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FlaJeepDiver · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:16 pm

http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/index.html

The day we have all been dreading is here. Live from New York it's not Saturday night. It's the new 2008 KK? It's big it's boxy and it's not nearly as cute as the KJ. Gosh I'll miss the KJ. Are we now going to become the lost KK's? I hate it when an auto maker does does such a drastic change in such a short time. The renegade has looked the same for many years and still sells well. Why oh why did they kill the KJ and make it look like a Dodge Nitro? Actually it looks more like the after birth of a H3. It's bulky, boxy, and just plain old square. The KJ was sweet sexy and rough on the rocks. If I wanted a 4.0 box I could have bought the old Cherokee.

Does this mean after 5 years I will have trouble getting parts for my KJ?
How much will these boxes cost? When will they be available? Do I really want one?
So much stress. I was so happy the day I found my KJ just sitting on the lot with it's trade mark Jeep smile. I've seen the spy photos, and I have to tell you this is an angry looking vehicle. I am not a happy camper not one bit. I'm running down to the Jeep dealer and getting one more Libby!
:twisted:

jerbacher · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:45 pm

FlaJeepDiver wrote:

I hate it when an auto maker does does such a drastic change in such a short time.

Like the change from Cherokee to Liberty?

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:56 pm

It is the way of the auto world these days...models run 3-5 years then have major facelifts. I am OK with that as long as the new one is as good or better. Seems lately that the changes are always based on "BIGGER is BETTER" and that is not always the case. The original KJ lasted 6 models years without any "real changes" and was the best selling New Jeep and the current Best Selling Midsize SUV!

FlaJeepDiver · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:44 pm

I saw the broadcast. Okay it might be a Jeep but it's not a Liberty.
I hate the head lights. Those European looking things are not Jeep headlights.
It's very square. They gave someone in design a T square and said draw a box. So they stayed up all night and went in the next office and stole the body shape of a Nitro.
I've seen pictures now I've seen video. I don't feel the love like I did when I first saw the Liberty in 02. You took one look at a Liberty and you knew that was KEWL! You take one look at this new design and want to see grandpa with one of those little barret type caps.

I just called a dealer and I'm buying an 07. Okay it dosent have Hill descent. I know how to get down a hill okay and I know how to start on a hill. Besides I doubt there are 2 percent of all Jeep drivers that have roads and rough as I do on a daily basis.

One last thing what up with that dumb crumbling roof? It looks like a rapper with pushed down pants. A pug dog with a wrinkled face.
Nope sorry I don't spend 30 thousand on boxes with wheels. I said it looked like a baby Hummer and I still think it does. :mrgreen:

lilmatty · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:53 pm

What's a Short-Long arm suspension?

BiodieselJeep.com · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:56 pm

hate it.

Fold back roof might be the only feature that ever gets me to look twice at the thing.

Butt ugly. And I owned an english bulldog.

Tokyojoe · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:14 pm

lilmatty wrote:

What's a Short-Long arm suspension?

Is that like an Oxymoron?

Tokyojoe · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:19 pm

jerbacher wrote:

FlaJeepDiver wrote:

I hate it when an auto maker does does such a drastic change in such a short time.

Like the change from Cherokee to Liberty?

Cherokee was around a long time and the Liberty was a totally new vehicle. A replacement with a new name. The Liberty KK is a so called upgrade from the current model. They really should have changed the name. It is not the same vehicle anymore. They could have easily gone back to the Cherokee name, but wonder if the native Cherokees have issues with having vehicles named after their tribe.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:21 pm

lilmatty wrote:

What's a Short-Long arm suspension?

Same thing our KJ's have in the front,short UCA and long LCA.

chero37 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:40 am

I did not like the 2002 Liberty when I first saw it. But I own one now.
I do not like the new 2008 Liberty now. But I think in 2 or 3 years I will own one.
Nothing can replace the old Cherokee, so I will keep my 1998 2.5i sport (4 banger) for ever.

