ORM Mod circuit

BiodieselJeep.com · **Posted:** Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:53 am

I think y'all are worrying WAY too much. I have to agree that:
A) most inspections are performed by people who got rejected at Micky D's
B) Even most dealerships have mechanics that have NO idea what your engine is supposed to look like.

to wit: last time my CRD went to the dealership (last time meaning I don't intend to go there ever again) I was talking in person with 3 service managers:

Me: "Last service you had to replace the CAC hose and other hoses, under warrentee, along with the EGR, most likely because of turbo-blow by oil combining with the soot. I have added an extra hose that takes the turbo blow-by and vents it out, so if you want me to remove it, I will before we move the Jeep into the bay.

3 of them: "What?"

Me: "You can see on my vehicle history in the computer that we had a problem before that cost you money. I have fixed that with an extra hose on my Jeep that avoids that problem in the future, but the hose might vent a little and drip on guys working under the lift. Do you want me to remove the fix for you before bringing it into the bay?"

3 of them: "Lemme see it."

Me, pointing into the engine compartment with no engine cover at the shiny, obviously not auto grade, clear plastic hose filled with oil spatter crossing over the whole engine and down the driver's side: "See the extra hose I added, do you want me to remove it?"

3 of them: "Which Hose?"

Me: "Never mind"

I think that you are VERY safe unless your car blows up myseriously and it gets sent to Jeep HQ for dissection AND is coinsidentally inspected by MrMopar.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:05 pm

And then you've got the flip side of the same argument - you end up getting the guy who is a complete diesel gearhead.

Happened last month when I got the MB inspected for the first time since buying it. Guy came back in and noted with some surprise that I still had all the hardware in place and hooked up for the EGR and ARV valves, that a lot of older MB diesels had had all that hardware removed and plated over by the owner. He even knew about the "BB" ORM - putting a BB in the vacuum lines to both valves to make them nonfunctional even with everything hooked up. At the time, I hadn't done that to mine yet. :wink:

I told him that one day this car might be considered a classic, and it would probably be worth more if it was in as close to original condition as possible, and that if NC decided to get anal and require full inspections of diesels as well, I'd save myself a lot of trouble reinstalling all that crap.

He rogered that, and noted that NC was indeed considering just what I'd mentioned, and if that happened there were going to be several PO'd MB owners he knew of, having to spend the time and money to replace the emissions hardware they'd removed and junked to be able to pass inspection.

And this wasn't at the MB dealer - this was at a Quaker State Quick Lube station.

Moral of the story - don't assume everyone who inspects your vehicle is a complete idiot, or you could end up looking like one. If you're going to assume anything, go in there with the mindset that these guys know exactly what they're looking for, and that you need to do the best possible job of CYA beforehand.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

I was told at my last CRD inspection that NC was on their way to adding diesel emissions inspection for the next year. Station owners not happy about it due to low volume of diesel owners and reported high cost of emissions testing equipment. If gassers in NC pass with nothing more than an OBD computer check, then diesels should be held to the same standard. No more, no less.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

Here in New Hampshire, the law requires that diesels be hooked up to the OBD computer for inspection purposes to verify that they are in fact, a diesel so they can be exempted from the gas engine air regs. Go figure!

dgeist · **Posted:** Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:52 pm

vtdog wrote:

Here in New Hampshire, the law requires that diesels be hooked up to the OBD computer for inspection purposes to verify that they are in fact, a diesel so they can be exempted from the gas engine air regs. Go figure!

That's funny. I'll bet there's a numeric code for the engine control computer and in a table in the software, it just says, "yep, you're exempt."

THIS is why an island of engineers would not work out.... no-one to change the oil and make up silly laws.

KJMedic · **Posted:** Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:03 pm

vtdog wrote:

Here in New Hampshire, the law requires that diesels be hooked up to the OBD computer for inspection purposes to verify that they are in fact, a diesel so they can be exempted from the gas engine air regs. Go figure!

