noob Sould I pull the trigger or not.

Drewd · **Joined:** Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm **Posts:** 902

I'm partial to my trouble free 06 CRD. I never recommend a used 05 to anyone. Its the old saying about never buying a first year model...

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:15 pm

BVCRD,
You sure make a lot of comments sound like factual information on your posts.
Can you substantiate with documented proof these two statements that you made below? If you could post the some mechanical information from DCX to back these claims that would help me understand these statements. Because, right now I'm not sure I agree with these two statements.

The first is with regard to the transmissions, the second is with regard to EGR's

BVCRD wrote:

Yea, I failed to mention the 10/05 cut off date. All after that have the 2006 TC ond not the '05.

BVCRD wrote:

Should be OK. They are self cleaning if you do away with the LSD. Boy, you sure can tell who owns a 2005 model on here.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:10 pm

DZL_LOU wrote:

BVCRD,
You sure make a lot of comments sound like factual information on your posts.
Can you substantiate with documented proof these two statements that you made below? If you could post the some mechanical information from DCX to back these claims that would help me understand these statements. Because, right now I'm not sure I agree with these two statements.

The first is with regard to the transmissions, the second is with regard to EGR's

BVCRD wrote:

Yea, I failed to mention the 10/05 cut off date. All after that have the 2006 TC ond not the '05.

BVCRD wrote:

Should be OK. They are self cleaning if you do away with the LSD. Boy, you sure can tell who owns a 2005 model on here.

Naw, I don't have any concrete evidence to back it up. As you know, nobody does. It just goes under common sense thinking and doing the math if from no other source than on here. I have never heard of a 2006 model built after 10/05 having TC troubles. It isn't because of low mileage, because the TC troubles soon showed up in 2005's with as little as 3,000 miles on them. Same with the egr. My tech did say that ULSD would quickly take care of the EGR/flow control issues. That make sence because it is cleaner. I'm not a rocket scientist, but I do look at the facts and they point towards backing up my claims. My 12/05 built 2006 has 23,000 on it now with not even a hint of a hick-up. I know of others on here as well as on the other forum that have had the same good luck. Actually, not good luck. Just re-engineered parts and fuel.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:32 pm

The first is with regard to the transmissions, the second is with regard to EGR's

Yea, I failed to mention the 10/05 cut off date. All after that have the 2006 TC ond not the '05.[

Should be OK. They are self cleaning if you do away with the LSD. Boy, you sure can tell who owns a 2005 model on here.

Naw, I don't have any concrete evidence to back it up. As you know, nobody does. It just goes under common sense thinking and doing the math if from no other source than on here. I have never heard of a 2006 model built after 10/05 having TC troubles. It isn't because of low mileage, because the TC troubles soon showed up in 2005's with as little as 3,000 miles on them. Same with the egr. My tech did say that ULSD would quickly take care of the EGR/flow control issues. That make sence because it is cleaner. I'm not a rocket scientist, but I do look at the facts and they point towards backing up my claims. My 12/05 built 2006 has 23,000 on it now with not even a hint of a hick-up. I know of others on here as well as on the other forum that have had the same good luck. Actually, not good luck. Just re-engineered parts and fuel.[/quote]

Ours came detuned from the factory :roll:

I would really like this engine to preform to it's full potential :twisted:

But then I would need a better torque converter before the 36k warranty runs out :shock:

Rob92xj says they're different and was going to take pictures but I've not seen any other person in the know verifing this :?:

The 05's only get detuned when they get F37 recall done. I also have read the 06 models have a improved flow control valve with metal or at least better plastic gears.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:12 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

The first is with regard to the transmissions, the second is with regard to EGR's

Yea, I failed to mention the 10/05 cut off date. All after that have the 2006 TC ond not the '05.[

Should be OK. They are self cleaning if you do away with the LSD. Boy, you sure can tell who owns a 2005 model on here.

Naw, I don't have any concrete evidence to back it up. As you know, nobody does. It just goes under common sense thinking and doing the math if from no other source than on here. I have never heard of a 2006 model built after 10/05 having TC troubles. It isn't because of low mileage, because the TC troubles soon showed up in 2005's with as little as 3,000 miles on them. Same with the egr. My tech did say that ULSD would quickly take care of the EGR/flow control issues. That make sence because it is cleaner. I'm not a rocket scientist, but I do look at the facts and they point towards backing up my claims. My 12/05 built 2006 has 23,000 on it now with not even a hint of a hick-up. I know of others on here as well as on the other forum that have had the same good luck. Actually, not good luck. Just re-engineered parts and fuel.

