Trans-a-bye-bye

kjblack04 · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2007 7:21 pm

Well, it finally happened. 96,681 miles and my transmission kicked the bucket... and then it died. Had it towed to a local shop (whom I have had good experiences with in the past) and the mechanic told me this: "A buncha crud built up in your tranny. Probly getting trapped in the converter." Then he showed me a scan he did of the trouble codes for my check engine light. 7 seperate codes for the trans. 3 relating to the torque converter, other 4 relating to some sort of shift/slip error. He told me that my best bet was to have it replaced with a remanufactured Jasper trans. I have one in my F-250 work truck and it works very well over the stock trans. He also said that he was going to install an auxilliary trans cooler. He said it would get rid of the problem with the "crud buildup". So now I'm looking at $3k total price and I'm worried that the same "crud buildup" will just happen again. Does ANYONE know if the auxilliary/external cooler will really solve the problem? ANYONE ever had a similar experience? ANY HELP AT ALL WOULD BE VERY GREATLY APPRECIATED!!

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2007 7:47 pm

Did you have the fluid changed regularly and, more importantly, did you use the correct MOPAR ATF+4 transmission fluid when you did the change?

Aux Trans coolers keep the fluid temperatures closer to the proper temperatures and can help extend the life of a transmission. But I'm more currious as to what the "crud" looks like.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2007 8:03 pm

Im curious to know how often the fluid was changed also. Your Jeep should already have an aux cooler which makes me wonder why he said he will put one on it.

Did you tow with it any?

100k it alittle early for a tranny to need replaced.. I would like to make it to 150k at least.. Maybe that shift kit and Amsoil will help some..

kjblack04 · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2007 8:09 pm

I had the trans fluid and filter both replaced at about 50k miles at the Jeep dealership. The mechanic said something along the lines of "metal shavings" which I assume was the "crud" he reffered to. I did notice occasional excessive slippage not too long before it died. The tranny had been performing very sloppily since about 35k miles and the trans service at the dealership seemed to help for a couple thousand miles, but after a while it went back to being sloppy. I had always heard that Chrysler tranny's were junk, so I didn't think much of the sloppy performance. Could I have avoided this by regularly servicing the trans? BTW, what is the regular service interval for a trans that see's everyday driving (i.e. 25% city, 75% highway) and light off-road use 2-3 times per year?

kjblack04 · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2007 8:12 pm

P.S.- no towing, just regular driving. I admit there's a little Pb in my right foot... :lol:

I do not have the Tow package on my Libby, so I kinda assumed that I had no trans cooling device... or really any optional cooling devices for anything, although I've never investigated. It's an '04 Sport V6. And I'm definately considering the TransGo Shift kit now!

Skyjump136 · **Joined:** Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:50 pm **Posts:** 1633

kjblack04 wrote:

I had the trans fluid and filter both replaced at about 50k miles at the Jeep dealership. The mechanic said something along the lines of "metal shavings" which I assume was the "crud" he reffered to. I did notice occasional excessive slippage not too long before it died. The tranny had been performing very sloppily since about 35k miles and the trans service at the dealership seemed to help for a couple thousand miles, but after a while it went back to being sloppy. I had always heard that Chrysler tranny's were junk, so I didn't think much of the sloppy performance. Could I have avoided this by regularly servicing the trans? BTW, what is the regular service interval for a trans that see's everyday driving (i.e. 25% city, 75% highway) and light off-road use 2-3 times per year?

I have 50,000 miles on mine right now and I have already had the tranny serviced three times. I believe the manual says you should service every 30,000 so 50k was definitely excessive. Essentially you're saying you serviced the tranny one time over a period of 100,000 miles?!? Yikes...

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2007 8:33 pm

I've had mine flushed(with 1 filter(s) change) and I have 51,000 miles,next flush with filter(s) change is in 9000 miles.I have the in raditor cooler and a 26,000lbs gvwr aux tranny cooler,but then again I have the 45RFE

!50,000 mile filter changes on today's newer all electronic controled trannies is about asking it not to last,there tolerances are closer and and run hotter thus breaking down the ATF faster,synthetic or not.

Neatus · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2007 10:22 pm

Kind of off topic but still kind of on.

I don't really think I should be proud of this but I put 167,000 miles on my Saturn SL2 and never once serviced the tranny, just checked that it always had fluid.....trans finally had it at 167k and some change...won't ever do that again though.

Back on topic.

Quote:

Your Jeep should already have an aux cooler which makes me wonder why he said he will put one on it.

Not all KJs came with the trans cooler for the 03 and 04 model years.....it was and option and also came with certain packages such as the tow package or off road package.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2007 10:39 pm

Ill admit that getting it serviced once in 100k is alittle lacking on the service, but I personally believe it should of lasted longer than that.

Ill drop the pan at 30k and again at 60k and add Amsoil with a Filter change. Im hoping that the shift kit will take some of the slop away and firm up the shifts. I like to believe Im very easy on the tranny myself. I always hold it in a gear when going up hills and do NOT let it shift back and forth. I personally believe that is what kills a tranny.

A tranny cooler was standard on the 2004 libertys. Mine did NOT have the offroad or the tow pack and I have the bigger shroud and the Tranny cooler. Only thing I do not have is the engine driven fan and power steering cooler.

