Quality of Diesel Fuel: Hess, Shell, Sunoco, BP, Site, etc..

GregScuba · **Posted:** Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:16 am

Anyone have any experience with who carries the good stuff, and the not so good. I Know I have heard some negative comments in the past about Shell Diesel, but that is about the extent. Anyone care to add, or make a breakdown? I am (and many others, I'm sure, are) very curious.

KenJennings · **Posted:** Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:55 am

I've been able to correlate lower MPG and more smoke with diesel from five Shell stations around my house. I guess they get it all from the same lousy source. I suspect that Shell's standard franchise blueprint has the men's room wastewater output line crossed with the diesel tank input.

I usually fuel up at a Sunoco near my office which has six diesel pumps -- (which includes two for off road diesel.) That's about the same as their number of gas pumps. Many other stations will have eight gas pumps and one diesel pump. I get less smoke, a more quiet idle, and a bit better MPG from their diesel. The move a lot of fuel so I suspect it is usually "fresh".

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

I travel all over northern new england for my job on a regular basis and often am up in canada and down in the ny/nj area as well. I always look for the cheapest fuel. Personally, I have found little, if any difference in brands. Yes, on occasion I might get a tank or two of "low mpg" fuel, but its really not a big issue.

The fuel all comes from a common source anyway (the dirty little secret of the petro industry) so why pay a premium which goes just for the cost of advertising how wonderful the fuel is supposed to be.

I have had no problems with fuel bubbles, or clogged filter. I change the fuel filter it out at the 24k intervals without issue. In almost 150k miles with my old '78 vw rabbit diesel there was only one incident which (maybe) involved bad fuel.

I really beleive that this is another issue people are overthinking and obsessing about. Just turn the key and drive the thing !

dgeist · **Posted:** Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:51 am

My experience has been mixed with brands and generally, the quality of fuel seems to correlate to the quality of the place that sells it (regardless of brand). The place that's in the middle of no-where and seems to not get much diesel traffic (by admission of the operator) seemed a little OLD (or perhaps it still has LSD in it). In the other direction, the no-name mom-and-pop that's right next to the interstate that's constantly servicing the Isuzu landscaping trucks driving around the metro seems to always be clean and have a fresh supply.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:04 pm

It's not so much the quality of the fuel to begin with, but more the QUALITY CONTROL on the part of the distribution chain - at the refineries, storage facilities, distribution terminals, tankers, and individual service stations. If anywhere along the line, someone doesn't give a hirsute rodent's posterior as to the quality of the fuel - cleanliness, water and microbe contamination, correct additive package - you're going to end up with a poor product out of the pump.

While the area each covers is quite large, different areas of the country are supplied by different refineries and distribution terminals.

In vtdog's case, where he's never had a problem anywhere in New England, it could very well be that the entire area is being supplied by only one or two refineries, such that the diesel he buys in his area is ultimately supplied by the same company, no matter the brand on the pump.

However, here in my area of NC, from what I've learned we have the territories of at least 3 different refinery and distribution companies overlapping, and you can find a marked difference in the quality of the fuel depending on the brand and the type of facility.

And on my trips cross country, I've certainly found a difference in the quality of fuel, not so much by brand but depending on what area of the country you're buying it in.

I have used Shell in other areas of the country without any problems or serious falloff in MPG, but here in my local area of NC I wouldn't touch it - poor MPG, excessive smoke, and two clogged fuel filters - whether that's due to the quality of the fuel originally supplied or how the local Shell stations are maintained.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

I would agree with Mitch - the quality of even the same brand by station varies greatly in this area. I've used a Shell ULSD in the University area with tremendous results - very smooth, lots of power, no smoke, quiet running and excellent mileage. I let that fool me into buying Shell ULSD at another station 8 miles away. Smoke, louder engine noise, less power and nearly 3 mpg less fuel economy resulted. I even double dosed that tankful with PS gray and it didn't help very much at all. A really low quality fuel.

I have used Shell ULSD at the University area station many times since last fall - it has consistently provided excellent results. I also notice many large service diesel trucks at that station, every time I've fueled up there. I have to believe that either different supplier/additive packages or lack of quality control at the other shell station is the cause.

After that experience, I tried half a tank of Walmart (Murphy Oil Co.) - a real stretch for me as I tried them in the summer of 05 and it sounded like a jackhammer - I thought the engine was throwing a rod, it was nailing so badly. I thought with the refineries at 80% ULSD now it might be worth the chance at 20 cents a gallon less. Results are a smooth running, no smoke, plenty of power and quiet engine - well worth the risk :-)

. It's not quite as good as the good Shell station, but every bit as good as name brand stations I've used in the past - Texaco, BP, Chevron, Amoco. I also noticed lots of diesel pickup trucks fueling there. For this area, a consistent volume of diesel traffic seems to be one good indicator of decent fuel.

rjmaype · **Posted:** Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:02 pm

I am a former marketing engineer for the largest oil company.

