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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:52 am 
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chadhargis wrote:

The funny thing about petro diesel is it's a byproduct of making gasoline. It should be free. :)


This one question has been bugging me for years.... from what i have learned (but dont agree with) is the cost comes from the removal of sulfer....

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:09 pm 
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So it should have been free before 2006? LOL! :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:27 pm 
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BiodieselJeep.com wrote:
chadhargis wrote:
The sad thing is, oil companies keep making record profits as we all stand by and watch. Not much we can do about it I guess. :?


Dare I say it: Biodiesel?


Is that another cue for Reflex to chime in about the evils of Biodiesel? :roll:

Actually, I've just about lost count of the number of ways they've tested now to make either bio (organic source) or synthetic (nonorganic source) diesel.

BTL - Biomass to Liquid - Tested by DC of all people :shock: , the diesel equivalent of celluosic ethanol. For the test plant, they used dead windfall trees and other scrap biomass to produce a high grade biodiesel. Had all the same advantages of normal biodiesel, plus the NOX emissions were a fraction of normal biodiesel.

GTL - Gas to Liquid - Converts natural gas into synthetic diesel. A couple of Middle East countries are building sizeable plants to do this, basically because it's a lot easier and cheaper to transport diesel fuel than LNG. From reading the specs, this stuff comes out at over 70 cetane. At work, we were able to access a weblink where Daimler ran a test engine on this stuff. They were able to lower the compression ratio down to 15:1 (almost gas engine territory) and using specially designed injectors, the engine ran so clean that it would have met current emissions specs WITHOUT any type of emissions control hardware.

From what I've read, this process can be downsized to the point that the processing plant can be made portable, such that it's now economically feasible to recover smaller natural gas fields and pockets, that previously wouldn't justify the expense of building a pipeline or LNG facility. Bring in the portable plant, convert the natural gas to diesel, load it in a tanker truck, and send it to market.

CTL - Coal to Liquid - Basically the same process Germany used to fuel it's military in WWII, updated with current technology. A few months back, the governors of Montana and one other western state were in the news. They had been working with a German company, researching the feasibility of setting up such plants in their states. With the updated process, they estimated they could produce synthetic diesel for the equivalent price of producing it from oil at $35/barrel, with many of the same advantages of the GTL synthetic diesel listed above.

But for now, guess we're stuck with buying what comes out of the pump. Right now, ULSD and RUG are dead even at 2.89 at the closest station.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:39 pm 
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I'm still paying $2.79. :D

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:48 pm 
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BiodieselJeep.com wrote:
chadhargis wrote:
The sad thing is, oil companies keep making record profits as we all stand by and watch. Not much we can do about it I guess. :?


Dare I say it: Biodiesel?

Depends on who you think the oil companies are. After all, the 'oil companies' that we see at the pump are making their money on distribution, not production for the most part. Since they own the distribution network, whether the original oil is from the ground or bio in nature is basically irrelevant.

retmil - My point is not that biofuels are inherantly bad. It is that as they are produced today they are far more harm than help. Future production via other methods(cellulose based ethanol, algae based BD) probably will change that equation, but they are not here today, and current BD production only exacerbates our issues and increases our reliance on foreign oil.

But we've had this discussion, and people believe whatever it is most convienient for them to believe, regardless of the facts.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:50 pm 
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$2.59 whazzzz up!

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 2:14 pm 
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chadhargis wrote:
So it should have been free before 2006? LOL! :roll:


Lest ye forget that last year (pre ULSD), it was called LSD (no, not that one...) so it sounds like refineries were STILL removing a good portion of it before sale.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 2:30 pm 
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Ah...well, there's my ignorance of diesel showing. LOL! :)

I've only had a diesel vehicle for about a month.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 2:47 pm 
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chadhargis wrote:
Ah...well, there's my ignorance of diesel showing. LOL! :)

I've only had a diesel vehicle for about a month.


No Sweat, I'm only a year into it and by no means an authority :lol: ...Just making an observation of the names writtten on the fuel pumps.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 2:15 am 
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BiodieselJeep.com wrote:
chadhargis wrote:
The sad thing is, oil companies keep making record profits as we all stand by and watch. Not much we can do about it I guess. :?


Dare I say it: Biodiesel?


Bio at the same place is $4.90 a gallon. I put 20L of 100oct gas in the race car and it was $7.16 a gallon.

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 Post subject: Prices of fuel
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:36 am 
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jinstall, How much of the price is tax per gallon?

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:31 am 
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Today in Tulsa Unleaded is mostly 2.99, Diesel as low as 2.59.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:37 am 
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Regular unleaded is $2.869 and diesel (ULSD) is $2.699 at the Hess on US 13 in New Castle, DE. Diesel seems to be at least 10 cents lower than regular in most places around here, some places the diesel price is the same as regular.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:18 am 
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in todays news....

Dallas/Ft Worth is talking about dropping the $.20 tax per gallon on fuel for the "busy" driving season.. it would use 500 million from the Texas surplus of 15 billion to cover the price diff. However, at the end of the summer, the .20 tax would be added back thus causing fuel prices to jump over night....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:52 am 
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I'm in the process of getting involved with a local coop that orders 1000 gallons of biodiesel at a time. I'm hoping I'll know more soon. The only issue is the company they get the biodiesel from won't dispense into anything smaller than a 250 gallon container. 250 gallons would last me about 5 months. I'm not sure I need that much. Hopefully I can find someone else in my position who will split a container with me.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:01 pm 
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Still able to get diesel at $2.81 at a local Hess station. Regular is $2.95.

Closer to the city (only 15 miles away) regular is $3.05 and diesel is $3.29 at a shell station.

Gas companies are still playing games on diesel if the traffic will bear the extra cost.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 5:29 pm 
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Bought Priemum ULSD (47 Cetane) Amoco today for $2.679, RUG is $2.779 same station. :D

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 12:25 am 
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diesel: $3.09 87 gas: $3.59

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 12:55 am 
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jcphoto20 wrote:
diesel: $3.09 87 gas: $3.59
Noticed your 20 and 25 mpg in your sig and had a good laugh, but I guess 25 mpg would be possible if you drove 60/65 MPH range on the highway, but then our CRD at those speeds would be 32/33 MPG maybe a tad more or about 30% better mileage. 8)

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:35 am 
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oldnavy wrote:
jcphoto20 wrote:
diesel: $3.09 87 gas: $3.59
Noticed your 20 and 25 mpg in your sig and had a good laugh, but I guess 25 mpg would be possible if you drove 60/65 MPH range on the highway, but then our CRD at those speeds would be 32/33 MPG maybe a tad more or about 30% better mileage. 8)

I have been getting over 30mpg the last 3 tanks. I am filling to the very top each time (until it cannot take anymore fuel and it is at the top of the filler neck and stays there). I got 32.6mpg, 30.8, and 31.7 in that order. The highest was 100% highway and through mountains, the 2nd was 90% highway and I was feathering the throttle, the same witht he 3rd one. If I do a lot of stop and go and I make fast accelerations, I get around 25 or so. I am super pleased with that mileage as I suspected I would only get 20-22 at best from what i've read. It seems to like the Hess diesel fuel, which is great because it is the cheapest around! :D

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