Torque converter recall

brich · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:02 pm

I was told that the Factory Recall would require a new torque converter and reprograming the computer. The reprogram would detune the engine to reduce torque output.
Is this true and should I have it done?

greiswig · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:14 pm

Either simply browse the subject lines here for F37, or use the "search" feature. You'll get plenty of information and opinion.

brich · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:17 pm

Thanks!

bbo · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:17 pm **Posts:** 382

greiswig wrote:

Either simply browse the subject lines here for F37, or use the "search" feature. You'll get plenty of information and opinion.

heh heh .. I notice you didn't use the word fact ... wouldn't it be nice if DC would just publish exactly what the recall involves?

greiswig · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:23 pm

bbo wrote:

greiswig wrote:

Either simply browse the subject lines here for F37, or use the "search" feature. You'll get plenty of information and opinion.

heh heh .. I notice you didn't use the word fact ... wouldn't it be nice if DC would just publish exactly what the recall involves?

Boy, wouldn't it?

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:04 pm

Try being the guy who has all the information but can't share it with you all...

RFCRD · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:19 pm

bbo wrote:

greiswig wrote:

Either simply browse the subject lines here for F37, or use the "search" feature. You'll get plenty of information and opinion.

heh heh .. I notice you didn't use the word fact ... wouldn't it be nice if DC would just publish exactly what the recall involves?

They actually do disclose the "torque reduction" in both the recall bulletin and on the letter to the owners, just won't tell how much of a reduction. If you want the straight details, pull the F37 recall from Alldata (38 pages of gorry details).

Wilmo · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:48 pm

MrMopar64 wrote:

Try being the guy who has all the information but can't share it with you all...

Tell us this much - is the replacement a genuine fix? Would you get it done if it was your KJ and you hadn't had any problems so far?

Is the same sort of TC problems going to occur on the new JK wrangler with the 2.8 'Panther' diesel that is slated for release in Australia in 3 months?

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:05 pm

If it was my KJ and I hadn't had any problems thus far, I'd consider myself lucky and not get the recall done. It's basically a crutch fix because the engine's torsionals are killing the converters when the output it specified too high.

The JK Wranglers are much improved over KJ. For the 07MY, the output is at 360 N-m and by keeping output low (and with the new engine design), the TC issues are about 95% resolved. However, if you wait for the 08MY, the output will be bumped to 460 N-m because of the updated/redesigned 545rfe and accompanying TC (along with more axle ratio choices). If it were me, I'd definitely wait for '08.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:38 pm

MrMopar64 wrote:

If it was my KJ and I hadn't had any problems thus far, I'd consider myself lucky and not get the recall done. It's basically a crutch fix because the engine's torsionals are killing the converters when the output it specified too high.

The JK Wranglers are much improved over KJ. For the 07MY, the output is at 360 N-m and by keeping output low (and with the new engine design), the TC issues are about 95% resolved. However, if you wait for the 08MY, the output will be bumped to 460 N-m because of the updated/redesigned 545rfe and accompanying TC (along with more axle ratio choices). If it were me, I'd definitely wait for '08.

I suppose I have read it here and just forgot it all in the jumble but will there be a MOPAR after warranty solution when the new improved 545rfe is available or is the long term solution an after market TC in the existing tranny?

I am not having issues and my really good dealer is not pressing me to do the F37 by the way.

greiswig · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:57 pm

MrMopar64 wrote:

If it was my KJ and I hadn't had any problems thus far, I'd consider myself lucky and not get the recall done. It's basically a crutch fix because the engine's torsionals are killing the converters when the output it specified too high.

The JK Wranglers are much improved over KJ. For the 07MY, the output is at 360 N-m and by keeping output low (and with the new engine design), the TC issues are about 95% resolved. However, if you wait for the 08MY, the output will be bumped to 460 N-m because of the updated/redesigned 545rfe and accompanying TC (along with more axle ratio choices). If it were me, I'd definitely wait for '08.

