02 and its running perfectly.

http://www.bmracing.com/index.php?id=pr ... t=&pid=382

retmil46 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:25 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

I used a slim (3/4" thick) stacked plate cooler, rated at 9800 BTU on my 02. It dimensions are 5 3/4" X 11" and it fit perfectly with plenty of room to spare on the 02 installed at dead center. On the CRD, it will require locating it to the driver side of the grill, as well as a custom bracket. I will be adding one to my CRD regardless of whether the larger cooler is installed with the pump or not. I'd rather deal with the added heat load on the system - the electric fan will run a little longer - than leave the extra heat in the tranny once I invest significant money to make the transmission right.

Another aspect I found on the 02 with the added cooling is noticeably better tranny performance - it seems the 545RFE tranny has at least 5 software temperature maps in the TCM, and it reduces tranny performance and shifting when the fluid gets hot in order to save the transmission- shifts were smoother and crisper on my 02 with the auxillary cooler.

I used a B&M stacked plate cooler as it is supposedly 30% more efficient than the conventional style and it also has a built-in viscosity valve, which prevents over cooling in winter temperatures. Its been 6 years now on my 02 and its running perfectly.

http://www.bmracing.com/index.php?id=pr ... t=&pid=382

Did you plumb it in series (goes thru one cooler, then the other, then back to tranny) or in parallel (flow divided between the coolers)?

Ooops, just checked e-mail, and saw where you plumbed it in series. Never mind. :oops:

greiswig · **Posted:** Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:35 pm

I would think it would be better to plumb a second cooler in parallel with the stock one. In theory, there shouldn't be a lot of restriction, but in practice and given the viscosity valve on the aux cooler, I would rather have it running in parallel.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

The viscosity valve is actually a temperature dependent bypass valve. It allows colder fluid to bypass the cooler plates and return directly to the tranny for denser very cold fluid. Since the 545RFE has an internal built-in bypass valve on the tranny cooler path, to keep fluid flowing internally if the cooler is ever blocked, I used it primarily for the temperature benefit.

Not knowing the internal flow rates of both coolers, I wanted to avoid the possibility of one cooler being bypassed, even partially, due to lower flow resistance on the other.

PS - The FSM had a flow test spec (iirc it was a quart in less than 30 seconds at idle for minimum flow rate). As luck would have it, the day I installed the aux cooler, outside temperature went to 104F and 85% humidity, so I flow tested it at summertime temps, since dropping the pan and filter changes only emptied 7 quarts. I let it run at idle with the output line of the aux cooler drain into a graduated bucket until I had flushed another 6 quarts through the system.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:28 pm

Went out and looked at mine this morning. At 3/4" thick and 5 3/4" wide, it looks as though you might be able to mount it in front of the center vertical brace, immediately behind the grille.

Also, on the passenger side, if you've done the V6 air filter mod, you could do away with that POS air baffle and mount on that side as well.

Looking at the hard line connections to the bottom of the factory cooler, I don't immediately recognize what type/size of connectors those are. Anyone have any idea?

Couple of problems you'd have to watch on the drivers side - the hood latch cable (probably no biggie to move it out of the way), and the ambient air temp sensor mounted behind the grille.

Aftermarket CRD TC/Tranny/TCM Info

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