The Manual Transmission Blues

Blue KJ in PA · **Posted:** Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:03 am

The key is that all clutches feel and seemingly work different. I learned on a 91 VW Jetta 5 speed that I got due to a 55 mile one way commute back in 95. That stick shifted so smooth and easily, clutching was hardly needed once started and to downshift was easy and fun. 2 years ago when the company I worked for closed the site I was at I took my time finding another job as a chemist and worked on a landscaping crew for a break. I drove their F350 and Chevy HD dump trucks with stick shifts and those clutches were crazy to drive compared to my old VW. But in a while I got used to the high reving and lumbering clutches.

MacAttack · **Posted:** Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:44 pm

I'm getting better at this darn thing, but I have a question:

When I go into 2nd gear it will go, but not at full power, then after a delay the power hits.
Or it will go at full power at first, then cut out a little, then go again.
It doesn't do this every time, but probably at least 50%.
It feels like it's shifting in the middle of my acceleration.

Anybody know why it would do that, or what could be causing it?

moose · **Posted:** Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:56 pm

MacAttack wrote:

I'm getting better at this darn thing, but I have a question:

When I go into 2nd gear it will go, but not at full power, then after a delay the power hits.
Or it will go at full power at first, then cut out a little, then go again.
It doesn't do this every time, but probably at least 50%.
It feels like it's shifting in the middle of my acceleration.

Anybody know why it would do that, or what could be causing it?

well that's what my traction control program is doing to mine in turns, plus causing the ABS to come on in some mild breaking. i'm looking for a cj or tj now...

MacAttack · **Posted:** Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:00 pm

Quote:

well that's what my traction control program is doing to mine in turns, plus causing the ABS to come on in some mild breaking. i'm looking for a cj or tj now...

It's pretty annoying.
I was reading your problem earlier with the ESP. I tried numerous times to get mine to come on today, and it won't do it. I've never seen that light come on, unless I press the deactivate button.

moose · **Posted:** Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:08 pm

MacAttack wrote:

Quote:

well that's what my traction control program is doing to mine in turns, plus causing the ABS to come on in some mild breaking. i'm looking for a cj or tj now...

It's pretty annoying.
I was reading your problem earlier with the ESP. I tried numerous times to get mine to come on today, and it won't do it. I've never seen that light come on, unless I press the deactivate button.

an interesting test would be to run with it turned off for a while andd see if you still have the issue...

hooperswish · **Posted:** Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:09 pm

Macattack,
Mine did the power cutting sort of thing when it was newer, but just when I gave it too much gas...almost seemed like it was "flooding" and would power sag. I have not experienced this in quite a while now. Just keep working and you and your vehicle will become one just like in a kung fu movie.
Just be thankful you don't drive an old truck that needed double clutching. I borrowed one for a move once, and I sure found em and groung em.
Good luck

MacAttack · **Posted:** Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:29 pm

hooperswish wrote:

Macattack,
Mine did the power cutting sort of thing when it was newer, but just when I gave it too much gas...almost seemed like it was "flooding" and would power sag. I have not experienced this in quite a while now. Just keep working and you and your vehicle will become one just like in a kung fu movie.
Just be thankful you don't drive an old truck that needed double clutching. I borrowed one for a move once, and I sure found em and groung em.
Good luck

Well.........maybe it will quit doing it then. I only have 1700 miles. I'm going to turn off esp also and see if that does anything.
I test drove an automatic yesterday just for the hell of it.
Getting going was sure a lot easier and less stressful, but the manual has so much more power and acceleration.
Not sure which I would rather have now, so I might as well just keep what I got.

MacAttack · **Posted:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:25 am

Ok.......I'm going to test drive another one again, and then take this thing in if I think it's the Jeep and not me. Here are the issues I'm still having:

1. Hesitation when accelerating in 1st and 2nd gears. 2nd sometimes has dead spots or a power sag when accelerating.

2. 1st gear is jerky (this may be normal since it's so low)

3. Almost impossible to shift without hearing clunking, rattling noises from under the Jeep.

4. Downshifting often results in a harsh shift or a thunk into the lower gear.

5. 2 or 3 times now when accelerating in 2nd I have heard a scraping noise lasting a couple seconds. Seems to be associated with a power sag also. Very strange, and like I said, I only heard it 2 or 3 times in 1700 miles.

That's it. Maybe I'm nuts, maybe I'm not. I hope I have time to go test drive one tomorrow now that I know exactly what to watch for. 2nd gear is definitely worse than any of them. It seems to drive better sometimes, feels worse after it's all warmed up and been driven for a while. No smells from clutch.

MacAttack · **Posted:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:59 pm

I test drove one tonight.
Something is wrong with mine.
I'll be taking it in tomorrow morning.
Unfortunately I'll have to pay for a rental (at a reduced price I guess).

The biggest difference between mine and the test drive is that mine clunks and rattles underneath in the first 4 gears when you press the clutch down and when you let it up. Higher gears are fine. I am tired of this thing. Wish they would give me my 14-year old pickup back. It ran fine.

dirtykj · **Posted:** Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:33 am

Told ya ...

