ORM Mod circuit

bugnout · **Posted:** Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:08 am

Very Glad I got a 05 with Trak Lok as well. Not sure I would like ESP.

Sounds like you have to disable ESP, if thats even possible, if you want to add lockers to an 06

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:24 am

ESP is much more then traction control and I read it will be required on all cars in the near future. It works on both front and rear axels. There's a switch to partially turn it off for, per the manual, "deep snow or mud" :lol:

It includes brake assist that determines a rapid stop condition and applys more braking power. If it does reduce torque it's after a wheel has already lost traction so it doesen't really matter. I would think it would reduce your insurance permium too

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

The 05's had side airbags available - mine has them. The ESP/removal of trak-loc option and powertrain warranty reduction from 7/70K to 3/36K was the major difference between the 2 year models.

bugnout · **Posted:** Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:39 am

Quote:

ESP is much more then traction control and I read it will be required on all cars in the near future.

Another example of Nanny state thinking...

I would consider ESP for my wifes ride, but I'm a control freak, With few exceptions I don't really want all that stuff on my vehicle. More stuff to break and removes my freedom to choose.

The only significant advancement in auto safety in the last 20 years is antilock brakes. All these other additions remove the responsibility of maintaining safe speed and distance from the driver.

I think everyone should learn to drive a vehicle with rear wheel drive, manual transmission, no antilock brakes. It would make them better drivers. They will be much safer drivers when they get into better equipment.

(and let them try to talk on thier cell phones while two footing it. :lol:

)

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:32 am

Everyone should learn in a standard Pinto...they will learn to use thier mirrors

spencevans · **Posted:** Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:23 pm

Don't forget the diet Coke and a mini van full of screaming kids.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:48 pm

I certainly don't want to rain on anyone's parade, and indeed my hat is off to the people in this thread for having the brains and knowhow to develop this circuit. And I'm certainly not trying to be holier-than-thou and lecture from higher moral ground, being a user of the original ORM method. But a note of caution perhaps....

From what I understand reading this thread so far, this circuit box will be hard-wired into the vehicle harness, splicing into the wires. IE, not removeable prior to vehicle inspection, or at best, will still leave physical evidence even after removal that some device was used/attempt was made to defeat the EGR controls.

We know for certain, from our experience with the Suncoast TC installs and the phone call from Chrysler that the owner of our local tranny shop received, that Chrysler/DC does monitor this forum. It is also conceivable that the EPA and other federal and state agencies concerned with vehicle emissions could be as well. At the least, Chrysler could very well put a bug in their ear about what's going on.

Even in NC, where emissions testing isn't required for diesels and they don't bother even hooking up to the OBDII port (but which may change in the near future from what I've heard), they still check under the hood and underneath the vehicle. Both as part of the basic safety inspection, and also for obvious evidence that the owner has made an attempt to defeat the emissions control systems. Last September, long before the original ORM, I was asked specifically what and why I had the Provent installed and why I had an extra fuel filter plumbed in when mine was due for inspection.

With the original ORM, the vehicle can be returned to stock configuration and full compliance in 2 seconds just by plugging in the MAF sensor, and there haven't been any PHYSICAL modifications to the vehicle. Even if caught red-handed, an inspector would be hard-pressed to prove you had made a deliberate attempt to defeat the emissions controls ("I just missed that connector when I changed out the air filter") with nothing else out of the ordinary.

However, if caught with a circuit box hard-wired into the vehicle harness and mounted on the fender well, I imagine you'd have a tougher time talking your way out of that one. In this case, you have made a physical modification to the vehicle and altered it from stock for the express purpose of defeating the emissions controls. And the inspector would have physical evidence on the vehicle, either from the box or where you hacked into the harness, to back up his charge.

Believe me, I'm no saint in this case, and if you popped the hood on my CRD right now you'd find the harness for the MAF sensor dangling in the breeze.

