aev / superlift

KJNick · **Joined:** Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:00 pm **Posts:** 56

ARBSeth,

Just curious, but didn't Superlift already develop a lift for the Liberty that was installed as a prototype on the Liberator? Was it that far from a production design that the design couldn't be finalized without a lot of work?

I know the Liberator has been off road so unless the adaptation of the GC front diff made a significant difference to the suspension design, the design obviously will work off-road.

carroll952 · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 1:12 pm

KJNick wrote:

ARBSeth,

Just curious, but didn't Superlift already develop a lift for the Liberty that was installed as a prototype on the Liberator? Was it that far from a production design that the design couldn't be finalized without a lot of work?

I know the Liberator has been off road so unless the adaptation of the GC front diff made a significant difference to the suspension design, the design obviously will work off-road.

That was a prototype, and although it works fine I'd guess it's far from being a mass produced lift. Like Seth said, they can do custom work for a price and that's probably closer to what they did with the Liberator. Besides, if I was going to spend that much money on a lift, I'd convert to an SFA.

Justin

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 1:14 pm

You can buy those prototype knucles from superlift(I believe Al was going to get them,then decided not to),they only want like $2500 for them :shock:

(that's just the knuckles).

carroll952 · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 1:54 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

You can buy those prototype knucles from superlift(I believe Al was going to get them,then decided not to),they only want like $2500 for them :shock:

(that's just the knuckles).

Ouch

jerbacher · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 2:06 pm

just use that cash for a down payment on a jk...

mb818 · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 3:53 pm

you know what really pisses me off? how the offroad magazines are jumping all over the patriot like it's the best thing since the XJ cherokee... come on... the same people that bashed all over the KJ for having IFS now compare the patriot to the cherokee in a favorable way... and the patriot has full independent suspension (no possibility of a decent lift) and no real transfer case (no upgrades)....

the reason for crappy aftermarket support for the KJ is the lack of acceptance from the jeep community when it was released... everyone just looked at it like a turd... and nobody thought anyone would wheel it.

in contrast... look how much support there is for the toyota FJ cruiser... you can't tell me that they can lift that thing up 6" any cheaper than you can build a 4" lift for a KJ... the simple fact of the matter is community acceptance... the toyota people love their new FJ... therefore, the aftermarket jumps at the chance to develop lifts for it....
the jeep people hated the KJ when it debuted... sad, really. it's such a nice platform.

ok ... i'm done venting now :shock:

Mark

Fulltimer · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 5:11 pm

If you want to see what other Jeep owners think of the KJ go to The Florida Jeepers Offroad Association. Their KJ forum is a joke. The butt of the jokes are KJ's. I kind of gave them my thoughts on the place :evil:

Terry

Fulltimer · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 5:16 pm

I do have to agree with the idea that unless the KJ gets accepted by the other Jeep owners as being "A Real Jeep" , there just won't be much of an after market for parts etc. It is a shame also because you have a good riding and comfortable Jeep in the KJ. As far as off road use goes it will probably die a slow death due to lack of interest.

Terry

Jeger · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 6:18 am

How long has toyota had IFS?

Maybe that is why they have decent IFS lifts, they have nothing else to work with.

Dje Ryu · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 9:42 am

Fulltimer wrote:

I do have to agree with the idea that unless the KJ gets accepted by the other Jeep owners as being "A Real Jeep" , there just won't be much of an after market for parts etc. It is a shame also because you have a good riding and comfortable Jeep in the KJ. As far as off road use goes it will probably die a slow death due to lack of interest.

Terry

I've found a few Jeepers that actually like the KJ. http://www.backcountrycrawlers.com/smf/ ... opic=349.0

ARBSeth · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 11:11 am

Couple quick hits on the FJ vs the KJ

The FJ has Toyota Arms. They're stronger than a Jeep and have enough tolerance in the system to support a 2.5 - 3" lift without changing a thing. No ball joint problems, no broken CV's, no broken Diffs. The FJ has an 8" 30 spline front diff... almost 25% stronger than the KJ. Toyota engineers their stuff to have more tolerance so they're very lift friendly. DC and the KJ... not so much.

The FJ has a serious transfer case and stock 3.90 gears. Locking Diffs. A Trac. Stock 265 tires. A small lift and you're running 33's...The list goes on. It was designed out of the box to be modded and wheeled. The KJ... not so much.

To lift an FJ 6", you still have to cut the cross member and do a diff drop bracket. You can't do that with a KJ for the above stated reason. Diff drop's are easy to do and cheap. They've been doing them to Chevy's for years. All Pro did an SFA kit for the FJ right away because Primedia subsidized the project...

Look guys... it's simple. When I tell an FJ guy that his bull bar is going to cost him over a grand and that he's going to need to lift it to hold up the weight, and that the whole deal will cost him about $4000 or so.... he says "Where do I sign?". When I say to the average KJ guy "It's less than a grand for a bull bar and the lift is under a grand, too" you guys tell me it costs too much and it's not worth it. The KJ is still the best selling Midsized SUV in America.... believe me... if the community would pony up and pay for the product, we'd make it.