MacAttack · **Posted:** Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:15 am

dirtykj wrote:

Told ya ...

If they find nothing wrong with it I promise I'll get some medication. :lol:

If I hear "we couldn't duplicate the problem" I may go postal. It would be best to stay out of Oregon for the next couple days.
You have been warned !

moose · **Posted:** Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:11 am

MacAttack wrote:

dirtykj wrote:

Told ya ...

If they find nothing wrong with it I promise I'll get some medication. :lol:

If I hear "we couldn't duplicate the problem" I may go postal. It would be best to stay out of Oregon for the next couple days.
You have been warned !

We'll keep an eye on the news. I hope there's a good chase and you engage 4WD to evade :twisted:

Blue KJ in PA · **Posted:** Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:57 am

Kind like that utube vid of the icy roads with the one guy that kept his foot on the gas and played autopinball... :lol:

MacAttack · **Posted:** Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:02 pm

The Jeep is at the dealer.
I'm just waiting for the phone call now saying they could find nothing wrong.
I've been looking on the internet and found what sounds like my main problem which is "Driveline Lash".
I guess there are a few different things which could cause this to be excessive, so hopefully they'll find something.
The sound is similar to what you would hear if you pulled out a drawer on a metal toolbox that just had a screwdriver or wrench in it and pushed it back in. Gets worse the longer you drive as things warm up.

I don't know what's causing the other problems. At least I get to try out a rental Automatic Liberty today. It was nice to drive on the way to work this morning.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:47 pm

I'm sure you will like the auto. There are limites to any feat of engineering. Maybe it just couldn't take it anymore.

dirtykj · **Posted:** Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:02 pm

Or it may be caffeine :twisted:

or adrenaline.

You don't wanna sit in my Jeep after I've played a particularly good game of UT2k4 ... I swear I can make my Jeep hop.

MurrayA · **Posted:** Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:23 pm

I've suffered problems with my six speed since new. Everything experienced by Macattack mirrors my experience exactly.

I felt that the poor shift quality was due to bad or tight synchro's causing gear clash into 2nd and 3rd. I also noticed pronounced engine stutter on turns and random application of the brakes.

Well, I can tell you, the cure for the transmission is just a matter of racking up significant break in mileage. At 10,000 miles it is becoming butter smooth.

The engine stutter is another problem entirely.

Every time I took it back the dealer their diagnostics came up empty. DCX engineering also denied any knowledge of the issue but arranged for me to drive with a recording device called a co-pilot for a week at a time. I would push a button during the engine stutter and the co-pilot device was supposed to record data on the pcm bus for a period of time before and after the event. Well, it turns out that the co-pilot was unable to record any data due to a bug in the system firmware.

After ten trips back to the dealer they finally decided to have a mechanic drive it for a week to experience the problem first hand and change parts he suspected to cause the problem.

To make a long story short, they ended up replacing the engine PCM and all the wheel speed sensors.... twice! Apparently even the new front sensors still didn't work properly and were replaced again.

Finally, for the past two week all seems ok.

moose · **Posted:** Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:55 pm

MurrayA wrote:

I've suffered problems with my six speed since new. Everything experienced by Macattack mirrors my experience exactly.

I felt that the poor shift quality was due to bad or tight synchro's causing gear clash into 2nd and 3rd. I also noticed pronounced engine stutter on turns and random application of the brakes.

Well, I can tell you, the cure for the transmission is just a matter of racking up significant break in mileage. At 10,000 miles it is becoming butter smooth.

The engine stutter is another problem entirely.

Every time I took it back the dealer their diagnostics came up empty. DCX engineering also denied any knowledge of the issue but arranged for me to drive with a recording device called a co-pilot for a week at a time. I would push a button during the engine stutter and the co-pilot device was supposed to record data on the pcm bus for a period of time before and after the event. Well, it turns out that the co-pilot was unable to record any data due to a bug in the system firmware.

After ten trips back to the dealer they finally decided to have a mechanic drive it for a week to experience the problem first hand and change parts he suspected to cause the problem.

To make a long story short, they ended up replacing the engine PCM and all the wheel speed sensors.... twice! Apparently even the new front sensors still didn't work properly and were replaced again.

Finally, for the past two week all seems ok.

I wonder if that's the problem I'm blaming on the ESP/TC...

MacAttack · **Posted:** Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:27 pm

I just got my Jeep back tonight.
I'm pretty sure they did nothing. Said that the insulation at the top of the boot tower had shifted. That's it.
The only thing I have noticed that's different so far is that the engine has almost stalled a couple times now.....once when slowing down while in 4th gear, and another time it stuttered while idling in the parking lot.

So now add one more problem to my list..........thank you dealer, and also the uncomfortable feeling you get when someone else drives your vehicle around without you there.

MurrayA......you are my closest friend now. I'm putting you in my will. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one with these problems with the 6-speed.

KJ04 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:40 pm

TIME TO ENACT THE LEMON LAW!

The Manual Transmission Blues

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