Sweet! I just emailed ATS. Let's beat down their door.

I saw the post too, but after looking around online couldn't find anything.

_________________
Feb/2006 Silver Sport 4x4 CRD

If I remember correctly, I saw her original post when she put in the ATS some time ago. She then mentioned an issue with a strange drive-line vibration or noise, that I don't recall anything ever being posted about as an explanation, but it was her later comments that it took them (not sure who them was) about 8 months to work out the kinks in the TC, that led me to believe that she may have had that TC in and out of the vehicle more than once. My impression based on those posts was that her TC replacement was not a simple drop-in replacement style fix. I suspect it took her/ATS some experimentation to find the correct stall speed.

_________________
2005 LTD CRD RB1 NAV/Htd Leather seats/Amsoil EA filters
SunCoast Mega Trans & Billet TC/PML pan/Aux cooler
Fuel cooler/Lift Pump/10um Pri/Racor R490 2um Sec Fuel Filters
IronMan Lift/Shocks/Provent/Moog ball joints/ V6 Airbox/Fan/Hayden
Cobalt Boost/EGT/Oil/Trans/Volt gauges/Aeroturbine 2525
Yeti Hot Tune/Odessey 65/Samco's/Michelin Defenders

Agreed, I logged onto that forum and asked her some questions about her TC, specifically if they did any other mods - shift kit, pump, etc. She mentioned that they had done some work with the valve body, but nothing specific.

She also stated that the TC was so tight now that it would almost stall the engine at a stop sign in the morning with the fluid still cold. I think that's just a little TOO tight for daily driving.

She's also using one of their Five Star Viskus converters with 5 clutches - we're talking major bucks, $1300 to $1500. IMO, just a little bit of overkill if all you want is a reliable daily driver, both in the price and the number of clutches/torque capacity. In her case, she's planning on modding it for max HP and went big.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

Agreed on the TC being a little too tight for my personal comfort level. $1500 is more than I was thinking for a TC as well. After reading her last post, I think she is definitely modding for max power and intelligently building up the drivetrain. She appears to have access to information on some CRD owners who have already modded their injectors for more power/torque and found the TC to slip under that added power.

Would be great if ATS would share that info on the valve body mods, but it is their information and they can't just give it away if they want to sell CRD specific product. I've wondered if the stock valve body shift points would be optimal on a better TC or could be firmed up with a Transgo. I've contacted Ron at Suncoast with those very questions. I'm very happy to hear from your reports that they are testing it with a loaner CRD first. I'm thinking of having mine rebuilt with the heavy duty clutch kit as well as replacing the TC and adding Transgo or whatever else SunCoast may determine needs modification.

Appreciate the effort you've put into this Mitch. It looks very promising.

_________________
2005 LTD CRD RB1 NAV/Htd Leather seats/Amsoil EA filters
SunCoast Mega Trans & Billet TC/PML pan/Aux cooler
Fuel cooler/Lift Pump/10um Pri/Racor R490 2um Sec Fuel Filters
IronMan Lift/Shocks/Provent/Moog ball joints/ V6 Airbox/Fan/Hayden
Cobalt Boost/EGT/Oil/Trans/Volt gauges/Aeroturbine 2525
Yeti Hot Tune/Odessey 65/Samco's/Michelin Defenders

I was wondering if anyone could comment on the ATS system and how it works. From their web site it indicates that it does not work like a conventional torque converter but uses a patented 5 clutch system to transfer most of the power and uses the fluid transfer only a little bit. This leaves me totally confused on what transfers power when and how.

If the ATS torque converter does not need much in the way of fluid to transfer power-- would this fix the issue of "low fluid pressure at low RPM's under high torque causing even a good converter to eventually grenade" that many have been worried about? Would it also keep the tranny much cooler- beings it is not using the fluid to do the energy transfer directly (Plus it should be locked up more)? Being rated to 2000 foot pounds and having a 150,000 mile warranty at up to that power rating gives me a warm fuzzy feeling about it. The $1500 price tag does not make me feel so good, however.

