What if Honda made a Jeep?

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 7:38 am

I drive my Dodge Cummins when I want to pull a house off it’s foundation, :shock:

or I drive a Jeep when I want to get far off the beaten path and seek some solitude.

Both vehicles serve a great purpose, both can out perform any Honda or Toyota for that matter. I’ve always been a Chevy man, but GM doesn’t make a JEEP nor do they put a Cummins in their trucks. So I’m now a true DCX man.

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 7:39 am

Buy that man a round (when someone see's him!)

Video Guy · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 10:45 am

I'd be surprised if Honda isn't already at work on an offroad-capable compact SUV to compete with the FJ and KJ that are selling like crazy. They're probably studying what works and what doesn't, both from a marketing and engineering perspective. If Honda gave it their best shot and focused on durability and offroad functionality, they could be a contender, IMO.

There's a $25k-$35k sweet spot in the market. I imagine a good first stab might be born from an Element on a shortened Ridgeline platform. Have you noticed how very little vehicle extendes beyond the front and rear wheels? 31-32" tires and taller suspension would give that vehicle nice approach and departure angles. The 101" wheelbase would allow for a good breakover angle too. I envision:

* Solid rear axle
* Flat, removable top with internal roll cage
* Ditch the "clamshell" tailgate for a swinging tailgate
* Replace funky-shaped side windows with rectangular ones for greater visibility
* Move tail lights up out of harm's way
* Keep existing Element front-end design, but with a taller quarter panel -- might resemble a Hummer H2
* Electronic swaybar disconnect and lockers (on deluxe trim, or as option)

Looks good with a brush guard:

I wouldn't rule it out.

Guest · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 11:02 am

Honda making a jeep! come on! I mean, next you'll be saying "what if Mercedes made a Jeep?"...

OH, WAIT.... :twisted:

I really don't care who makes it, as long as it is. Jeep has traded hands several times & it probably will again.

By the way, Honda parts are not hard to come by, unless you live in an area that doesn't have many Hondas. That's just the market. Honda, Toyota, BMW & I'm sure most other "foreign" car companies have American engineers, as if that were key... The guy working the Nissan line in Smyrna, TN spends his money here too. Profits go to Germany or Japan is just an old protectionist argument, that only looks at one tiny slice of the whole pie. If 75% of a Honda is American made, then profits are going to the American companies that made 75% of the Honda. But even the profits that do go overseas, most come back to the US in the form of investments. The last I heard the most American car in the world was the Toyota Camry, it has the highest percentage of US sourced parts, It's built here, designed here, etc.

Any company can build a great Jeep, IF they understand what makes it a Jeep & remain committed to that philosophy. Personally, I think I'd rather see BMW buying the Jeep name. They understand things like niche markets, cult followings, & philosophy in design. Not to mention the sweet engines!

Oh, & if no one has noticed, the next time you open your hood, check out the ID tag on your alternator... mine says Denso... made by Japan baby! :wink:

chefdab · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 11:24 am

Honda will never make a Jeep or anything worthy of it's competition. At least competition for a Wrangler. Because part of what makes them Hondas in the first place is the fully independent suspension. Every vehicle they make is both IFS and IRS. So unless you want your Heep to not be able to get over any obstacle larger than a parking lot curb, you don't want Honda building it. I really do think that Jeep is the only thing keeping Chrysler afloat these days and it would be stupid to let their cash cow go. If any car company bought Jeep it would still be a part of Chrysler as a package deal. They won't sell off Jeep by itself. I also hope GM never buys it because then you will see cookie cutter clones popping up in all their divisions rebadged as Cadillacs, Pontiacs, Chevys, Saturns, Buicks, etc. Then Jeep would no longer be the (barely) unique vehicle it is today.

Guest · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 12:07 pm

chefdab wrote:

Because part of what makes them Hondas in the first place is the fully independent suspension. Every vehicle they make is both IFS and IRS. So unless you want your Heep to not be able to get over any obstacle larger than a parking lot curb, you don't want Honda building it.

Yeah, IFS/IRS is weak :twisted:

http://www.amgeneral.com/photo_gallery.php/page/6/pID/77
http://www.amgeneral.com/photo_gallery.php/page/7/pID/27
http://www.amgeneral.com/photo_gallery.php/page/4/pID/64

priell3 · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 12:07 pm

If Honda made Jeeps, they would have those really ugly headlights typical of most Asian imports.

LiLredLibby · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 12:18 pm

Video Guy wrote:

I'd be surprised if Honda isn't already at work on an offroad-capable compact SUV to compete with the FJ and KJ that are selling like crazy. They're probably studying what works and what doesn't, both from a marketing and engineering perspective. If Honda gave it their best shot and focused on durability and offroad functionality, they could be a contender, IMO.

There's a $25k-$35k sweet spot in the market. I imagine a good first stab might be born from an Element on a shortened Ridgeline platform. Have you noticed how very little vehicle extendes beyond the front and rear wheels? 31-32" tires and taller suspension would give that vehicle nice approach and departure angles. The 101" wheelbase would allow for a good breakover angle too. I envision:

* Solid rear axle
* Flat, removable top with internal roll cage
* Ditch the "clamshell" tailgate for a swinging tailgate
* Replace funky-shaped side windows with rectangular ones for greater visibility
* Move tail lights up out of harm's way
* Keep existing Element front-end design, but with a taller quarter panel -- might resemble a Hummer H2
* Electronic swaybar disconnect and lockers (on deluxe trim, or as option)

Looks good with a brush guard:

I wouldn't rule it out.

