everyone who Chimed in.

Burchie · **Posted:** Sun May 20, 2007 12:48 am

Hello KJ West.

This is a follow up to the "Who's left? Chime in if you are still here." thread. Us Officers as a whole are getting a little discouraged with the turn outs we've been getting at events. BB was a great turn out, but the Toy Run was a bust this year. We've had a couple of meeting, with a very small turn out. What's up? We know everyone is busy with stuff, and that's cool. But we are starting to get nervous about the health of this club.

What do you want to do? What do you want us to do? Would you like to see some new stuff? Like what? We are open for ideas. If we can do something different, please let us know. Give it to us!!!!

This is your club too, and we want to make it the best jeep club in So.Cal.

fermill403 · **Posted:** Sun May 20, 2007 2:04 am

If you guys don't mind, It has been a matter of economics for me more than anything else. Times are getting kind of tough out there. I cant answer for anybody else out there, but I WORK for a living. The wife and I make the same money as we did 2 or 3 years ago, yet the prices on things have gone crazy. Gas was $1.29 when I bought my KJ. I have three children, and one on the way. I guess what I am trying to say is when it comes down to the real things in life, drivin through the dirt is not one of them.
Now my membership in kj west is very important to me. I have never been involved in any organization outside of church where people are so up beat and caring for their fellow members. I plan on being a part of kj west as long as I have a vehicle that will get me over the rocks. So don't count me out.
The bottom line for me. A great bunch of people, enjoying a great hobby, however it is not my be all end all for being. I might not be the only one...

jpzkj · **Posted:** Sun May 20, 2007 2:21 am

If you don't attend Moab or F.I.T.S there isn't alot going on otherwise . Two months of prep for Moab 2 weeks there and 1 month recovering....so there's almost 4 months outta the year that not much happens. The momentum seems to get lost in between. From Turkey Crawl to Moab (including Christmas) takes up some prime time for going where it's to hot to go in August.

More local trips...less of the same trips. Gas is a major issue for sure. 200 miles to the tank in my ZJ is starting to become a drag thats for sure.

There is less of a community feeling w/o the lift parties, maybe another type of gathering could take the place since All J's has moved and has insurance issues with them. (totally understandable on All J's part).

Anza's along way away but I've still not made it there and would like to.

Mojave Road is very cool and it's been along time since i've gone. Overnight camping was an issue for that one since there are no showers. (timing is everything becuase of the heat).

Death Valley is the same.

I think there are alot of trails and places to go...we just don't seem to get there.

Thats about all I can think of right now...but hope we can pull it together.

lilmatty · **Posted:** Sun May 20, 2007 9:02 am

Is the membership dropping or is it the just the attendance. SoCal is a large area and at $3+ a gallon makes for an expensive weekend just to go anywhere.

When I joined the club was a great place for KJ owners to band together against the nattering nabobs of KJ negativism. Now we go to any event and find as many non KJs as not. I'm as guilty as the rest of you guys on that issue.

But how many KJs did we have at Calico last year? Just didn't feel the same.

WE need to look at the reasons someone would join. The BB is free and for most has become that social KJ community that used to be LOST KJ West alone. The org has gone national. Has that fact left West in the dust? Dunno.

Heck I can't even get more than 3 at a time to NorCal events. I don't know why. We're a regional club in name only.

Starcrwzr · **Posted:** Sun May 20, 2007 6:57 pm

I joined KJ West, almost a year ago, and haven't attended a single event. Being a B&B owner/operator keeps me very busy on weekends. I knew this when I joined, but thought or hoped that there would be more events down in the Julian/Anza-Borrego area that I might be able to do on a weekend afternoon, after attending to guests. I guess I'm going to have to let my membership expire. Sorry.

Scott Baker
Mountain High Bed & Breakfast & Observatory
www.mountainhighbnb.com

dirtykj · **Posted:** Sun May 20, 2007 9:57 pm

Starcrwzr wrote:

more events down in the Julian/Anza-Borrego area that I might be able to do on a weekend afternoon, after attending to guests. I guess I'm going to have to let my membership expire. :cry:

Sorry.

It doesn't cost much to keep membership in this organization current.

Having trail runs in Anza is just a matter of organizing one. There's Sandiego Dave who I'm sure would be up to such run if given proper notice. He will be able to show you the very coolest fossilized footprints and trails that nobody outside of select few people even know about.

Also, you can try piggybacking with other clubs. There's the SoCal XTerra owner's group, for example.

If you're up to it, you can probably do the Fish Creek wash solo. It's not a difficult trail, and it's highly unlikely that you will break anything on this trail. It's a beautiful place to camp, anywhere inside Anza.

Or, you can go to Anza Hot Springs (Agua Caliente, link here) --- you'll love this place. Go there when it's not 110 degrees and you'll have a lovely time. There are two natural hot spring pools: one enclosed and one open to the elements. You can camp right next to the indoor pool and get up & go for a dip any time you want. The stars come out in abundance at night.