FlaJeepDiver · **Posted:** Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:59 pm

If you go to the Jeep website and check out build my Liberty for the 08 let me tell you first they spare is hidden underneath and it's not a full size spare. They want 150.00 dollars extra or at least at this time in history they want 150.00 Dollars extra, I'll say it one more time they want 150.00 dollars extra for a full size spare. What in blazes am I going to do with a mud covered spare that is not full size? Let's just say for example I'm out there, some place really cool and rough. I get the oh my gosh flat! I need a real tire to get out and get back home. What the heck am I gonna do with that stupid doughnut tire? break out the coffee and wait for a tow?
That is not very Jeeperly! a Jeep stuck with a "TEMPA SPARE"? what will those crazy Germans think of next. A squre looking Liberty? Well folks there goes there neighborhood. Jeeps stuck with TEMPA SPARES, and you thought it couldnt get worse. We asked for better gas milage, did we get that? Noooooo... We asked for a little more space inside did we get that? yes at the expense of making the Libby look like shoe box with wheels.
Hold on to your Libbys they are destined to become classics.
Another in the long line of sure footed Jeeps. The classic Libby will go up in value. Remember you read it here first. :twisted:

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

I have to say, looking at it on the Jeep site I really like it. With a diesel option I'd be hard pressed not to upgrade. Since among other things I use mine as a mobile office, the fold flat front seat with a groove for a laptop is really appealing, as is the standard AC outlet.

The retractable roof is useless however and a leak begging to happen. Maybe if I lived in Arizona, but it won't fly in the northwest. And no diesel = no sale.

BiodieselJeep.com · **Posted:** Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:34 pm

I looked over the website. It ain't all dog, but it is a mutt at best.

Certainly not as capable as the current CRD Libby for towing or off-roading. That spare is a real deal-breaker. Kind like the roof thing, though. Looks like it leaks for sure.

Way too many simlar cars/jeeps in this line-up. What exactly will be the differences?

For my money, I'd probably get a 4 door wrangler at this point. But only if it was a diesel.

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:45 pm

Man, the poor Jeep hasn't even come out yet and here goes everyone bashing on the Liberty already. The best part about the Liberty is that it's a Midsized SUV that goes everywhere you want it to. And by making the body more "traditional" does that really effect the Liberty's ability to go anywhere and carry all your gear? Some people sound just like the Cherokee guys did back in 2001 when the Liberty was unveiled to the public.

I love the new look. Sure the headlights could use some re-doing and the recent exterior color choices are not what I prefer but it is still a Jeep. The driveline is nearly identical to the existing model and yet everyone is all "I hate it," "I hate it."

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:24 pm

sleeve84028 wrote:

Man, the poor Jeep hasn't even come out yet and here goes everyone bashing on the Liberty already. The best part about the Liberty is that it's a Midsized SUV that goes everywhere you want it to. And by making the body more "traditional" does that really effect the Liberty's ability to go anywhere and carry all your gear? Some people sound just like the Cherokee guys did back in 2001 when the Liberty was unveiled to the public.

I love the new look. Sure the headlights could use some re-doing and the recent exterior color choices are not what I prefer but it is still a Jeep. The driveline is nearly identical to the existing model and yet everyone is all "I hate it," "I hate it."

I don't mind the new KK,the only thing I'm really disappionted in is the deletion of the manual t-case shifter.I hated the KJ when it first came out to and it grew on me enough to buy one.I'm sure the KK will grow on me to,but I'm not in the market for a new vehicle anytime soon.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:28 pm

I don't think everyone is "Bashing" it...just telling thier preference. Bashing and Flaming would be a whole different level like in the old days of Cherokee vs Liberty (2002 on JeepsUnlimited.com).

The new Liberty KK is definitely going for a few more creature comforts. The other big changes are the small spare and electronic 4WD lever amoung other things.

Without any really new drivetrain (diesel or more powerful engine), the new KK does nothing for me. The KJ "looked fun" while the KK "looks utilitarian".

Guest · **Posted:** Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:57 am

I don't remember ever seeing an XJ with anything BUT a donut spare. That's not very Jeepish either:) I know my dad's 84 XJ has never had anything BUT a donut next to the drivers side cargo window.