But if that is what it takes to solve the problem for good, instead of throwing torque converters at this like they were KJ ball joints, then I will gladly do it.

I called Suncoast Converters and they gave me a price of $695 plus shipping for a new billet converter with a billet stator. The OEM converter has a plastic stator.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/torque-converter2.htm

_________________
'06 CRD Sport, Silver build date 09/05
LoTek 2 pod pillar w/60 psi boost guage & egt
CRD Frankinlift, BFG-AT 31-1050/15 on crager soft 8's
Suncoast converter in a rebuilt trans with new pump and shift kit.
Yeah, It's got a diesel.

SOLD FOR GMC PICKUP

I wish we at least knew the correct stall speed of the pre F37 Torque Converter.

HOW CAN I DETERMINE THE STALL SPEED OF MY CONVERTER?
Stall speed is very difficult to determine unless your car is equipped with a Transbrake to lock your drive train. Testing stall speed by holding the wheel brakes and running the engine against the locked brakes will usually result in wheel rotation before true stall speed is reached. The engine simply overpowers the ability of the brakes to hold the car. When rotation starts you are no longer at stall. For this reason people talk about brake stall which is not a true stall at all. An alternative method of measurement is to launch at wide open throttle and observe engine RPM reached at launch. This is flash stall.

With 4WD engaged the Brake Stall Speed is a bit closer but not perfect...

_________________
Founder of L.O.S.T.
2006 CRD Sport
Mods: GDE Hot Tune w/ 364#@2000rpm/Air Box /3" Str8 Exhaust/ASFIR Alum Skids/245-75R-16 Cooper STT PRO/OME LIFT w/Clevis & 4 Spring Isos/AirTabs/Rigid 10" S2 LED/4xGuard Ctr Matrix Bumper
Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph

Darby, et al

This may or may not help with any explanations of torque converter functions. But it's a start!

BTW, Darby, it does touch on stall speeds. And from everything I've heard/read about Dave Goerend is he has outstanding customer service and an outstanding product. (Unfortunately not for our CRD's!)

http://www.goerend.com/torqueconvertertech.php

_________________
Murf

92 W250, Cummins powered (mine)

06 Liberty Sport 4x4 (hers)

There is a gal over on jeepforum that had one put in and it left her stranded. Something about not getting the TC setting just right. Still working out the bugs for the Libby.

_________________
2006 Sport CRD

Could the Aztecs have known, that in 2012 after a 4 year experiment, our country would cease to exist?

Here's what Ron had to say at Suncoast:

We installed a custom converter yesterday, it drives great and has much
better efficiency than the stock converter. It reduced the amount of RPM
drop on lockup, and still accelerated good. It is going to be wet most
of today so we will have to wait for dry weather to see if we have
improved 0-60 times. Tested some yesterday but I could not get traction
in first gear for a good test.

_________________
2006 CRD Limited
V6 Air Filter Box Mod with Amsoil EaA-201 Air Filter
Mann Provent CCV Filter
Magnaflow Muffler
Mopar Skids
Mobil 1 5W40
Fumoto Oil Drain Valve
Amsoil Throughout

Sounds good. Thanks for the post, been meaning to call Ron and see what the status was. But I've had a bad case of strep throat this week and can barely talk, not helpful for making phone calls.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

No problem.

In fact, I have some business in that part of the country later this month so I'm thinking, in lieu of flying, about driving and dropping it off for an install. I'll see what I can arrange and keep you posted.

_________________
2006 CRD Limited
V6 Air Filter Box Mod with Amsoil EaA-201 Air Filter
Mann Provent CCV Filter
Magnaflow Muffler
Mopar Skids
Mobil 1 5W40
Fumoto Oil Drain Valve
Amsoil Throughout

Hi BVCRD,

Did she have the Goerend or the Suncoast TC installed? Do you have a URL for her discussion.

