Alternator problems

W3CSX · **Posted:** Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:37 pm

My Jeep left me for dead yesterday. I tried to leave work and it wouldn’t run. It started really hard the first time I tried to turn it over. The CEL came on and stalled shortly there after. Then all I got was a click when I turned the key. All the electrical was working. The battery seemed fine. It was towed into the local Jeep dealer. They called today said the alternator is bad. To make it worse, a new one is three days away. I guess I finally hit the wall of my electrical capability. Too many electrical add-on’s.

Anyone know where I can get a larger one that will work on a CRD?

Kellog13 · **Joined:** Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:21 pm **Posts:** 74

You have not overloaded it, it's just cheap garbage. I've gone through one and a battery already with just XM added for additional load requirements. The fun is just starting.....

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

I've not seen any aftermarket alternators for the CRD. I did notice when I first compared amp ratings that the CRD has a lower rated alternator than the V6 Liberty, Renegade or even the I4 gasser. The V6 is a 136 amp, Renegage 160 amp and the CRD a 95 amp alternator. I'm wondering if this has to do with the generally lower rpm operating range of the diesel engine, possibly causing a different alternator to be used on the CRD.

Since we appear to have less charging capability, have you considered one of the many deep cycle batteries instead of higher charging rate?

no-blue-screen · **Posted:** Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:32 pm

I second Ranger1's recommendation of a deep cycle battery. If you want to stay with Optima, maybe take a look at their Yellow-top line.

alljeep · **Posted:** Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:49 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

The V6 is a 136 amp, Renegage 160 amp and the CRD a 95 amp alternator.

Is ours 95amp whether or not we have the factory tow package on the CRD? I have an early release of the 2005 Service Manual on disk and it is mum on the CRD alternator - no data at all.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

I believe its the same alternator on the CRD regardless. Mine has the tow as well, nothing anywhere I can find to indicate otherwise. If there are those really loading up their CRD's with electrical gadgets, there are Yellow tops, and even other brands of deep cycle batteries that have more amp-hours than Optima. I like the Optima for their vibration resistance, but if I had really heavy loads I might be looking at some of the other brands - they are large, heavy batteries and might even take some mods to fit, but they have tremendous amp-hour ratings. Deka is one that comes to mind, for example. The deep cycle might be worth a look.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:43 pm

I can't wait to see the semi tractor battery and alternator mod... :-)r

heat · **Posted:** Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:52 pm

Just a quick note here... The diesels don't have any spark plugs to run :mrgreen:

.... Don't need as many amps.....

Ken....

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

True, but if you look at his rig, it appears to have some ham gear, hence his screen name I'm guessing and something else I couldn't make out on the dash. Plus he offroads, which means he may spend quite a bit of time at very low rpm, low charge rates.

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

Ranger1 wrote:

True, but if you look at his rig, it appears to have some ham gear, hence his screen name I'm guessing and something else I couldn't make out on the dash. Plus he offroads, which means he may spend quite a bit of time at very low rpm, low charge rates.

Plus the light bar on the top... I am sure that draws some power when it is running. I could see how all of that going would kill an alternator trying to keep up. If I am not mistaken-- you can send the core off to an alternator shop and can rewind and rework it to get you much more juice out of it. I would try that route if you can't cross reference a part.

alljeep · **Posted:** Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:29 pm

heat wrote:

Just a quick note here... The diesels don't have any spark plugs to run :mrgreen:

.... Don't need as many amps.....

Ken....

Yeah, sometimes the obvious gets overlooked (at least it did by me)

My main concern is with the large pop-up camper that I tow has lots of trailer lights in addition to a battery that gets a trickle charge from the tow vehicle charge line. Also, I was planning on running the refridgerator on 12V while towing to the campgrounds to keep the food cool. I think I have good potential to put a serious overload on the CRD charging system.

Stan Wright · **Posted:** Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:06 am

I think our alternators are Denso P/N 104210-4241. I can't find any cross references, though.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:58 pm

Being that the tractors here at work only have 105 amp alternators in them and they manage to power the entire semi plus all the trailer lights and abs crap I think a 95 amp alternator should be more than sufficient. They do have three batteries though.
I would go for more battery instead of more alternator.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:09 am

I just checked the FSM and it does not list our 2.8L but does list 2.4L and 3.7L.

The smallest is listed at 124 SAE RATED and 88 miminum test amperage. The largest is 160 SAE and mim test amperage is112. They are all DENSO but no part numbers listed

FYI our optima batteries by the nature of their sprial wrapped cell design are a deep discharge battery, just not as deep as the yellow top. Also the peak amperage is slightly less and the maximum charging voltage is 14.4 for ten minutes and then drops off as the time increases. Our Red Top batteries in my thinking are a good compromise for the CRD. I base my thinking on the large initial glow plug dray before the starter is even engaged.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:34 am

The Electronic Voltage Regulator (EVR) is not a separate component. It is actually a voltage regulating circuit located within the Powertrain Control Module (PCM). The EVR is not serviced separately. If replacement is necessary, the PCM must be replaced.