I'm just sounding a note of caution. With the circuit box, it looks to me that you'll be leaving physical evidence, for someone who knows what they're looking for, that you have made a deliberate attempt to defeat the emissions controls on your vehicle, and leave yourself open to getting slammed big time.

Other than that, it's your vehicle and your money, and best of luck with the experiment!

midwest · **Joined:** Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:03 am **Posts:** 173

I agree with RETMIL, I don't even see the dumb cel anymore. You just get used to it being there.

chadhargis · **Posted:** Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:37 pm

Here in Tennessee, they don't look under the hood. All they do is the OBD port hook up, and on a gasser, a gas cap test. I have seen them use a mirror to check for a cat converter.

These ARE off road vehicles. Of course, anyone running the mods should only be doing so off-road.

That being said, I bet if you put a donut, a mop, and an EGR valve in a line up, I don't think the emissions testers here in Tennessee could pick out the EGR. I don't think they'd care. As long as the ODB port scan says all is well, then you're on the road.

Jeger · **Posted:** Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:37 pm

midwest wrote:

I agree with RETMIL, I don't even see the dumb cel anymore. You just get used to it being there.

It lets you know the ORM is working! :lol:

truckbouy2 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:30 pm

Hmmmm....
I like that Jeger, the ORM performance indicator light.

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:53 pm

retmil46 wrote:

With the original ORM, the vehicle can be returned to stock configuration and full compliance in 2 seconds just by plugging in the MAF sensor, and there haven't been any PHYSICAL modifications to the vehicle. Even if caught red-handed, an inspector would be hard-pressed to prove you had made a deliberate attempt to defeat the emissions controls ("I just missed that connector when I changed out the air filter") with nothing else out of the ordinary.

However, if caught with a circuit box hard-wired into the vehicle harness and mounted on the fender well, I imagine you'd have a tougher time talking your way out of that one. In this case, you have made a physical modification to the vehicle and altered it from stock for the express purpose of defeating the emissions controls. And the inspector would have physical evidence on the vehicle, either from the box or where you hacked into the harness, to back up his charge.

Woooaaa now, hold the phone! As far as disabling the EGR, etc, etc, for off road, who and even more important, why would DC even care? (Or anyone else?) This vehicle is out of production. They are not responsible for what anybody does! You can’t even get them to do half the warrantee work when they are supposed to!
As far as cutting into the wiring harness and splicing in your own “Test” connector, there are NO federal, local, or any other law or rule that says you can’t! (That I can find).
If you splice into the main wire harness away from all connectors, then have YOUR harness going into a “Black Box”, you assume that this someone knows what it is. If it is going back on the road or in for an inspection, and you have the jumper plug in place, then everything is EXACTLY the way it was before you molested it. (Just some electrical signals go a little bit further than they used to). EVERYTHING is in compliance. Everything will be working because nothing was removed, bypassed, short-circuited, re-plumed or anything else. 100% compliant.
Even with it in place, I have a nice $100 bill that says they won’t even know what it is. Even if they ask and one was to reply that is was some sort of security system, who would know?

I know of no inspector (state, private, or other), dealer, super tech, etc, that is going to take your connector, unplug all 5 CPU’s, and get an Ohm Meter out and start buzzing out over 1000 contacts trying to figure out what this “Suspicious” connector is.
There is NO dealership or state inspection that can even check the functionality of a working EGR on a diesel. PERIOD! (Nobody even puts an EGR on a diesel in the private market except this one). There is nothing they can stick up your tailpipe to check. If there are no CEL codes, (and there won’t be any EGR ones anyway), your on your way.

There are NO laws that state that you can’t add your own magic box. (So now LoJack, Onstar, other security systems, remote starters, GPS tracking systems, aftermarket electronic monitoring systems, fleet maintenance data recorders, cell phone amps, etc, etc, are all illegal because they have to splice into the wiring harness?) I hate to tell you that when you added your electric trailer brake controller you “Modified” your wiring harness. Don’t even think of adding that boom-box amp or Ipod adapter because you will be “Tampering”.

