Who Wants A Better Fuel Filter Thats Cheaper To Replace?

Jeger · **Posted:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:13 pm

oldnavy wrote:

Jeger wrote:

One quick question, and hopefully it hasnt been answered already.

It is my understanding that the factory filter will seperate, or at least absorb water that may be in the fuel and not allow it to pass through.

Will either the CAT or New Holland filter do this? Or will we be left with zero water seperation abilities should the need ever arise?

The OEM filter does not seem to stop water and it causes the filter material to come apart and allows water and trash to pass to "clean" side. The Cat filter stops water and does not come apart like the OEM filter when it blocks the water.

Good, thanks :wink:

Anyone know about the New Holland Filter?

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:15 pm

Jeger wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

Jeger wrote:

One quick question, and hopefully it hasnt been answered already.

It is my understanding that the factory filter will seperate, or at least absorb water that may be in the fuel and not allow it to pass through.

Will either the CAT or New Holland filter do this? Or will we be left with zero water seperation abilities should the need ever arise?

The OEM filter does not seem to stop water and it causes the filter material to come apart and allows water and trash to pass to "clean" side. The Cat filter stops water and does not come apart like the OEM filter when it blocks the water.

Good, thanks :wink:

Anyone know about the New Holland Filter?

See above a couple of posts. :wink:

Jeger · **Posted:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:17 pm

we need that little smiley where the little dude is smacking himself in the head DOH!

Thanks guys.

LanduytG · **Joined:** Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:59 am **Posts:** 188

OK, I just talked with my machine shop and they will be getting the parts back from the brouch tomorrow or WED. That means the fuel filter conversion should be ready in about a week to ship.

greg

skywarn · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:25 pm

jeger -

i thought you were running Bio??

B-100 does not have any water in it. Thus no need for a water sep in the filter...

Jeger · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:27 pm

skywarn wrote:

jeger -

i thought you were running Bio??

B-100 does not have any water in it. Thus no need for a water sep in the filter...

Nope not me, its in the works though.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:31 pm

skywarn wrote:

jeger -

i thought you were running Bio??

B-100 does not have any water in it. Thus no need for a water sep in the filter...

Who told you B-100 has NO WATER in it? It will depend on the source, washing method, drying method ect. Way to many factors to make a blanket statement like that ...

skywarn · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:43 pm

DarbyWalters wrote:

Who told you B-100 has NO WATER in it? It will depend on the source, washing method, drying method ect. Way to many factors to make a blanket statement like that ...

You got on that one!

If your making your own B-100 there is no water in it. Even if you use water to wash it there shouldnt be and left in the end product. if there is then the batch should not be done and you need to do more drying.

For those who do not know about the water issue here is the VERY brief ex:

being that petro and water do not mix, it is "ok" for water to collect on the bottom of the diesel tanks at gas stations. (most pumps suck the fuel from the middle of the tank) however, going back to the post "does it matter where you get your fuel" again the answer is yes, know when "your"station get a load of fuel, give it at least 24 hours before filling up due to the water being mixed up from the tanks being filled up. after working with Jet fuel for 15 years (which is Diesel) with a 50k tank we could have up to 1000 gal of water in the tank at any given time, However, we could not use that tank to fill a Jet with in 24 hours of getting a "load" of fuel.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:18 pm

skywarn wrote:

jeger -

i thought you were running Bio??

B-100 does not have any water in it. Thus no need for a water sep in the filter...

When running biofuel you are probably MORE likely to get water contamination then with D2 from the local fueling station, and then there is the bio growth from bacteria to content with if you are not biociding properly.

Ripster · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:24 pm

I am waiting Greg, you might want to start a new thread when you have them
ready and refer to this one for questions.

valkraider · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:41 am

oldnavy wrote:

and then there is the bio growth from bacteria to content with if you are not biociding properly.

Hehe, if you were to look back through historical posts you would see that OldNavy and I , while we agree on many things, definitely disagree on this.

