Aftermarket CRD TC/Tranny/TCM Info

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:27 pm

danoid wrote:

[Why is the first assumption always that aftermarket is inherently better than OEM?

Well in my case, I'm ready to replace TC #2 from DC. I thought that at least I would give DC a second chance after the TC and Transmission from the factory hosed up as listed in the signature line.

They are certainly not going to get my vehicle to put in another OEM TC. The diesel techs at my dealership refer to the OEM TC as the "DCX Torch-Converter" since they know it's a piece of horse-hockey.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:39 pm

I would think the aftermarket converter is better than the oem in this case, but I have no hard proof. No way am I paying for one with so many miles of warranty left though. I'm on my second tc and could really care less if it was on #5 by the time I hit 70,000 miles. Then I would sell it.

Disclaimer- I do not and haven't worked for Chrysler or their suppliers at any time in my life.

danoid · **Posted:** Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:33 am

The torque converter is not optimal. That is evidenced by the recall. The shift kit is not required. That's all I'm saying. I intend to get a Suncoast or equivalent converter someday. I will not spend my money on a shift kit for reasons I've discussed earlier.

Ripster · **Posted:** Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:31 pm

I have the kit and would do it again, the difference between the parts and the spring tension, and heavy
duty cover, well there is no comparison. But each to his own. I removed the diode, due to a harsh shift
into 2nd gear and all is well till I can get the Suncoast.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

The shift kit is not required.

"So it is written. So shall it be."

Yul Brenner in the classic movie "The Ten Commandments."

But wait - you aren't Pharoah. Or Moses.

I love it, for the comedic value, when these baseless edicts are issued like an attorney quoting legal precedent.

Entertaining, if nothing else.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:44 am

I think the actual line was -

"So let it be written. So let it be done."

Had a gent on my first boat, better than 25 years ago, who was ultrareligious . Nothing wrong with that, but he was constantly trying to prosletize others over to his beliefs - even to the point of telling you you'd go to h##l if you didn't convert to his way of thinking. In the close quarters of a submarine, where you had to respect and tolerate each others differences and beliefs, and work together if you wanted to see daylight again, this went over like a lead balloon.

Whenever he got going on one of his impromptu sermons, at the first applicable pause, everyone else present would repeat in unison "So let it be written, so let it be done". He got the message.

crdmike · **Joined:** Tue May 16, 2006 7:25 pm **Posts:** 138

Jez, I've been out of the country on business and haven't checked in for a while; Ranger1 has been busy defending a good product. Believe me folks, my jeep shifts like a dream with the shift kit. The more I drive, the more I like.

BankNote4X4 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:08 am

Just got the SunCoast TC, TransGo Shift, and 2007 pump and cooler put in. The Tech put 11 quarts of ATF+4 in!!!!!!!!!!!
Do I need to have them pull the pan and put just 9 in???????? They seem to think it is not a problem at all, go figure.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:39 am

BankNote4X4 wrote:

Just got the SunCoast TC, TransGo Shift, and 2007 pump and cooler put in. The Tech put 11 quarts of ATF+4 in!!!!!!!!!!!
Do I need to have them pull the pan and put just 9 in???????? They seem to think it is not a problem at all, go figure.

Where is the level on the dip stick :?:

BankNote4X4 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:01 am

I checked last night when hot and I couldn't get it to show any fluid. So I was concerned and called the shop this morning, to find out they put in the 11 Qts. I had in the truck even though I told them 9. Checked this morning with the fluid cold and it reads 2/3's above the cold full and hot min. Should I only check when hot? I'll check hot again this morning when I get to work.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

BankNote4X4 wrote:

Just got the SunCoast TC, TransGo Shift, and 2007 pump and cooler put in. The Tech put 11 quarts of ATF+4 in!!!!!!!!!!!
Do I need to have them pull the pan and put just 9 in???????? They seem to think it is not a problem at all, go figure.

They put 14 quarts in mine... the 545RFE has a rebuild capacity of 13.x quarts, close to 14. At 14 quarts, mine was just below the HOT max level on the tranny dipstick. When I added an auxillary tranny cooler, it required nearly a half a quart more to keep the level correct.

As Joe correctly pointed out, the dipstick should be used to check the level. The top of the COLD mark is for 70F, while the top of the HOT mark is for tranny fluid at 180F, per the FSM.

I also noticed that it took a day or two of driving on mine for the level to settle out. Perhaps some trapped air was still in the valve body or TC. When they put a pump in, they disassemble the transmission and fluid empties out of the TC, valve body and main sump area. 9 quarts is not the refill spec for a rebuild capacity.

CATCRD · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:57 am

BankNote4X4 wrote:

Just got the SunCoast TC, TransGo Shift, and 2007 pump and cooler put in. The Tech put 11 quarts of ATF+4 in!!!!!!!!!!!
Do I need to have them pull the pan and put just 9 in???????? They seem to think it is not a problem at all, go figure.

Like Ranger1 said, just go by the dipstick. 9 qts will be to little.

More importantly, how does it drive?

BankNote4X4 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:49 pm

Thanks Guys,

I added 2 Qts today and the level seems to be just above max hot. So I haven't added any of the 14th QT. I left it in drive with the parking brake on for about 20 min. after driving 15 miles. I assumed that would be enough time to be over the hot min. temp. The cooler input line was dang hot.
I will monitor to see if air comes out. After that I was blowing 15 amp "flasher" fuses when putting in the tow wiring harness? Still haven't fixed: wonder if its just a bad unit?