Good luck, and have fun.

dirtykj · **Posted:** Sun May 20, 2007 10:08 pm

jpzkj wrote:

Anza's along way away but I've still not made it there and would like to.

Mojave Road is very cool and it's been along time since i've gone. Overnight camping was an issue for that one since there are no showers. (timing is everything becuase of the heat).

Easily fixed: sun shower, portable toilet.

I know I don't live there any more and I probably let my membership lapse (well, given the circumstance ...), but may I suggest more frequent short trips to:

1. Overnight camping in Big Bear (1.5 hours away?)

2. Camping along the ocean in Los Padres NF? (first-come first-served campsite on bluff right next to ocean, go visit the beautiful McWay Cove tidefall while you're there) --- Julia Pfeiffer Burns SP.

3. Go for a day romp on the sand dunes in Oceano / Pismo? Camping there is wonderful, and hey, it's the only place you can drive on the beach in CA.

Try not to do this at Oceano, though:

LuckeyDuckey · **Posted:** Sun May 20, 2007 10:13 pm

We haven't done anything with the club since I think the Toy Run of 2005. I don't even know if we've gone off-roading since then. We were all packed for the DV run in late 2006 and it was cancelled at practically the 11th hour. I know it wasn't an official club run but that was sure a bummer.

Gas is expensive ($3.30) and we try to limit our Jeep usage in general.

We have participated in 2 trips to Anza that were not well attended (5 or less). The second trip we had to cut short due to a broken control arm. Several times us southern southern Californians have tried to spark some interest for runs down here from the northern southern Californians and there doesn't seem to be much interest.

Ntrgrl · **Posted:** Mon May 21, 2007 11:45 am

I guess I'm in the same boat as some others...

With Jeff's injury last year and forced retirement we are both adjusting to being a one-income family, he being home all the time, me working long hours during the week, and then gas prices... I guess what I'm trying to say is LIFE's been ruff the last year but things are getting better... wish we could say that about gas prices!

I'm looking forward to Big Bear... last year rocked! ( I love the trail that Ted led... nice and easy, relaxing and fun). The hangover crawl went well for the first part... the second part... well, I made it.

I'm still here... I'd like to do some more trails... I missed the toy run due to LIFE drama; but plan on attending this year.

Don't count me out yet

swanyo · **Posted:** Mon May 21, 2007 8:00 pm

I think if you can get 2 vehicles to show that is good enough for a trail ride. I have enjoyed some of the big events but I don't think that you need 10+ jeeps to make a success. I myself am not a hardcore off-road trail hound. I like to fish, camp, bike & hike and the KJ is just the vehicle I chose to get me where I need to go. I have learned alot from you guys and I will attend any ride that I'm available, but there are many other things that I am into.

I guess my expectations are little lower. Everytime I've shown up to a gathering I thought it was well supported.

Burchie · **Posted:** Tue May 22, 2007 9:30 pm

I want to thank all who have replied to this thread. We understand everyone has a bunch of stuff on their plate and we are not trying to point fingers at who has been on runs and who hasn't. We still want to here from you all. Any ideas, on what / where you want the club to go or do?

Keep the ideas coming.

CaKJFreedom · **Posted:** Wed May 23, 2007 11:10 am

I want you all to move closer to me. Does that count? :wink:

scoobybri · **Posted:** Wed May 23, 2007 12:23 pm

Inclusion of NV was nice but we're so far away it's going to be hard to get to any Cali events/runs. Gas to and from, let's say, Victorville + gas for the run + hotel room is upwards of $150-$200 for a one day trip. With that said, I don't mind spending the money for something like Big Bear where it's going to be a big multiday event. I've been trying to generate some interest here in Vegas by organizing some runs, but I've had only 1 Libby show up for each of the runs. I even posted the last run over at Vegas Valley 4 Wheelers(VV4W) to see if I could get some interest from non-Libby owners and had no one show up. It seems like if the run does not involve broken drive shafts and body damage, the local 4x4ers are not interested. There's about a billion Libertys on the road here in town, but very little interest in a Liberty club.

As was suggested before, maybe we could do a Vegas run during the winter. It's Vegas, so who wouldn't want to come up here for some wheeling, gambling, and fun? We could make it a multiday event so we could get alot of activities in with only one round trip worth of gas.

It does seem that, from my limited experience with KJ West, that there seems to be a big migration from those who owned Libertys to other Jeeps. This is probably due to the fact that a Liberty tends to be a stepping stone for those entering the world 'o Jeep. So it makes the "KJ" in "KJ West" mean mean less and less as time goes by. Granted, a club is only as good as its members, but I don't go to the local Miata club meeting and expect to see 10 Miatas, 10 S2000s, and 5 Soltices. All of those cars provide the same type of driving experience, but you'd have a roadster club for that group rather than a "Miata" club. Like lil matty said, the solidarity of everyone driving/wrenching on a particular model is a big part of any car club. But when you outgrow the Liberty, what can you do? (I can see myself buying a LJ in a few years....)

