Who Wants A Better Fuel Filter Thats Cheaper To Replace?

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:51 am

Would be nice if we could filter diesel at the "neck" directly out of the pump nozzle "before" the diesel gets to our tank. The volume at the nozzle would probably make that almost impossible tho.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:11 pm

DarbyWalters wrote:

Would be nice if we could filter diesel at the "neck" directly out of the pump nozzle "before" the diesel gets to our tank. The volume at the nozzle would probably make that almost impossible tho.

True, but you'd still need a good filter setup between the tank and the engine. Humbugs, water absorption and condensation from sitting in a vented tank, etc.

I do believe they make a strainer type funnel for the boating crowd, but I believe this is just a wire mesh arrangement to catch the big visible chunks.

What would also be nice would be a way to drain and flush the fuel tank on this beast without having to drop it out of the vehicle, to get rid of all the crud that will accumulate over time.

TDI4BY · **Joined:** Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:56 pm **Posts:** 644

DarbyWalters wrote:

Would be nice if we could filter diesel at the "neck" directly out of the pump nozzle "before" the diesel gets to our tank. The volume at the nozzle would probably make that almost impossible tho.

I fuel up at a local CFN with my card and they have a huge filter on the otlet of all their pumps

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:28 pm

TDI4BY wrote:

DarbyWalters wrote:

Would be nice if we could filter diesel at the "neck" directly out of the pump nozzle "before" the diesel gets to our tank. The volume at the nozzle would probably make that almost impossible tho.

I fuel up at a local CFN with my card and they have a huge filter on the otlet of all their pumps

Those are 30 mocron filters on most pumps, sometimes you might find a 20 micron on a pump but that is rare. Most of those filters will not stop water either.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:45 pm

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what we would need for a minimum flow rate thru the filter?

I've been searching thru the Fleetguard and Wix websites, for something that would be a decent alternative to the factory POS in front of the Permacool, until we can adapt over to the CAT filter. Been going by thread size, M16 X 1.5, and gasket size.

Most common alternative on Wix was 33358. 10 micron, flow rate 6 to 8 gpm, beta ratio of 2/20 = 3/20. If I'm reading the ratio correctly, that means it's 50% effective at 3 micron and 95% effective at 20 micron. Version with a water drain is 33472, same basic ratings except for 8 to 10 gpm.

Isn't great, but compared to the results from the OEM filter.... If the flow rate is adequate, might work well as a prefilter in front of the Permacool for the time being, and probably considerably cheaper than the OEM filter as well.

Fleetguard also had several filters that crossed over to the Wix numbers above, including a couple Stratapore versions, FS19599 and FF5442, and a version of their user friendly filter, FF42000.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:16 pm

Why not Permacool before and after the Mopar filter?

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

So, my question about this is: Is the information here just "inside baseball" type stuff, or is it really important to the average owner?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:02 pm

vtdog wrote:

So, my question about this is: Is the information here just "inside baseball" type stuff, or is it really important to the average owner?

It is VERY IMPORTANT if you want injectors and injection pump to last past warranty. At the present all it would take is to fill at a station that dumped a load of used motor oil into their underground tanks, or you to buy fuel from someone with a bad storage tank that has about rotted out. Even the 30 micron filters often seen on some diesel pumps will not save your fuel system if it is a bad load of fuel. Remember Injectors are about $350 each and a injuction pump is about $2000 and then there is labor charges.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

How many miles were on the fuel filter that Laundry tested? Is he going to test a 2nd time on a new OEM filter or the CAT filter? If this test was with 10-15K miles, it would be interesting to know if a new OEM filter is any different, to get an idea of lifespan readings.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

oldnavy wrote:

vtdog wrote:

So, my question about this is: Is the information here just "inside baseball" type stuff, or is it really important to the average owner?

It is VERY IMPORTANT if you want injectors and injection pump to last past warranty. At the present all it would take is to fill at a station that dumped a load of used motor oil into their underground tanks, or you to buy fuel from someone with a bad storage tank that has about rotted out. Even the 30 micron filters often seen on some diesel pumps will not save your fuel system if it is a bad load of fuel. Remember Injectors are about $350 each and a injuction pump is about $2000 and then there is labor charges.

What then do the big diesel users (and for that matter, dodge trucks, ford 350s, etc) do about filtration? Are the filters used on these much better than the crd oem? Are the synthetic media filters so much better? Why was this not an issue in my old rabbit diesel?