Gasoline and diesel are stored in common tanks at terminals for different brands.

Gasoline has specific additive chemicals per brand and there is a generic additive also. So Exxon gasoline is different from Chevron and Shell.

Diesel has no additive package and the same stuff is delivered to the various branded retail fuel marketers.

Quality can vary per refinery and as posted earilier, the quality control chain in delivery and storage makes the most difference.

By the way, we were not allowed to put premium gasoline in our company cars because the increased MPG was not economical for the increase in cost.

naturist · **Posted:** Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:48 am

I'm with rjmape: diesel quality is varied, but based upon the wholesale distributor, not the retailer for the most part. The primary market for diesel fuel is truckers, who care about one thing: price. As long as the truck runs when they push down on that little pedal and they get the best price, they are happy. You and I with our niche-market Jeeps and VWs and MBs and Dodge RAMs are not big enough for anybody with clout to care.

So your experience of finding (for example) that the Brand A stations in your area serve up crappy diesel and the Brand B stations have the good stuff may or may not help me in my area.

That said, diesel fuel in the US is generally pretty low quality. Those of us with modern European engines do need to find where the good stuff is. That ancient VW mentioned above won't care about quality fuel, but new VWs, etc. certainly do. In my area the better fuels have been associated with Hess stations. BP/Amoco doesn't have enough of a footprint here, thus wind up buying rotgut from the same wholesalers as supply Shell, East Coast, Chevron, etc. There are no Sunoco stations here.

dgeist · **Posted:** Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:00 am

rjmaype wrote:

I am a former marketing engineer for the largest oil company.

Diesel has no additive package and the same stuff is delivered to the various branded retail fuel marketers.

Question: assuming this is true (and I have no reason to doubt you or anyone else here), what would explain the varrying quality that I seem to find near me? Am I in overlapping distribution areas? (I'm about 5 miles from what I thought was the primary diesel fuel and CNG distribution site for most of the southeast US (doraville GA).

I do know that chicken-bio doesn't run quite as smoothly as veggie-bio and gells WAY earlier

retmil46 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:37 am

Even if there aren't any additives added at the distribution point, that's not to stop the individual station/brand/chain owner from putting in their own additives after delivery.

Case in point - Penn Mart on Main Street in Salisbury NC. They sell B20 (from a distributor other than Ray Thomas). On their pump they have a sign saying that an additive called "DZL-PEP w/ ATT" has been added. I've came across this in retail quart bottle form at Homer's Truck Stop in Statesville, made by a company in Texas.

It might also vary by area and country whether or not additives are used in diesel fuel. Over on Jeepforum, a gent got a reply from Shell Canada asking what the difference between their regular and premium diesel was. Their e-mail reply basically stated that premium diesel had an additive package to boost cetane, reduce gelling and fungal growth, etc.

Fabian · **Posted:** Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:50 am

From my experience driving my beater Mercedes and the CRD over the last 5 years I've concluded that quality varies from station to station without regard to brand. Best you can do is find a station that your machine likes. On trips into unfamiliar territory, I fill up at truck stops and have never had a problem.

During a February trip across country I filled up at a truck stop in Tennessee that was selling BioWillie B5. My CRD purred like a kitten and got over 27 mpg on that. Unfortunately, I couldn't remember where the truck stop was on the way back. Doh!

spencevans · **Posted:** Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:47 am

I always buy from the Flying J because that where the big rigs go and they have a high turnover in diesel fuel.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:03 pm

spencevans wrote:

I always buy from the Flying J because that where the big rigs go and they have a high turnover in diesel fuel.

Speak of the devil. I've always wondered why once a week, on my way to work, I passed a Flying J tanker traveling in the opposite direction within a couple miles from the plant. Turns out he was refilling the storage tanks at the Cleveland plant.

alpnst · **Posted:** Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:40 pm

Fabian wrote:

During a February trip across country I filled up at a truck stop in Tennessee that was selling BioWillie B5. My CRD purred like a kitten and got over 27 mpg on that. Unfortunately, I couldn't remember where the truck stop was on the way back. Doh!

That is at exit 288, the middle TN truck plaza on Hwy 40 between Nashville and Knoxville.

Quality of Diesel Fuel: Hess, Shell, Sunoco, BP, Site, etc..

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