I have been using biodiesel for 4 years now, with over 80,000 miles on two vehicles. I have been active in the biodiesel industry in the Portland area for over two years. I know many people actively using biodiesel in their daily drivers.

And Portland is a very wet place.

I have never seen one occurrence of "growth" in biodiesel.

Not saying that it doesn't happen, just not that I have seen and I don't think it is a HUGE issue.

Your mileage may vary.

Just remember, that fuel biocides are REALLY NASTY stuffs. As in they are REALLY bad for the environment, both if spilled and when burned.

I say research the biofuels in your neck of the woods before you start using biocides.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:08 pm

valkraider wrote:

I say research the biofuels in your neck of the woods before you start using biocides.

And there's the old saying an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. The nasties can grow in regular dino as well as bio if there's sufficient water present, and the distribution chain in your area hasn't taken adequate quality control measures to prevent water contamination and critter growth.

Having my fuel system flushed after getting a tank of crappy fuel cost me close to $300 out of pocket. A 16 ounce bottle of biocide costs me $15 at West Marine. Cheap insurance in my book.

If critter growth in diesel fuel wasn't at least a potential problem, why would they even bother selling biocides to begin with?

greiswig · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:17 pm

retmil46 wrote:

valkraider wrote:

I say research the biofuels in your neck of the woods before you start using biocides.

And there's the old saying an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. The nasties can grow in regular dino as well as bio if there's sufficient water present, and the distribution chain in your area hasn't taken adequate quality control measures to prevent water contamination and critter growth.

Having my fuel system flushed after getting a tank of crappy fuel cost me close to $300 out of pocket. A 16 ounce bottle of biocide costs me $15 at West Marine. Cheap insurance in my book.

If critter growth in diesel fuel wasn't at least a potential problem, why would they even bother selling biocides to begin with?

I think valkraider's point was partly that biodiesel isn't any more prone to it than petrodiesel, and I would only add that the fact that most homebrewers have short storage times and often dewater their finished product by heating it up means that their biodiesel may be actually less prone to bacterial and fungal problems.

As you suggest, Retmil, there's a reason for these products. The mere fact that biodiesel is in use is not one of them, though.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:47 pm

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthre ... ost3616461

Check this out fellers. My posts are on this page about air in the fuel head.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:10 pm

BVCRD wrote:

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3616461&posted=1#post3616461

Check this out fellers. My posts are on this page about air in the fuel head.

Yeah, and I noticed the absolutely moronic response by the "engineers".

"15 ppm sulfur diesel is a better grade fuel and should help with this problem".

What in God's name does the sulfur content or the quality of fuel have to do with air leaks/buildup in the fuel system and melted fuel heaters?

But then, reading thru a few pages of that Q&A session, there favorite response was "We can't discuss that" or "We can't discuss future product". Even when one guy pointed out that their advertising dept already had flyers out to the dealers listing the specs on one vehicle, they still refused to give any answers. Even when one guy asked if they could just start putting a filter on the HVAC system to keep dirt out of the cabin, "We can't discuss future product".

Didn't sound like any engineers I'm used to dealing with, more like what I'd get from some marketing hack at the dealer, making up BS answers as they went along.

valkraider · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:03 pm

retmil46 wrote:

If critter growth in diesel fuel wasn't at least a potential problem, why would they even bother selling biocides to begin with?

Are you serious?

"Snake oil" salesmen must love you.

But there *is* a reason why they are most easily found at places like "West Marine". Because fuel tanks on boats are very susceptible. Lets see, a very large tank that is in an extremely wet environment and is not cycled regularly. Yep, seems like a good case for it.

But in a car that is run regularly you have pretty slim odds of having a growth problem.

Bad fuel requiring a fuel system flush could happen for hundreds of reasons other than algae growth...

But just because you can buy something doesn't mean it is a useful product.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:44 pm

valkraider wrote:

retmil46 wrote:

If critter growth in diesel fuel wasn't at least a potential problem, why would they even bother selling biocides to begin with?

Are you serious?

"Snake oil" salesmen must love you.