Oh, and should I add: Great-something else to worry about!!

BVCRD · **Posted:** Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:55 pm

In the world of abrasion, is the paper any more or less abrasive than other particles found in todays diesel?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:30 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

How many miles were on the fuel filter that Laundry tested? Is he going to test a 2nd time on a new OEM filter or the CAT filter? If this test was with 10-15K miles, it would be interesting to know if a new OEM filter is any different, to get an idea of lifespan readings.

The filter had about 7,000 milles on it from the same source.

There will be a fuel sample test done after the Cat install and if Greg wants me I will pull a sample before doing the change over to the Cat filter. The retesting would only show any difference might be that my water count might change up or down, that would alter the amount of filter material that would come off the OEM filter and allow for increase in other foreign material. So in reality no real need to do a retest of my OEM filter, it will only be worse.

Why would a new OEM filter make any difference, it just does not filter small enough particles or stop water. You can replace the OEM fuel filter every 5,000 miles without any difference in what is being sent through your IP & injectors in the 4 to 7 micron size then the guy changing every 20,000 miles.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

Why would a new OEM filter make any difference, it just does not filter small enough particles or stop water. You can replace the OEM fuel filter every 5,000 miles without any difference in what is being sent through your IP & injectors in the 4 to 7 micron size then the guy changing every 20,000 miles

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To see when the OEM starts adding trash to the fuel instead of filtering it. 1K, 2K, 5K 6K miles? If the element starts adding trash from day one, its a big problem at 24K psi rail pressure. My fuel filter is scheduled for a change soon - it would be worth the time to pull a sample on mine and have the fuel tested right after the filter change. 7K miles isn't worth the price Chrysler is charging for these filters, but I already have 2 spares. Until you guys come up with a replacement, I'd like to know if the OEM can be used for even 5K miles without adding trash.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:25 am

You can get your fuel tested here at AV Lubricants Inc. for $75, I'm not due for a filter change for about another 12,000 miles and besides I will be changing over to the Cat filter as soon a Greg gets a prototype made and sent to me for testing.

Drewd · **Joined:** Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm **Posts:** 902

Greg,
Please count me in on a Cat filter for my CRD. The CAT worked great in my TDI and am sure it will do just as well in my CRD if you behind it. BTW, wish you could develop a filter head replacement CAT filter for the Mk 5 TDIs.

Andy

LanduytG · **Joined:** Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:59 am **Posts:** 188

Talked with my machine shop guy and he said I would work on getting me a price for the Cat filter conversion. I'm hoping to shoot for $65-75 including filter. Will be a very easy conversion but it will not have the WIF. We have looked at a way that we can use it but I think price would scare everyone. Would be in the $150 range including filter. So we hope for a solid price Monday or Tuesday and then it will be about 3-4 weeks before we have them in our hand. Will keep you all posted.

Greg

oldnavy · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:36 pm

LanduytG wrote:

Talked with my machine shop guy and he said I would work on getting me a price for the Cat filter conversion. I'm hoping to shoot for $65-75 including filter. Will be a very easy conversion but it will not have the WIF. We have looked at a way that we can use it but I think price would scare everyone. Would be in the $150 range including filter. So we hope for a solid price Monday or Tuesday and then it will be about 3-4 weeks before we have them in our hand. Will keep you all posted.

Greg

Don't need no WIF sensor.

My fuel was high as everyone see's and believe me I have had no warning light to tell me. Even tried a new sensor today, still no warning light, so count me in for a real filter.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:40 am

Been out of town for the last week and now I'm catching up. I cut my first OEM fuel filter open a while back and the media was not paper. I'm not challenging the test results, but I don't think paper debris explains them either.

LanduytG · **Joined:** Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:59 am **Posts:** 188

Goglio704 wrote:

Been out of town for the last week and now I'm catching up. I cut my first OEM fuel filter open a while back and the media was not paper. I'm not challenging the test results, but I don't think paper debris explains them either.

I'm kind of curious what do you think it is? I will take George's many years of experience when it comes analyising (sp) filters. When he has seen this happen many times its hard to urgue the point.

Greg

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:44 pm

LanduytG wrote:

I'm kind of curious what do you think it is? I will take George's many years of experience when it comes analyising (sp) filters. When he has seen this happen many times its hard to urgue the point.

Greg

Isn't George about the #1 in the country when looking for a fuel/oil scientist?

Who Wants A Better Fuel Filter Thats Cheaper To Replace?

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