Ours came detuned from the factory :roll:

I would really like this engine to preform to it's full potential :twisted:

But then I would need a better torque converter before the 36k warranty runs out :shock:

Rob92xj says they're different and was going to take pictures but I've not seen any other person in the know verifing this :?:

The 05's only get detuned when they get F37 recall done. I also have read the 06 models have a improved flow control valve with metal or at least better plastic gears.[/quote]

rob would know. He is the man. Well, at least one of them. A real straight shooter.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:50 pm

My 05 has never had a hint of transmission trouble at 19,500 miles. It was in the date range for the defective return line filter and I basically performed the TSB myself. This anecdotal evidence does not support the theory that all 05's have bad TCs.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:56 pm

Goglio704 wrote:

My 05 has never had a hint of transmission trouble at 19,500 miles. It was in the date range for the defective return line filter and I basically performed the TSB myself. This anecdotal evidence does not support the theory that all 05's have bad TCs.

True. You only here from the sqeeky wheels. I do think they are prone to failure however, thus the cust satif. recall. It could be due to driver habits as well. Do you drive it hard? Do you kick it into neutral at stop lights? That sort of thing.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:05 pm

No, I don't kick it into neutral at lights, and from time to time I have driven it hard. I really think a poll might be in order to help sort this out. I really don't think it is a simple as 05 = bad, 06 = good.

I had doubts about buying an 05, but three things changed my mind.

1. It is not truly a first model year because of the export models.
2. The longer warranty was more valuable to me since the only obvious difference in the 06 was ESP.
3. I got a real good deal on a leftover 05.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:52 pm

Goglio704 wrote:

No, I don't kick it into neutral at lights, and from time to time I have driven it hard. I really think a poll might be in order to help sort this out. I really don't think it is a simple as 05 = bad, 06 = good.

I had doubts about buying an 05, but three things changed my mind.

1. It is not truly a first model year because of the export models.
2. The longer warranty was more valuable to me since the only obvious difference in the 06 was ESP.
3. I got a real good deal on a leftover 05.

Hey, I'm not saying every 2005 is FUBAR'D. They are more likely to be though. It's just that those are the target vehicles being recalled. I know of lots of 2005's on the other forum that haven't had anything happen. There must be some explaination as to why some are screwed from the get go, and others are OK. Just like there are few and far between late model 2006's with any issues. Can't just be that they were made on a friday or a monday. A poll would seem to be in order. Don't know what it would prove. The threads speak for themselves.

Kniggit · **Posted:** Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:36 am

About the car seat thing, the night we took delivery I took mine to a family dinner and gave test drives and rides, my brother took all three of his kids, in car seats for a ride, He appreciated the fact that it has the attachment hooks and they went in like a snap. It was easier then putting them into his station wagon. and they actually fit three wide.

K

NHCRD · **Joined:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:46 pm **Posts:** 4

Dill, You can get a dealer to install the factory trailer hitch and seven pin wiring harness for $450.00+-.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

I know of lots of 2005's on the other forum that haven't had anything happen.

How many is that in integer numbers exactly? Lots? 3, 10, 8,416? When you say you "know", does that mean you know as in you personally verified each and every Internet forum post report of a 2005 CRD that "haven't had anything happen?" Or you are posting what you believe as an assumed fact?

I suspect that its your very loose interpretation of the english language to suit your particular point of view that raises credibility issues.

I think this post of yours, on Jeepforum, dated February 9, 2007, in response to a newbie question about possible issues with the CRD causing the low resale value of the CRD they were looking at buying, illustrates what I'm saying:

"Nothing wrong with my 2006. There have been a few 2005's with some tranny issues. Jeep is taking care of it though." So again, I ask the question, how many exactly is a few? Unless you have real data, why are you posting your assumptions as fact?

Now I know you've read some of the issues noted here after the F37 recall, yet you lead this newbie poster on that forum to believe that "Jeep is taking care of the "few tranny issues."

Why would you post that, in view of DC's handling of the issues over the last 2 years, and not knowing the outcome of the F37 CSN yet? Do you know something about the F37 CSN that those of us with tranny failures don't know yet? Especially when you admit you have not had trouble with your CRD? Without having your CRD worked on yet for tranny issues, how do you determine that Jeep is taking care of it? Help me understand this logic.

Your answer clearly leaves the impression that only a few 2005 have tranny issues, that Jeep is handling the situation, facts that you have no possible way of verfiying. Unless you work for DC, directly or indirectly, with exact data on the number of tranny issues, repeat repairs and what the specifications are on the replacement torque converter, the power reduction in absolute terms, then you are making assumptions about "Jeep taking care of it," and the number of CRD's with tranny issues.