JohnnyCash · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2007 10:57 pm

The one thing I would love to have is a Tranny Temperature Gauge.
You would be able to see what driving conditions cause it to heat up and be able to adjust.
Also if you're fluid is getting bad and not cooling as good as it should you would be able to see the temperature change.
Uh-Oh.......gotta go........new Victoria's Secret commercial is on !!! :shock:

myjeepwalks · **Posted:** Fri May 04, 2007 11:26 pm

The reason he's recommending the aux cooler is because the current one had all the junk ran through it when the trans took a dump. You can't be 100% sure all the metal is flushed out of the current one. Most manufacturers require you to replace the cooler for them to warranty the trans. I know i wouldn't spend $2500 on a trans and risk tearing it from some metal shavings still stuck in current cooler then the manufacturer says sorry no warranty since the cooler wasn't replaced. :cry:

The only way to keep the so called crud from building up is change the fluid and filter(s) every 30k.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sat May 05, 2007 3:33 am

HEAT is what destroys the transmission. I really have to question whether the Mopar ATF+4 Trany Fluid is a quality extended long interval oil. The JEEP Service Manger told me that he wouldn’t recommend prolonging transmission oil changes any further than 30,000 using the MOPAR ATF+4. I HIGHLY recommend using the AMSOIL ATF and a TRANSMISSION COOLER, such as the Hayden or B&M. I had 247,000 on my Tahoe using Amsoil and the trany was still going strong when I sold it. You might want to consider a deeper transmission pan and Transgo Shift Kit as well. Hayden, who makes the transmission cooler says, "With each 20 degree drop in operating temperature, your oil and equipment life doubles. By reducing your transmission oil temperature as much as 60 degrees, a Hayden transmission oil cooler can greatly extend the life of your transmission."

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Sat May 05, 2007 11:02 am

Wonder if the stock cooler is capable of keeping the tranny cool enough? Ive heard of people having the tranny light come on when offroad but I dont know if they were letting the tranny shift alot or what. There are so many variables when it comes to things like that.

kjblack04 · **Posted:** Sat May 05, 2007 11:33 am

Well, I'll definately take everyone's responses into consideration when further discussing the options with my mechanic. Thank you all so much for your help and input; you guys are what make this such a great forum!

jcphoto20 · **Joined:** Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:36 am **Posts:** 507

the biggest killer of a transmission for a liberty should be the way it builds heat as the torque converter is almost always slipping ALOT except for highway speeds. they apparently designed it for people seeking a bit more low end power so they engineered some full-time fake power with the multiplication ratio of the torque converter.

if you leave O/D on (no experience with 5 speed versions and their 2 O/Ds, im sure they are no improvement) then the engine pretty much never drops below 2100 rpm ever when on the gas at all.

if you turn O/D off, mine can lock up at like 32 mph in 3rd and you can tool around under throttle with reasonable acceleration as low as 1300-1400.

many people speak of getting a converter with higher slip, like 2500-2700, and they like the result for their type of driving. if i were to invest in an aftermarket converter, i would have them make me one that stalls at 1600 or so. and that would suit my driving style and the higher low end power mine is tuned for.

a trick i noticed was that if you have O/D off and the torque converter is locked in 3rd and you turn O/D on,
sometimes, it will shift into O/D with the converter staying locked. then you can cruise at slower than the usual O/D lock up of 61 (in a 4 speed, 3.73s) at much lower rpm.

all of this low rpm yacking will no doubt result in lower fluid temperatures and longer transmission life

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat May 05, 2007 8:25 pm

Ummmm,the TC only locks in O/D.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Sat May 05, 2007 10:12 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

Ummmm,the TC only locks in O/D.

If you push the button on the side of the gear shift, it will lock in 3rd gear also. Im fairly sure that it locks at a lower speed also.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat May 05, 2007 10:28 pm

Jeepjeepster wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

Ummmm,the TC only locks in O/D.

If you push the button on the side of the gear shift, it will lock in 3rd gear also. Im fairly sure that it locks at a lower speed also.

Well the 42RLE's may be different then,mine only locks in OD.I never use the OD lockout switch unless I'm towing and I certinally don't want the TC locking up pulling a load.The TC may lockup in 3rd if cruizing at a steady speed on flat ground but I'm never in 3rd unless pulling a trailer so it doesn't matter to me.Get's better mpg's in OD then locking OD out(again unless towing) anyway.My TC locks up at 35mph in OD if on flat land also.

Quote:

Wonder if the stock cooler is capable of keeping the tranny cool enough? Ive heard of people having the tranny light come on when offroad but I dont know if they were letting the tranny shift alot or what. There are so many variables when it comes to things like that.

We've had some of our members tranny lights come on even before the trails and they have HD cooling but the 42RLE's to.On long road trips I sometimes use my infared heat gun to get the tranny pan temp,always under 170 degrees(+/- 10 degrees for taking the pan temp and not the fluid) even when I was towing 4000 lbs through the mountains.Having a AUX tranny cooler(not OEM) does help keep the tranny temps down.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Sat May 05, 2007 10:41 pm

Just wondering tjkj, why would you not want it to lock in 3rd when towing?

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat May 05, 2007 11:14 pm

Jeepjeepster wrote:

Just wondering tjkj, why would you not want it to lock in 3rd when towing?

When the TC locks up you are bassically eliminating the TC from the tranny,the stator inside the tranny gets locked to the TC housing thus no slipping in the TC.Unloaded and on flat ground this will help with mpg's but you loose some power due to the lost torque mulitiplcation the "slipping" stator in the TC is providing(also heat,thus a bigger tranny cooler) and you also loose the "shock" absober in the driveline(the TC) which can grenade a tranny real quick.That's why you can't push start a auto(at least the new one's with only 1 pump) because the stator is just free wheeling in the TC and not turning the crankshaft,if your TC was locked all the time you could push start a auto but would break the tranny internals pretty fast.

Trans-a-bye-bye

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