But there *is* a reason why they are most easily found at places like "West Marine". Because fuel tanks on boats are very susceptible. Lets see, a very large tank that is in an extremely wet environment and is not cycled regularly. Yep, seems like a good case for it.

But in a car that is run regularly you have pretty slim odds of having a growth problem.

Bad fuel requiring a fuel system flush could happen for hundreds of reasons other than algae growth...

But just because you can buy something doesn't mean it is a useful product.

I have seen personally about 9 or 10 cars over the last 1/2 dozen that had been brought to a standstill by "bio growth" in the vehicle. Worse case I ever say was a guy who had been running B100 from home brew and when the strainer/sending unit was pulled out from that VW you could not tell what the guy had in his hand. I just biocided my 91 MB diesel yesterday and I already had to replace the main filter today and 3 prefilters. I remember a couple years ago at one of my VW diesel GTG's a guy talked me into letting him try some of my PS biocide after just changing a fuel filter (his first time to do it hisself instead of dealer) and before he got 1/2 back home to KC he had to do a fuel filter replacement on the road. Lucky he had bought a couple extra filters and leared how to do the job here. Now if you buy quality diesel or biodiesel from someone who biocides their tanks on reguler basis then you should/will never have a problem.

Just remember the saying we had in the USN, "It only takes one ah stinky poo to wipe out a whole year of atta boys." :wink:

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

Yeah, and I noticed the absolutely moronic response by the "engineers".

"15 ppm sulfur diesel is a better grade fuel and should help with this problem".

What in God's name does the sulfur content or the quality of fuel have to do with air leaks/buildup in the fuel system and melted fuel heaters?

Did you see that one about "We didnt' see that in our tests" in response to the leaking fuel head heater sockets? It didn't happen in the Jeep batcave, ergo, it must not be a problem...very slick responses, avoid direct answers admitting any culpability, spray some "engineering data" straight from the sales brochures and call it a day. Throw a curveball of close but completely unrelated facts to fill air time and look for the nearest exit, jump in the old compass and get out of dodge...if pinned down on specifics, change the subject... ring any bells?

After working for nearly 3 decades in some large engineering departments, I remember one basic fact about engineers - they are a marketing disaster when speaking in public, for the most part. They can't keep their foot out of their mouths, because they respond with facts, even when it admits bad design, shoddy builds and poor quality. Only the most experienced engineering managers, i.e., the most politically motivated, with large bonuses on the line, are allowed to speak with live customers.

If that "engineer" designs jeep product, that would go a long way toward explaining Chrysler's current situation.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:58 am

valkraider wrote:

Are you serious?

"Snake oil" salesmen must love you.

Sarcasm does nothing to support your point of view.

If you live in an area of the country blessed with good quality fuel, and a distribution network that does take pains to make sure it remains that way (ie, trying to eliminate water contamination and treating it for microbial growth long before you buy it at the pump), such that you've never had the need to use any type of biocide, then good for you.

However, in MY area of the country, fuel quality even amongst stations of the same brand can often be a chancy affair, what with the overlapping territories of at least 3 different competing distribution networks, and Ranger1 has attested to this as well.

I've seen cases of critter mung in everything from farm equipment to the heavy equipment my father used to operate and, yes, in POV's as well, in this area. Since installing my dual filter setup after my initial problems with bad fuel, I've had at least 3 tanks of fuel that showed ample evidence of microbe contamination along with water and general trash. All 3 tanks were from stations in my local area, all ULSD. What came draining out of the prefilter looked more like pea green soup (paging Linda Blair), with a disconcerting amount of water, dirt, and plenty of black specks from critters that had been killed off by the biocide I regularly add.

farmboss · **Joined:** Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:09 pm **Posts:** 2

You know I've never had problem with anything growing in our fuel.I usually get 2 to 3k gals. at a time+sometimes it will set all winter.I've been doing this for almost 30 yrs.I'm not real picky where I get it,just who is cheapest!

Who Wants A Better Fuel Filter Thats Cheaper To Replace?

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