You could stop cluttering the forum with your assumptions by not posting opinions as fact, or at least validating or identifying your assumptions. If you do that, you would likely not have to defend the credibility of your posts.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:35 am

Ranger1 wrote:

Quote:

I know of lots of 2005's on the other forum that haven't had anything happen.

How many is that in integer numbers exactly? Lots? 3, 10, 8,416? When you say you "know", does that mean you know as in you personally verified each and every Internet forum post report of a 2005 CRD that "haven't had anything happen?" Or you are posting what you believe as an assumed fact?

I suspect that its your very loose interpretation of the english language to suit your particular point of view that raises credibility issues.

I think this post of yours, on Jeepforum, dated February 9, 2007, in response to a newbie question about possible issues with the CRD causing the low resale value of the CRD they were looking at buying, illustrates what I'm saying:

"Nothing wrong with my 2006. There have been a few 2005's with some tranny issues. Jeep is taking care of it though." So again, I ask the question, how many exactly is a few? Unless you have real data, why are you posting your assumptions as fact?

Now I know you've read some of the issues noted here after the F37 recall, yet you lead this newbie poster on that forum to believe that "Jeep is taking care of the "few tranny issues."

Why would you post that, in view of DC's handling of the issues over the last 2 years, and not knowing the outcome of the F37 CSN yet? Do you know something about the F37 CSN that those of us with tranny failures don't know yet? Especially when you admit you have not had trouble with your CRD? Without having your CRD worked on yet for tranny issues, how do you determine that Jeep is taking care of it? Help me understand this logic.

Your answer clearly leaves the impression that only a few 2005 have tranny issues, that Jeep is handling the situation and there are only a few 2005 with tranny issues, facts that you have no possible way of verfiying. Unless you work for DC, directly or indirectly, with exact data on the number of tranny issues, repeat repairs and what the specifications are on the replacement torque converter, the power reduction in absolute terms, then you are making assumptions about "Jeep taking care of it," and the number of CRD's with tranny issues.

You could stop cluttering the forum with your assumptions by not posting opinions as fact, or at least validating or identifying your assumptions. If you do that, you would likely not have to defend the credibility of your posts.

Read the posts. There are some with issues, and some that have had no problems. The only numbers I can quote are the folks who come on here and Jeep that make such claims. I believe them. I don't think they would lie to me or anyone else. I take them at their word. Like you should. When I say Jeep is taking care of them, I meant they are doing the responsible thing and recalling them. They aren't just fixing the ones that had issues, they are fixing them all. How would you describe it. Sounds like taking care to me. The "facts" if you want to call them that are the numerous Techs that I have spoken to and written to on boards. While I may not be in the "loop", i can only take their words at face value, which I readily do. Make up your own mind. It is yours to do or not to do. You seem to doubt my interpretation of "a few." You must have an idea that differs from mine. What do you use for your understandings? It is factual to say that late model 2006 CRD KJ's have not had the issues that some 2005's have had. That is a fact, and until it is proven not to be, it shall remain.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:30 pm

Some things we can generalize about concerning the CRDs...

+Lower Ball Joints are still and will continue to be an issue...not even sure if MOOGs Ball Joints fix the engineering problem...probably better to replace Ball Joints with MOOGS for the zerk fitting and replace them every 40-50K like a maintenance item

+Earlier Problems with EGRs seemed to be on the decline with the introduction of ULSD...also running it hard once in a while on the highway to "blow out" some of the "crud" seems to help along with cleaning the Boost Sensor/Temp Sensor with some brake clean

+A few CRDs have had problems with oil soaked CAC hoses that seems to coincide with oil passing the turbo seals...supposedly the replacement CAC Hose is built a little different...also keeping the Air Filter cleans seems to help

+Fuel Leaks at the Fuel Filter/Heater have caused some problems and left CRDs in "Limp Mode"...can check for leak by priming the fuel system (4-5 pumps) and see if any bubbles emit from the electrical sensor

+++Torque Converter/Transmission Pump issues have cropped up...I don't think DC has a handle on this yet...might take an aftermarket fix to solve this problem correctly...I do not think that any 2005s or 2006s are more prone than others to failure...just the luck of the draw

Lets not get into semantics or trying to put others on the spot. We are all in the same boat...we purchased a "one of a kind" vehicle in the US and "hope" that we can get everything working correctly because there is still not another vehicle like the Jeep Liberty CRD available in the US.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:51 pm

DarbyWalters wrote:

Some things we can generalize about concerning the CRDs...