I wond if the Suncoast version worked good, wouldn't it be worth getting DCX to consider one of these instead of there current solution?

_________________
Steel Blue 07 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD
Mopar Skid Plates/GDE Programmer/Fumoto Oil Valve
80K+ miles & still smiling

Sold: Silver 06 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

I believe she has a "five clutch" ATS TC...the stall speed was set too low and caused it to stall at very low speeds sometimes. I think they have it worked out a bit now.

_________________
Founder of L.O.S.T.
2006 CRD Sport
Mods: GDE Hot Tune w/ 364#@2000rpm/Air Box /3" Str8 Exhaust/ASFIR Alum Skids/245-75R-16 Cooper STT PRO/OME LIFT w/Clevis & 4 Spring Isos/AirTabs/Rigid 10" S2 LED/4xGuard Ctr Matrix Bumper
Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph

She had the ATS version. That is all she was saying. Got stranded in Albuquerque and apparently, ATS folks came and drug her home. I think she was a prototype in her CRD and may actually has relations with someone at the company. She is mega modifying the CRD and sounds like she hangs around with Kyle Petty from her vocab useage and terms. I'll see if I can hunt up that thread.

_________________
2006 Sport CRD

Could the Aztecs have known, that in 2012 after a 4 year experiment, our country would cease to exist?

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthre ... ost3317591



Here you go buddy. Her handle is DieselLady. I may have missed another thread where she really goes into detail on what exactly they are trying to do. Maybe you can do a post search on her. It was when she only had 2 or 3 posts. A Newbie, but by name only I am sure.

_________________
2006 Sport CRD

Could the Aztecs have known, that in 2012 after a 4 year experiment, our country would cease to exist?

Thanks BVCRD!

Your right -- she is not a diesel novice and appears to know what she wants to do with her CRD. It turns out to be an ATS TC and sounds like the TC was the center of the breakdown so, DCX will probably not be sympathetic.

I think this answers the other question I asked too. If the aftermarket TCs are not reliable yet, DCX is not likely to try to enlist one to produce the TC for the F37. However, I saw where Darby was talking about where they have already come up with a more durable solution for military and 2008 vehicles. It might be interesting if they provided that for F37.

_________________
Steel Blue 07 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD
Mopar Skid Plates/GDE Programmer/Fumoto Oil Valve
80K+ miles & still smiling

Sold: Silver 06 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

Yes it would. She claims to just have ambitions for the CRD to be a kid hauler and grocery getter, but those kids in their car seats would be white knuckled. They may give her the money for the replacement, but she has no history and they would want to verify it through the OEM TC.

_________________
2006 Sport CRD

Could the Aztecs have known, that in 2012 after a 4 year experiment, our country would cease to exist?

That Torque Converter diesel lady had was a beta-- its was expected that it would have bugs. They have ironed them out. The converter is good at power levels of up to 2000 foot pounds and has a 150,000 mile warranty at that power level. It should last along time. It is not a "conventional" torque converter but has its own unique design with significant differences designed to reduce the usage of fluid coupling, you can check their web page for more info. I am almost sold on it as no one has posted any comments derogatory of it and the lower the load on the fluid the better.

Here is where I am having a problem, I talked to the dealer and tried to get them to use an after-market torque converter that I provided instead of theirs for F37. No luck. They will only do F37 with their POS converter. Since mine is going out, I am either going to have to pay to get the whole thing done elsewhere (lines and inter-cooler replaced, fluid and filters, and pump) or get F37 done and then pay to get someone else to swap the torque converter out with a torque converter that I bought after-market.

Would it even be ok to have the dealer do the F37 work (including POS torque converter install) and then install another after-market torque converter right after it is done, or would the new pump's seal be damaged in the switch-- requiring another pump (seal) for the after-market torque converter?

I am trying to find a way to minimize my cost in this. I don't mind paying for an aftermarket converter, but I should not have to pay to fix something under warranty on my currently stock powertrain.