My problem here in Vegas is less what you drive as much as it is where you want to drive. The rock crawler crowd is well organized and attended. It's those of us that like the 1-3 level trails that have no home. I met a few people at a recent VV4W membership drive run that were at my "level" but I have not seen them since. I think the 3 hours we spent sitting on the trail waiting for rig repairs and lack of proper spotting scared them off. But again, I was the only Liberty on the run. Here in Vegas, the "Mall Rated" moniker rings very true.

Glad to see that you guys are trying to hold things together.

JJsTJ · **Posted:** Wed May 23, 2007 1:39 pm

We really only have a couple members that have moved to other Jeeps and one of those was due to rolling her KJ. KJ WEST has Always been about wheeling and getting together to have fun. We have never been an exclusive KJ club and never wanted to be. We have always had members with other vehicles and we have always looked to include others regardless of what they drive. This has been the best way to get others to see the KJ's ability and to get out on the trails w/ other vehicles.
I personally wish we could get away from the KJ name and just be L.O.S.T. West. I feel the same about the forum. I think it is the best way to insure the growth of the local club as well as the forum and national groups. We are losing the KJ name as far as the Liberty goes w/ the new KK coming out and we should be including them in our Liberty based club.
Keeping the KJ in the name will only allienate the KK Liberty owners.

L.O.S.T. was started as a place for Libertys AND those that appreciated them. We wanted the group & forum to be different from others by specializing in Liberts but llowing all Jeep models in to participate and learn about Libertys. We decided a while ago to add sections for those other models so they would even feel a little more at home and to hopefully draw in owners of those makes to our group. Many have come to us and the comments about our site have been pretty positive.

I could keep rambling on that topic but I guess I am straying from the KJ WEST topic.....
Our group should welcome in anyone that wants to join or participate w/ us. We have almost as many non-Liberty owners now as members that have only a Liberty. We have always tried to include easy, medium and hard trils in our events and we go out of our way to help new folks learn how to wheel. ......
gotta run...More later.....

tskalil · **Posted:** Wed May 23, 2007 2:48 pm

OK, some thoughts. First, I was never crazy about the name "L.O.S.T.". Even if you drop the KJ part, there's still the "Liberty Owners" part of LOST. And maybe it's a guy thing, but I don't want to be thought of as lost. If I were, I'd have to ask for directions, and that's extremely difficult. :lol:

Second, it was the KJ part that I was interested in - getting together with people with the same vehicles to learn what they could do and what improvements could be made. That's been really helpful. Although I have a YJ too, I prefer the KJ for its comfort, quiet and extra room, but with a great deal of capability also. I think about the new JKs some, but still like my KJ. However, I think it's clear that as a marque it will fade in the future, so a more appropriate club name would be good. Maybe have a name contest. One of the difficulties is that the group is rather widely dispersed and that's become more critical with the cost of gas.

As was already said, the especially good part is the people in the group. The other thing I like is that the structure is loose: no regular monthly meetings or requirements. I love the two big events we put on, Big Bear and Moab. They're well attended - no problem there.

As for how to get more things going, perhaps it's best to just make a post about doing a run you'd like to do, as Wally did for the June 2nd run, and try to get a response, which he certainly did. If you only proposed something and waited for any responses, it might be too late. Wally just said that he was going and invited anyone else along. It worked. So you'll know, though, the low attendance thing isn't confined to us; many clubs, large and small, have the same problem. Very often it's the same 4 or 5 people who continually show up, even if the membership base is large and local. Others will come occasionally, and some hardly ever. I know this because I'm involved with other clubs, both directly and indirectly. The good part is that you can still have a great time with that many.

Another option is to take advantage of the many events being held by others, such as Cal 4 Wheel's High Desert Roundup; the Inland Empire 4 Wheelrs Big Bear Forest Fest; Cal 4 Wheel's Sierra Trek and Panamint Valley Days; and many others. We could camp as a club and determine what runs we'd like to do.

Burchie · **Posted:** Thu May 24, 2007 6:05 pm

Great ideas everyone. As Ted said, we don't want to force people to show up to a monthly meeting, or a minimum number of runs a year. And personally the reason I looked at this club a couple of years ago, was because of the family atmosphere. All the other So Cal jeep clubs, (Most of the others, in my opinion) were hard core jeep people with modified rigs. And if you didn't break it, you didn't run the trail hard enough. I was new to jeeping, after just selling my boat, and wanted to learn the basics and hang out with a great group of people.

People will come and go, and some will stay other will leave. No matter If we all run Jeeps, Fords, or sell it all off and become nudist colony, we need to remember what this club is all about. The people.

lilmatty · **Posted:** Thu May 24, 2007 6:24 pm

Burchie wrote:

... we need to remember what this club is all about. The people.

i second the motion and vote aye.

fermill403 · **Posted:** Thu May 24, 2007 7:35 pm

nudist colony :shock:

jpzkj · **Posted:** Thu May 24, 2007 9:53 pm

Burchie....you better keep your shorts on man.

:shock:

CaKJFreedom · **Posted:** Fri May 25, 2007 12:37 pm

I would be so out of here... :shock:

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