The amount of DC current produced by the generator is controlled by EVR circuitry contained within the Powertrain Control Module (PCM). This circuitry is connected in series with the generators second rotor field terminal and its ground.

Voltage is regulated by cycling the ground path to control the strength of the rotor magnetic field. The EVR circuitry monitors system line voltage (B+) and battery temperature (refer to Battery Temperature Sensor for more information). It then determines a target charging voltage. If sensed battery voltage is 0.5 volts or lower than the target voltage, the PCM grounds the field winding until sensed battery voltage is 0.5 volts above target voltage. A circuit in the PCM cycles the ground side of the generator field up to 100 times per second (100Hz), but has the capability to ground the field control wire 100% of the time (full field) to achieve the target voltage. If the charging rate cannot be monitored (limp-in), a duty cycle of 25% is used by the PCM in order to have some generator output.

The Battery Temperature Sensor (BTS) is attached to the battery tray located under the battery.

The BTS is used to determine the battery temperature and control battery charging rate. This temperature data, along with data from monitored line voltage, is used by the PCM to vary the battery charging rate. System voltage will be higher at colder temperatures and is gradually reduced at warmer temperatures.

The PCM sends 5 volts to the sensor and is grounded through the sensor return line. As temperature increases, resistance in the sensor decreases and the detection voltage at the PCM increases.

The BTS is also used for OBD II diagnostics. Certain faults and OBD II monitors are either enabled or disabled, depending upon BTS input (for example, disable purge and enable Leak Detection Pump (LDP) and O2 sensor heater tests). Most OBD II monitors are disabled below 20 degrees F.

huxrules · **Posted:** Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:26 am

DZL_LOU - That method of charging the batteries seem about a billion times harder than it should be. So much for the KISS principal. However I'm sure that for most systems in this car I would be shocked at the complexity.

W3CSX · **Posted:** Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:11 pm

Lots of great info everyone. Sorry I haven't been around to comment on any of this. I have been out of town.

I have already shoved a Yellow top in about a year ago. I think my power draw is just too overwhelming for the system. Besides 720 Watts of lighting. I've loaded a On-Board Air system 19 amps. 2 Ham radios, one has a 100watt transmitter. Plus a few other small things. I certainly do not run every thing all at once. I will not key up a radio if I have the KC lights on or the OBA. But after time I think it’s taken it toil.

I have been in contact with a distributor for Mean Green Alternators. They are looking into making me one for the CRD. If they do it will become part of there catalog for anyone. I just don't want to put another stock unit into this to also fry. The Stealership wants almost $700.00 parts and labor to fix it.

Something tells me it's not just a bolt on bigger repair. What kind of problems will I run into with the computer and such with say a 160amp unit?

Edit: Until this came about. I didn’t realize we have such a small alternator. I always thought we had the 160amp found in a Renny. I can swear I heard that somewhere before I bought mine. Teach me not to look at it.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:17 pm

Quote:

DZL_LOU - That method of charging the batteries seem about a billion times harder than it should be. So much for the KISS principal. However I'm sure that for most systems in this car I would be shocked at the complexity

It makes sense because DC used a gel cell battery for whatever reason( vibration resistance imho) They are extemely sensitive to over charging and don't take well to being completely drained either. I know you have to have a battery charger that is rated for gel-type batts to even charge one. At first I thought it was cool that it had an optima in it. Not any more.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:30 pm

onthehunt wrote:

Quote:

DZL_LOU - That method of charging the batteries seem about a billion times harder than it should be. So much for the KISS principal. However I'm sure that for most systems in this car I would be shocked at the complexity

It makes sense because DC used a gel cell battery for whatever reason( vibration resistance imho) They are extemely sensitive to over charging and don't take well to being completely drained either. I know you have to have a battery charger that is rated for gel-type batts to even charge one. At first I thought it was cool that it had an optima in it. Not any more.

You don't need a "special" charger for Optima batteries,you need a yellow or blue top.The yellow and blue tops are made for high amp draws and repeated drains and recharges(blue top is really great for constant drains and recharges),I have a yellow top for my Warn winch and stereo and have had zero problems.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:55 pm

onthehunt wrote:

Being that the tractors here at work only have 105 amp alternators in them and they manage to power the entire semi plus all the trailer lights and abs crap I think a 95 amp alternator should be more than sufficient. They do have three batteries though.
I would go for more battery instead of more alternator.

Are the tractors 24 Volt these days? If so, 105 amps at 24 Volts is equivalent to 210 amps at 12 volts. That said, I think a 95 amp alternator should be sufficient for most CRDs. The other question is one of duty cycle. I seriously doubt the CRD alternator is rated 95 amps at a continuous duty cycle.

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