I guess I wonder, even for people who have had no issues SO FAR, whether this may become a real problem at the most inconvenient time. For example, when in the outback on a trail with wife and kids depending on a way to get back to syphilization? After all, isn't that why some of us buy a Jeep?

BVCRD · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:56 am

greiswig wrote:

MrMopar64 wrote:

If it was my KJ and I hadn't had any problems thus far, I'd consider myself lucky and not get the recall done. It's basically a crutch fix because the engine's torsionals are killing the converters when the output it specified too high.

The JK Wranglers are much improved over KJ. For the 07MY, the output is at 360 N-m and by keeping output low (and with the new engine design), the TC issues are about 95% resolved. However, if you wait for the 08MY, the output will be bumped to 460 N-m because of the updated/redesigned 545rfe and accompanying TC (along with more axle ratio choices). If it were me, I'd definitely wait for '08.

I guess I wonder, even for people who have had no issues SO FAR, whether this may become a real problem at the most inconvenient time. For example, when in the outback on a trail with wife and kids depending on a way to get back to syphilization? After all, isn't that why some of us buy a Jeep?

No one has a working crystal ball that I know of, but the issues have been appearing at a lower mileage, so it may be safe to assume that a rig with over 20,000 miles with no hickups, has already ran the gauntlet if it can ever be ran.

alljeep · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:58 am

MrMopar64 wrote:

If it was my KJ and I hadn't had any problems thus far, I'd consider myself lucky and not get the recall done. It's basically a crutch fix because the engine's torsionals are killing the converters when the output it specified too high.

I'm just happy to finally understand what's really going on so thanks for the tid bits of information that you drop in this website. It's too late for me not to get the F37 done.

I am curious if this crutch will help this last long term. My main concern is this:

I may be forced in the near future to reduce from two family cars down to one.

One is a 2004 Toyota Sienna LE AWD that has not had a single issue since new (it's a very, VERY late build 2004 - like the last month they made 2004s so I avoided all the first model year problems). It's an excellent and safe people hauler, but can't tow my camper or push snow or do construction inspections for work(work has a pool car I can use if I must - just not a good fit).

My other choice is this CRD which can do lots, but is smaller, hauls less people, and worries me about long term reliability.

If anyone had to make a choice, long term, that your wife and kids depend on - what would you do???

sbohner · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:30 am

Beware -- it looks like Daimler-Chrysler is pressuring the dealers to flash ECMs now. It happened to me a couple of days ago. So, when you take your CRD in for any service and have not had the F37, then you may want to give specific instructions NOT to flash or make any alterations to your vehicle without specific approval from you.

After the dealer did the ECM flash that was not authorized by me, my CRD now has reduced throttle responsiveness and lower power in key ranges (for example going up hills with significant grades). Needless to say, I'm very unhappy with this situation and have refused taking the CRD back until the ECM is returned to the previous configuration. If you are interested in this emerging saga, please see the thread I started on an Unapproved ECM Flash after CEL for more details.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:57 am

sbohner wrote:

Beware -- it looks like Daimler-Chrysler is pressuring the dealers to flash ECMs now. It happened to me a couple of days ago. So, when you take your CRD in for any service and have not had the F37, then you may want to give specific instructions NOT to flash or make any alterations to your vehicle without specific approval from you.

After the dealer did the ECM flash that was not authorized by me, my CRD now has reduced throttle responsiveness and lower power in key ranges (for example going up hills with significant grades). Needless to say, I'm very unhappy with this situation and have refused taking the CRD back until the ECM is returned to the previous configuration. If you are interested in this emerging saga, please see the thread I started on an Unapproved ECM Flash after CEL for more details.

I wouldn't like less power, but I would like even less having to pay for a TC that blew up out of warranty somewhere in the future.

KJbob · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:55 am

BVCRD wrote:

No one has a working crystal ball that I know of, but the issues have been appearing at a lower mileage, so it may be safe to assume that a rig with over 20,000 miles with no hickups, has already ran the gauntlet if it can ever be ran.