The drive home with the 2 qts added: Seems to be driving more like I expected , The shifts are still quick and hit harder than stock. But now it is only a little more. With 2 Qts low on ATF+4 it was hitting very hard at shifts which softened up through the gears as heat increased(or so it felt). My shudder at 27 mph is gone; not sure if it was the filters or the TC. I am much happier with my rig after this mod. It seems to have better acceleration everywhere except for the first second from stop. Or at least more predictable and smoother. Haven't seen mpg improve but haven't driven any distance. The tech said the tranny cooler in the kit I bought with the 2007 pump was a "higher performance" cooler so I had them install. I Figured if it wasn't then at least I wouldn't have any debris carryover. I will probably still put the B&M stacked plate cooler on. But I fell much better about the drive train since SunCoast.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:57 pm

danoid wrote:

Ranger1 wrote:

Quote:

That doesn't happen until an electronic command.

Unless something like a professional TransGo Shiftkit modifies the pressure setting in the tranny pump, via a new set of pressure relief springs, at which the TC lockup occurs, as well as modifying where shift points occur with new springs in the valve body. For the home version, they supply a resistor to change the pump line pressure.

Then there is the matter of the torque multiplier in the TC bringing on more power faster due to higher efficiency and more torque multiplication at the same engine rpm and electronic setpoints from the TCM.

The transmission in the CRD is a 545RFE. The RFE stands for Rear (wheel drive) Full Electronic. Shift points and torque converter lockup are soley determined by software. Trust me on that one. 'Shift kits' are for hydraulically controlled transmissions with a governor and throttle valve. You also won't appreciably change the shift quality (firmer shifts) either, because the transmission adjusts clutch actuation to match pre-programmed acceleration targets. In my opinion, a shift kit for an electronically controlled transmission is snake oil.

You are correct in concept about the torque converter, if not in terminology. A 'tighter' torque converter actually has less torque multiplication, but greater efficiency. This greater efficiency transmits crankshaft torque more directly to the transmission, with less torque multiplication and less overall power loss.

I've been following this topic for awhile and I've got to say is danoid you don't know jack about auto trannies,electronic or not they still shift by the same means(hydraulic pressure).The new "electronically controlled" trannies use solinoids in place of some(some but not all) manual control points.Yes the TCM will learn your driving style and taylor the shifts to you but only to a point,there is still alot of mechanical action going on in the tranny that can be changed by using stiffer springs for the pressure reliefs.The main purpose of the "electronic" transmission is to help aid in the performance of the engine(and for ecomony)via all the sensors that the trannies now have.You even can make a "electronically controled" tranny fully "non-electronic",some of the newer trannies are harder because of the cost and most will revert to a non-electronic tranny to start with so it's not that common.Look at GM's 700R4,they make kits(Jeg's and summit have them) to convert it to run without a computer.

chrispitude · **Posted:** Mon Jun 25, 2007 7:14 pm

To be honest, I haven't noticed that the shift kit has made a big difference. The shifts are slightly crisper but that's about it. Actually I would classify this whole upgrade as more subtle than I was expecting. It's definitely worthwhile but it's not such a change that it doesn't feel factory. It actually feels like it should have come from the factory.

- Chris

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Mon Jun 25, 2007 7:48 pm

I'm just trying to get closer to where it was from the factory.

I've got a couple of hills on the way to work that were fun to drive before F37 - and they're an irritant now - rev's higher - drives slower.

Dropped it off this afternoon - should be back Thursday.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

Though they certainly seem to stir strong emotions, I think I'll pass on the shift kit and stick with the upgraded torque converter and hardware. I'm dubious of over-riding a TCM with a shift kit. If it were that simple, someone would be making a bundle off a shift kit to reverse the F37.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:35 am

I don't expect to fully reverse F37 until someone cracks the TCM encryption.

I'm looking for improvement.

I expect most of that to come from the converter, the shift kit is a minor cost compared to the converter, pump, install - I don't want to come back later and wonder - what if?

danoid · **Posted:** Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:42 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

I've been following this topic for awhile and I've got to say is danoid you don't know jack about auto trannies,electronic or not they still shift by the same means(hydraulic pressure).The new "electronically controlled" trannies use solinoids in place of some(some but not all) manual control points.Yes the TCM will learn your driving style and taylor the shifts to you but only to a point,there is still alot of mechanical action going on in the tranny that can be changed by using stiffer springs for the pressure reliefs.The main purpose of the "electronic" transmission is to help aid in the performance of the engine(and for ecomony)via all the sensors that the trannies now have.You even can make a "electronically controled" tranny fully "non-electronic",some of the newer trannies are harder because of the cost and most will revert to a non-electronic tranny to start with so it's not that common.Look at GM's 700R4,they make kits(Jeg's and summit have them) to convert it to run without a computer.

I get your point. Pardon me for wasting your time guys. You are all completely right and I'm an idiot. Once again I totally apologize. Please continue on your merry way...

chrispitude · **Posted:** Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:48 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

I'm looking for improvement.

I expect most of that to come from the converter, the shift kit is a minor cost compared to the converter, pump, install - I don't want to come back later and wonder - what if?

This was my reasoning as well. Also, the owner of the transmission shop had nothing but positive things to say about the quality and usefulness of the parts in the TransGo shift kit.

- Chris

Aftermarket CRD TC/Tranny/TCM Info

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