Don’t take my word for it. Check your local laws and see if you can get permission to add an experimental electrical connector on your own private vehicle.
Sorry if this sounds like a flame, but it is not intended to be.......

spencevans · **Posted:** Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:41 pm

Turbo Tim wrote:

retmil46 wrote:

With the original ORM, the vehicle can be returned to stock configuration and full compliance in 2 seconds just by plugging in the MAF sensor, and there haven't been any PHYSICAL modifications to the vehicle. Even if caught red-handed, an inspector would be hard-pressed to prove you had made a deliberate attempt to defeat the emissions controls ("I just missed that connector when I changed out the air filter") with nothing else out of the ordinary.

However, if caught with a circuit box hard-wired into the vehicle harness and mounted on the fender well, I imagine you'd have a tougher time talking your way out of that one. In this case, you have made a physical modification to the vehicle and altered it from stock for the express purpose of defeating the emissions controls. And the inspector would have physical evidence on the vehicle, either from the box or where you hacked into the harness, to back up his charge.

Woooaaa now, hold the phone! As far as disabling the EGR, etc, etc, for off road, who and even more important, why would DC even care? (Or anyone else?) This vehicle is out of production. They are not responsible for what anybody does! You can’t even get them to do half the warrantee work when they are supposed to!
As far as cutting into the wiring harness and splicing in your own “Test” connector, there are NO federal, local, or any other law or rule that says you can’t! (That I can find).
If you splice into the main wire harness away from all connectors, then have YOUR harness going into a “Black Box”, you assume that this someone knows what it is. If it is going back on the road or in for an inspection, and you have the jumper plug in place, then everything is EXACTLY the way it was before you molested it. (Just some electrical signals go a little bit further than they used to). EVERYTHING is in compliance. Everything will be working because nothing was removed, bypassed, short-circuited, re-plumed or anything else. 100% compliant.
Even with it in place, I have a nice $100 bill that says they won’t even know what it is. Even if they ask and one was to reply that is was some sort of security system, who would know?

I know of no inspector (state, private, or other), dealer, super tech, etc, that is going to take your connector, unplug all 5 CPU’s, and get an Ohm Meter out and start buzzing out over 1000 contacts trying to figure out what this “Suspicious” connector is.
There is NO dealership or state inspection that can even check the functionality of a working EGR on a diesel. PERIOD! (Nobody even puts an EGR on a diesel in the private market except this one). There is nothing they can stick up your tailpipe to check. If there are no CEL codes, (and there won’t be any EGR ones anyway), your on your way.

There are NO laws that state that you can’t add your own magic box. (So now LoJack, Onstar, other security systems, remote starters, GPS tracking systems, aftermarket electronic monitoring systems, fleet maintenance data recorders, cell phone amps, etc, etc, are all illegal because they have to splice into the wiring harness?) I hate to tell you that when you added your electric trailer brake controller you “Modified” your wiring harness. Don’t even think of adding that boom-box amp or Ipod adapter because you will be “Tampering”.

Don’t take my word for it. Check your local laws and see if you can get permission to add an experimental electrical connector on your own private vehicle.
Sorry if this sounds like a flame, but it is not intended to be.......

I agree with Tim on this one, and I truly believe the good folks at Jeep expected us to modify our CRD's with type of a device. After all it is a Jeep.

We are not the first to modify the EGR system on a car. The Duramax guys have been doing it for years. I have an 1985 Mitsubishi pickup with a Turbo Diesel and it to has an EGR valve. I went to modify it hoping to get better milage but guess what, it had already been disabled by the original owner 20 years ago. Another funny thing is it also had the EHM as well. Go figure.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:33 pm

No matter what we say here...puffs up ect...any mods to emissions are a matter to be concerned about. Now knowing that, if you are smart you can do the mods and reverse the mods fairly easily. It is the American way :idea:

My big question with the "black box" is whether the CEL comes on with it in place?