+Lower Ball Joints are still and will continue to be an issue...not even sure if MOOGs Ball Joints fix the engineering problem...probably better to replace Ball Joints with MOOGS for the zerk fitting and replace them every 40-50K like a maintenance item

+Earlier Problems with EGRs seemed to be on the decline with the introduction of ULSD...also running it hard once in a while on the highway to "blow out" some of the "crud" seems to help along with cleaning the Boost Sensor/Temp Sensor with some brake clean

+A few CRDs have had problems with oil soaked CAC hoses that seems to coincide with oil passing the turbo seals...supposedly the replacement CAC Hose is built a little different...also keeping the Air Filter cleans seems to help

+Fuel Leaks at the Fuel Filter/Heater have caused some problems and left CRDs in "Limp Mode"...can check for leak by priming the fuel system (4-5 pumps) and see if any bubbles emit from the electrical sensor

+++Torque Converter/Transmission Pump issues have cropped up...I don't think DC has a handle on this yet...might take an aftermarket fix to solve this problem correctly...I do not think that any 2005s or 2006s are more prone than others to failure...just the luck of the draw

Lets not get into semantics or trying to put others on the spot. We are all in the same boat...we purchased a "one of a kind" vehicle in the US and "hope" that we can get everything working correctly because there is still not another vehicle like the Jeep Liberty CRD available in the US.

One other item, that has come up many ( I don't know HOW many) times before, is the rear brake howl. Mine did it upon leaving the dealership at purchase. It was evident when cold and/or wet. They ( the dealeship tech) replace the rotors and pads on the rear and it soon came back. This was 8 months ago, and I haven't noticed it in over 3 months of winter driving. It seems to have corrected itself.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:28 pm

Dill,

I am not a Jeep or Jeep Liberty fanatic. My diesel experience is with John Deere, cat and New Holland. Still I love my Liberty CRD. 24K trouble free miles. If I did not have it to drive anymore I simply can't imagine what I would drive in its place.

Had I spent too much time here before buying it I might not have bought it and missed out on a wonderful driving experience.

namvet · **Posted:** Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:30 pm

I've had heated seats. Never liked them. Made me feel like I had peed my pants. :lol:

Anyway, my 2006 CRD went into limp mode once early on during a panic stop at highway speeds. I pulled off at the next exit. Went into a 7/11 and it cleared up.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:33 pm

namvet wrote:

I've had heated seats. Never liked them. Made me feel like I had peed my pants. :lol:

Anyway, my 2006 CRD went into limp mode once early on during a panic stop at highway speeds. I pulled off at the next exit. Went into a 7/11 and it cleared up.

I have heard that this happens some time when both the fuel and brake pedal are activated at the same time. Behaps this is what happened.

TDI4BY · **Joined:** Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:56 pm **Posts:** 644

Cowcatcher wrote:

Dill,

I am not a Jeep or Jeep Liberty fanatic. My diesel experience is with John Deere, cat and New Holland. Still I love my Liberty CRD. 24K trouble free miles. If I did not have it to drive anymore I simply can't imagine what I would drive in its place.

Had I spent too much time here before buying it I might not have bought it and missed out on a wonderful driving experience.

I am with Cowcatcher on this one, Tractors as a kid and my previous Cummins and TDI. I am so glad I didn't get caught up in the Forum before I got my Jeep. As in my sig. I got a good one. or I just know how to drive it :-)r

Dill · **Posted:** Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:56 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

Quote:

I know of lots of 2005's on the other forum that haven't had

I think this post of yours, on Jeepforum, dated February 9, 2007, in response to a newbie question about possible issues with the CRD causing the low resale value of the CRD they were looking at buying, illustrates what I'm saying:

Thats me on Jeep Forum also to clear up confusion.
Usually I use Dill on internet forums, but couldn't get it when I registered.

Well one dealer just called me to double the offer on my trade
a 2000 2x4 stripped dakota with 100k miles to 5k.
Which makes the KJ an out the door of 13,500, with the 70000 mile warranty.
The wife still hasn't driven one or even gone with me to look at them.
That dealer sold it new, and traded it for a compass. But they don't have a crd tech just a KJ tech. I have found a guy I know who is a crd tech, who hasn't seen many problems with them, just the egr stuff.
So its still up in the air.
I do know the 06 TDIs have had problems with USLD not being available and soot causing havoc with the smog equipment.

Most of my dealings with diesel were from growing up on a farm and fixing/running green equipment also.

noob Sould I pull the trigger or not.

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