It's economics... sorry. For a quick example... we sell about 250 FJ bull bars a month and 250+ suspension kits. The KJ... maybe 20 bars and about 50 Suspension kits. Toyota has only sold about 75K FJ's to date... by comparrison... Jeep Made 45K KJ's last QUARTER. In Australia, the KJ is one of our best selling platforms. The Aussies wheel their rigs... here.. not so much. It's my job to know this stuff... sorry it sucks. Tell mom to get the KJ out of the Mall lot and out on a trail and you'll see more Aftermarket support.

steepcreekfreak · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 11:51 am

Yeah I have been lookin at those FJ's. I got a kayaking buddy that has one and he loves it. All plastic interior no carpet. Beefy built.

I love my jeep but I think that may be my next venture.

jerbacher · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 12:03 pm

steepcreekfreak wrote:

Yeah I have been lookin at those FJ's. I got a kayaking buddy that has one and he loves it. All plastic interior no carpet. Beefy built.

I love my jeep but I think that may be my next venture.

Seems like a pretty cool truck. I have heard bad things about the interior space though (leg room especially). And, I think they look goofy as hell. Being a designer, I'm definately open to new things, but I just dont think it looks good.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 12:17 pm

ARBSeth makes a great point. When someone buys a Wrangler, it is "expected" to be lifted ect. When someone buys a FJ (because of the FJ history), it is "likely" to be lifted ect. When someone buys a KJ it is "unusual" to get it lifted ect. Jeep really never planned for any of their vehicles to be modified to the extent of a "Wrangler". I would bet than even the Grand Cherokees and Cherokees were not built for people to do what they have done to them. The new Patriot is even further away from the "norm" to be lifted ect.

I always knew MOST OF YOU were "unusual" from the beginning :lol:

.

All that being said, it is because of people like the members of L.O.S.T. that have pushed the KJ as far as it has when it comes to lifts ect. As KJs age more people will go to the SAS...rubberized interior floors...custom 2 door conversions...caged or exoskeleton tubing...ect.

Always remember, anyone who wheels thier vehicle is a "CLOSET JEEPER' no matter what they wheel...they just don't know it :wink:

jcphoto20 · **Joined:** Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:36 am **Posts:** 507

[quote="kolesy"][quote="jcphoto20"]yup the only true advantage to ifs is the lighter unsprung weight and the ground clearance for going thru mud.[/quote]

So what about that solid axle on 38"s how much ground clearance does that have for the mud? :roll:

[/quote]

whatever, mr eyes roll. IFS thats built to take 38s would have more ground clearance, DUHHHHH.

Donnie · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 2:17 pm

ARBSeth wrote:

Couple quick hits on the FJ vs the KJ
When I say to the average KJ guy "It's less than a grand for a bull bar and the lift is under a grand, too" you guys tell me it costs too much and it's not worth it. The KJ is still the best selling Midsized SUV in America.... believe me... if the community would pony up and pay for the product, we'd make it. .

I totally agree, you gotta pay to play. As I said in another thread, I was about to pick up a lift for my Silverado that was over 2k before I sold it, I had over 5k into it at the time. Then I hear people saying wow you spent 2,000 on rims, your crazy! :?:

That's nothing, I know a lot of people buying 4k rims and then some. All in all it seems like the KJ crowd doesn't like to go 'balls to the wall', they like to do it cheaply and flavorless. Most of the lifted guys even stay with the same bland stock wheels. Even if we had the ability to put on 35s you guys would be complaining about tire costs! Get out there are buy stuff, a 800 lift is DIRT cheap.

jcphoto20 · **Joined:** Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:36 am **Posts:** 507

folks buy liberties since they are reasonably priced, im guessin that people that are interested in reasonably priced vehicles arent very concerned about putting thousands of dollars into it.

Donnie · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 2:51 pm

jcphoto20 wrote:

folks buy liberties since they are reasonably priced, im guessin that people that are interested in reasonably priced vehicles arent very concerned about putting thousands of dollars into it.

In a way I agree, with models decreasing in value the sports are pretty affordable. But, with a sticker of 32k people buy (used) wranglers for a lot cheaper and put a lot more in. The Xterra is similarly priced, and there is a bunch of heavily modded ones on the site.

Rather than saying it's because they're reasonably priced, I think it's more on the lines of what the average buyer wants out of the liberty. As said, the comparable FJ and Xterra are their companies offroad trademark, hence the reason there are so many hardcore products, the KJ simply isn't Jeeps trademark offroader.

jerbacher · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 2:55 pm

I just dont have a whole lot of money, being fresh out of college to dump into a vehicle. Especially with trying to save to buy a new car for my fiance and getting ready for a wedding. So, I really appreciate that I can make a pretty decent off roader with a relatively small amount of money with the KJ

jcphoto20 · **Joined:** Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:36 am **Posts:** 507

exactamundo

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