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:11 am

[quote="My big question with the "black box" is whether the CEL comes on with it in place?[/quote]

Well so far, just under 300 miles, 30+ start-stop cycles, and no CEL. Even when scanned, it says "Pass -- No Codes Returned."
I'll probably pour the epoxy potting goop in this weekend to totally seal it up. I sure wish you guys would hurry up and get some built out there to verify that this works on others besides my own......

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:20 am

DarbyWalters wrote:

No matter what we say here...puffs up ect...any mods to emissions are a matter to be concerned about. Now knowing that, if you are smart you can do the mods and reverse the mods fairly easily. It is the American way :idea:

Exactly. That was the point I was trying to get across - if you're going to do this, be smart and be careful (especially who you let know about the mod).

Granted it's probably a big if, but IF you happen to get the one a-hole inspector that DOES know what he's looking for, and DOES take umbrage with said emissions mods, unless you've done a good job of covering your tracks it could be a painful experience.

Sooner or later, you just might happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Like the gent down in Charlotte that just got nailed with $2000 total in fines for running SVO in his '81 MB, because he didn't post a $2500 bond with the state to legally use a non-roadtaxed fuel. He went down to Charlotte Motor Speedway when they were having a race, and the state DMV inspectors were on hand checking RV's and motorhomes for dyed fuel (offroad diesel). He had a nice big bumpersticker on the back announcing to the world he was burning SVO, and when one of the inspectors caught sight of that, the jig was up.

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

In AZ, I think we are ok. Inspectors never look under the hood of a diesel. Plus they are not real inspectors, just monkeys. They get paid $5.00 an hour here to hook something to your tail-pipe and/or plug a computer into your ODBII port. There is honestly not one in the whole state that could find the motor under your hood, let alone a controller box on it.

Fuel, on the other hand, is a different story. The Po-Po had all the rigs going to work pulled over on the side of the road one year ago with a big sign "diesel fuel vehicles pull over". They were doing dip tests during morning rush hour. Everyone was on the side of the road waiting-- about 150 diesel vehicles deep. I was P.O.ed at the arrogance of them to pull a stunt like that while everyone is trying to get to work. I was in the Corolla, so I did not stop-- but neither did the TDI in front of me :twisted:

. They did not notice him running right past their road block. I would imagine the CRD would have squeeded right on through as well.

If I did pull over, I would want the EGR hooked up-- so I could push the pedal down while I was waiting and let it run around 2500-3000RPM. Let those a-holes choke on the particulate matter fumes for making me get to work an hour late.

truckbouy2 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:37 am

Here in the state where ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is allowed our illustrious vehicle inspection program was scrapped along with ALL the multi-million dollar
inspection stations a long time back. The MN EPA gave up, our air is too clean. The Kremlin here is way too busy procuring money from us for other socialist
better red than dead programs to be concerned about exhaust pipe discharge (not to say that can't change). Let the development continue unabashedly.
One more little black box under the hood.... Won't even be noticed. Wisdom for today..."Hide in plain sight."
:wink:

weantright · **Posted:** Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:49 am

First if your worried about getting caught, worried about DC finding out, worried about voiding your warranty then don't do it. When your EGR items fail out of warranty you will wish you had the black box! Is this the best way to go at it?? Today with the knowledge and technology this is the best we have. EGR systems do not belong on Diesels at least the systems OEM have designed today.

skywarn · **Posted:** Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:45 am

I love this board! I love what we are doing! and on that note here is my input...

I am about the most AVG person on this board... how many of yall really knew what you were looking at the first time you poped your hood open?? how many of yall still dont know what your looking at even though you look under the hood every day?? Now think about this... ive had my Jeep for 2 years now, and for two inspec its been a 17 years old kid making $5.15 hr scratching his head saying "I didnt know that Jeep made a Diesel"!!! if most inspec dont know that we have a diesel, how are they going to know what they are even looking at?? And to quote Truckbouy2 - - "Hide in Plain Sight" I feel is the best way to do it...

ORM Mod circuit

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