So Jeeps get better with age? :roll:

The reasons these problems have been appearing at lower mileage is due to an inherent design flaw. Liberty CRD's are still new on the market; most do not have many miles on them yet.

I have never owned a Jeep that had less problems as the miles accumulated. And they don't fix themselves.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:03 pm

KJbob wrote:

BVCRD wrote:

No one has a working crystal ball that I know of, but the issues have been appearing at a lower mileage, so it may be safe to assume that a rig with over 20,000 miles with no hickups, has already ran the gauntlet if it can ever be ran.

So Jeeps get better with age? :roll:

The reasons these problems have been appearing at lower mileage is due to an inherent design flaw. Liberty CRD's are still new on the market; most do not have many miles on them yet.

I have never owned a Jeep that had less problems as the miles accumulated. And they don't fix themselves.

I can see it now, Saatchi and Saatchi winning a new advertisement account with DCX stating someting to the effect that the JEEP CRD is like a fine Bourdeaux it gets better with age and only appreciates in value as they get more rare to find.

greiswig · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:05 pm

BVCRD wrote:

No one has a working crystal ball that I know of, but the issues have been appearing at a lower mileage, so it may be safe to assume that a rig with over 20,000 miles with no hickups, has already ran the gauntlet if it can ever be ran.

That's an interesting theory, but I'm not sure I buy it. DC is replacing a large, expensive, key component to the transmission (torque converter), and occasionally the pump, too, if you're lucky. Presumably, the new TC is of stouter design, which is why they are making this an across-the-board replacement recall. Logically, there will be a few of the weak TC's that make it long-term, because of the way the driver drives or who knows what other variables. That doesn't mean that the torque converter isn't still weak, or that it isn't on the verge of failure because of that.

Note that this *opinion* conflicts directly with MrMopar's previous suggestion that he'd leave a vehicle sans F37 if it hadn't shown tranny issues previously.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:45 pm

KJbob wrote:

BVCRD wrote:

No one has a working crystal ball that I know of, but the issues have been appearing at a lower mileage, so it may be safe to assume that a rig with over 20,000 miles with no hickups, has already ran the gauntlet if it can ever be ran.

So Jeeps get better with age? :roll:

The reasons these problems have been appearing at lower mileage is due to an inherent design flaw. Liberty CRD's are still new on the market; most do not have many miles on them yet.

I have never owned a Jeep that had less problems as the miles accumulated. And they don't fix themselves.

New maybe to the US market, but not new. I have over 24,000 on mine now. It gets run 70 miles a day at highway speeds. Had it a year now.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:48 pm

greiswig wrote:

BVCRD wrote:

No one has a working crystal ball that I know of, but the issues have been appearing at a lower mileage, so it may be safe to assume that a rig with over 20,000 miles with no hickups, has already ran the gauntlet if it can ever be ran.

That's an interesting theory, but I'm not sure I buy it. DC is replacing a large, expensive, key component to the transmission (torque converter), and occasionally the pump, too, if you're lucky. Presumably, the new TC is of stouter design, which is why they are making this an across-the-board replacement recall. Logically, there will be a few of the weak TC's that make it long-term, because of the way the driver drives or who knows what other variables. That doesn't mean that the torque converter isn't still weak, or that it isn't on the verge of failure because of that.

Note that this *opinion* conflicts directly with MrMopar's previous suggestion that he'd leave a vehicle sans F37 if it hadn't shown tranny issues previously.

Where do you get your info about the F37 being "across the board?" Nothing has been published about late model 2006's being in the recall. I'd like to suggest that the switch to the stouter TC along with the reflash was already done to late model 2006's but I have no proof. We already had the higher shift point into 5th gear. And at least on mine, no bucking or anything tranny related unlike some of the 2005 model with as little as 5000 miles on them.

Torque converter recall

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