It would scare me to buy an offroad vehicle from anyone who can't even remember to paint their fenders. :lol:

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 12:22 pm

If the money's right - they'd sell Jeep seperate from Chrysler
Jeep still has a percentage of sales to people who never considered any other vehicle
I don't know of many companies who have that kind of image and loyality

(FYI - Honda makes a really nice Civic SI )

jcphoto20 · **Joined:** Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:36 am **Posts:** 507

[quote="priell3"]If Honda made Jeeps, they would have those really ugly headlights typical of most Asian imports.[/quote]

yea, EXACTLY like the ones on the 2008 "Liberty"

unixxx · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 3:00 pm

Solid axle vehicles will always be better for the majority of off-roading because they flex very well. Independent suspension vehicles will always be better for desert and dune racing because they're more stable. The Hummer H1 is actually much better than other IFS vehicles because the half-shafts enter the top of individual gear boxes at the wheels.

KJpilot wrote:

Yeah, IFS/IRS is weak :twisted:

http://www.amgeneral.com/photo_gallery.php/page/6/pID/77
http://www.amgeneral.com/photo_gallery.php/page/7/pID/27
http://www.amgeneral.com/photo_gallery.php/page/4/pID/64

Guest · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 3:08 pm

unixxx wrote:

Solid axle vehicles will always be better for the majority of off-roading because they flex very well. Independent suspension vehicles will always be better for desert and dune racing because they're more stable. The Hummer H1 IFS is actually much better than others because the half-shafts enter the top of individual gear boxes at the wheels.

KJpilot wrote:

Yeah, IFS/IRS is weak :twisted:

http://www.amgeneral.com/photo_gallery.php/page/6/pID/77
http://www.amgeneral.com/photo_gallery.php/page/7/pID/27
http://www.amgeneral.com/photo_gallery.php/page/4/pID/64

SOOO, If it's well designed, Independent suspension is quite capable.... Don't forget the Humvee was designed as a Cold War replacement for the Jeep. It was designed with non-desert Eurasian terrain in mind. In a nut shell, that IRS will kick your SRS into next week!

unixxx · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 3:15 pm

Check out this article:

http://www.stunkworks.com/jeep/ifsvssolid.html

Guest · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 3:33 pm

The writer only draws us a hypothetical as to what he thinks a H1 would do in this situation. "Let's Consider..." is not the same as "In this experiment, we see..."
His imaginary H1 example seems full of holes, If it is based on experience, photos illustrating his argument would be nice.

Solid axles have advantages, they are cheap, durable, & easy to modify. All excellent advantages. however one cannot say that an off road vehicle with full independent suspension is worthless, for all but curb climbing. That is all that a CRV is good for, but that was the market for which it was designed. Any automaker, including Honda, who would look at the serious off road market & decide to jump in, would investigate & make a quality product.

Look at the FJ. They embraced the off-road aftermarket during the design process. The thing has only been out for a few months & you can do more with a FJ than a KJ that's been around for 5 years!

unixxx · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 3:44 pm

The H1 only has independent suspension for stability and clearance. A solid axle vehicle with the same clearance would require larger tires and thus a larger axle. The larger tires, larger axle, and solid axle center section would add more unsprung weight and reduce stability. Here's another explanation and some pictures:

http://skidplate4x4.tripod.com/FAQ.html#anchor306198

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 4:57 pm

H1's RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Been places and done things in H1's that would boggle your mind(and practically scared the s&^% out of me).IFS has it's place,it's by no means weak if built right.SFA is going to remain the king for awhile till a better IFS aftermarket comes around(like $500 for alloy axles for a SFA compared to $2000 for the same streangth CV axles).

unixxx · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 5:43 pm

I wish Chrysler had a Central Tire Inflation System for the Liberty :twisted:

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 5:47 pm

unixxx wrote:

I wish Chrysler had a Central Tire Inflation System for the Liberty :twisted:

No you don't,they are a nightmare to fix when they fail and upkeep is a pain.They are nice,don't get me wrong but alot more headaches then you ever will want to have.Keeping them working right for more than a week is a miracle,we where always coming outside to all the tires flat on CTIS rigs all the time.

USAFCOP · **Posted:** Fri May 11, 2007 2:08 am

I say all people on any Jeep Forum recreate AMC, and we all buy Jeep and have them built the way we want. But then we would have to buy our own country too, because one reason for all of the changes we complain about are traffic safety laws, and "green vehicle" laws. Sorry to play devil's advocate, but remember Jeeps are built not bought.

Rusty the Scoob · **Posted:** Fri May 11, 2007 7:21 am

Anybody here who's ever wheeled with a Suzuki Samurai knows that the vehicle's construction and design matter a lot more than the country of origin.

I could see Toyota building a great SWB CJ/Wrangler clone. Toyota has the background in offroading vehicles and currently makes great body-on-frame pickups. Honda's idea of a pickup, on the other hand, is the Ridgeline.

Both IFS & IRS and Unibody??? and the tailgate that opens both ways? They made a large car with a bed instead of a trunk and called it a truck. No way could they build something as primitive and sturdy as a TJ or even an XJ or KJ unless they got all new engineers.

What if Honda made a Jeep?

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