I hated the KJ when it came out, and I'm not a big fan of this thing either...but 6 years ago when the Liberty was introduced, who would have guessed that I'd buy one and love it? Maybe in a few years after mine has an SFA and an EFI 351W, I'll get a KK to drive daily, and by then we'll have an LK or something that we can all gripe about:D

And yeah, I was actually kind of hoping the 4-door Wrangler (oh, and WTF is up with 4wd being OPTIONAL on the Unlimited???) was going to replace the Liberty to keep it from getting screwed up. the 08 isn't BAD, but it DOES look like a Commander with downs syndrome.

FlaJeepDiver · **Posted:** Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:42 am

At least that was a full on body change and the sales were slumping. Also it had been many years before the change.

Now in just 5 short years they killed the best selling SUV in North America (If you believe the advertising).

I think the Marketing team forgot to check with the sales team. Even if sales were getting a little flat, what really should have been done was improve gas milage. That's the one thing everyone had agreed was becoming a big killer for the Jeep. Have they done that? Nope! Why not? darn if I know. Certainly they could have possibly put in a 3.0 engine for those that don't off road. Right there they would have upped the miles and reduced the weight. Poof a 5 mpg increase, how tell me that would not have improved sales alot better then making it look like a hummer? If BMW can run with a 3.0 why couldnt a Libby? Imagine miles from about 24 city to 30 highway! You would'nt find a Libby in any dealers. I drove mine 100 miles a day 50 miles each way. Do you have any idea how happy I would be with 30 mpg highway! I go off road in the Florida Everglades darn you know what a bummer it is to have to have to carry extra gas. I bought the Libby gas was about 1.43 a gallon now it's about 2.75 a gal. Put that in your new Libby and tell me how they could have modified the Vechile. Nope the KK is a looser. Especially with gas prices going to 3 bucks a gallon. :cry:

sleeve84028 wrote:

Man, the poor Jeep hasn't even come out yet and here goes everyone bashing on the Liberty already. The best part about the Liberty is that it's a Midsized SUV that goes everywhere you want it to. And by making the body more "traditional" does that really effect the Liberty's ability to go anywhere and carry all your gear? Some people sound just like the Cherokee guys did back in 2001 when the Liberty was unveiled to the public.

I love the new look. Sure the headlights could use some re-doing and the recent exterior color choices are not what I prefer but it is still a Jeep. The driveline is nearly identical to the existing model and yet everyone is all "I hate it," "I hate it."

BiodieselJeep.com · **Posted:** Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:15 pm

[quote="FlaJeepDiver"]
I think the Marketing team forgot to check with the sales team. Even if sales were getting a little flat, what really should have been done was improve gas milage. That's the one thing everyone had agreed was becoming a big killer for the Jeep. Have they done that? Nope! Why not? darn if I know. Certainly they could have possibly put in a 3.0 engine for those that don't off road. Right there they would have upped the miles and reduced the weight. Poof a 5 mpg increase, how tell me that would not have improved sales alot better then making it look like a hummer? If BMW can run with a 3.0 why couldnt a Libby? Imagine miles from about 24 city to 30 highway! You would'nt find a Libby in any dealers. I drove mine 100 miles a day 50 miles each way. Do you have any idea how happy I would be with 30 mpg highway! I go off road in the Florida Everglades darn you know what a bummer it is to have to have to carry extra gas. I bought the Libby gas was about 1.43 a gallon now it's about 2.75 a gal. Put that in your new Libby and tell me how they could have modified the Vechile. Nope the KK is a looser. Especially with gas prices going to 3 bucks a gallon. :cry:

quote]

Well, there is my CRD getting 22-28 mpg (more now with mods). The diesel KJ sold like hotcakes. Course, they screwed that up and pulled it because of emissions.

Can't win. I will replace my CRD KJ wen the Unlimited JK 4 door gets a diesel. Actually, I'll ever replace my CRD KJ. It rocks and will last forever.

jcphoto20 · **Joined:** Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:36 am **Posts:** 507

pass, the only other one i might swap for is a CRD. but they have their share of bugs.

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