Why don't they just open the fuel door and check the fuel? I'm no rocket man but I can tell the diffrence between gas and diesel.

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:08 pm

With the way that my "Sprinkler Timer" is mounted, and then when I mount the Provent in front of it, there is just no way anyone could or would know what it is. There are NO CEL codes. There is no possible way a road side Gestapo check point or any other inspection can determine what that little magic box is. Even if they hookup some scanner to the OBDII port, everything is reporting that it is working within manufacture limits. If it ain't broke, how are they going to fix it? There is nothing on the side of the road that can detect if a "Diesel" EGR is working or not. Just not possible, mechanically or electronically.

Besides, I was told that funny looking box has something to do with pulling in the distant radio stations.........Who knows......I am not the teeny-weeniest bit concerned……

spencevans · **Posted:** Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:56 pm

Turbo Tim wrote:

With the way that my "Sprinkler Timer" is mounted, and then when I mount the Provent in front of it, there is just no way anyone could or would know what it is. There are NO CEL codes. There is no possible way a road side Gestapo check point or any other inspection can determine what that little magic box is. Even if they hookup some scanner to the OBDII port, everything is reporting that it is working within manufacture limits. If it ain't broke, how are they going to fix it? There is nothing on the side of the road that can detect if a "Diesel" EGR is working or not. Just not possible, mechanically or electronically.

Besides, I was told that funny looking box has something to do with pulling in the distant radio stations.........Who knows......I am not the teeny-weeniest bit concerned……

I have had my CRD in for immisions inspections a few times and both time they said "this is the first diesel Liberty we have ever seen. I didn't even know they made a diesel Liberty". So if they never seen one, then what do they have to compare it to? How do they know what's stock? Tim is right quit worring about it.

Special Agent · **Posted:** Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:20 am

Okay, if somebody doesn't build and test one of these soon, I'm going to try... And that is not a good thing, my friends.

I do not understand electronics very well and will probably explode my jeep in violation of several local laws and void the warranty. Then I will go bankrupt and die in a horrible accident. And everyone who could have done it and didn't will have to feel realllyyyyy guilty about that.

So, in other words, somebody else who is more of an electrician/gearhead than me needs to get to snappin on this.

LOL.

Joking of course, but I really would prolly mess it up royally... But I want to try pretty bad.

LocoCRD · **Posted:** Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:54 pm

Parts are on the way. I will have it built up in a week or two. Work keeps getting in the way. Thanks again for all your hard work Tim.

Dennis

weantright · **Posted:** Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:00 pm

Update for all. I received the quote for production boards and they are at a great price. However the board layout/design is another issue. This cost is high enough that no one here would want to pay. Now I need a cheaper place to design the layout then have my local place build them. Anyone??

edon · **Posted:** Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:25 pm

Has anyone tried out a place like this before? Seems a reasonable price for low volume custom work. Maybe Tim could help with the design of the board.

http://www.expresspcb.com/index.htm

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:57 pm

That express PCB is a good outfit. I have a few people that are looking into it for y'all. Seems like everybody has something going on with the 4th of July coming, etc.. I"ll keep asking.....

hokiecb · **Joined:** Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:23 pm **Posts:** 46

weantright wrote:

Update for all. I received the quote for production boards and they are at a great price. However the board layout/design is another issue. This cost is high enough that no one here would want to pay. Now I need a cheaper place to design the layout then have my local place build them. Anyone??

Back in college we had a software program where we would design a circuit and then it would design the circuit board layout. Then you'd print it out on some sort of paper and use seems like a heat applicator of some sort to put the design on the board before etching. Now the details are real fuzzy but i do remember it being easy. If you can find somebody with that software looks like that might be a good cheap posibility for a layout. I'll see if I can find some of my old lab manuals and see if I can get some more details on the software.

chrispitude · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:49 pm

You can Google on "open source PCB routing" to find some tools for this.

- Chris

Tinman · **Joined:** Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:45 am **Posts:** 308

You guys worry too much about the inspection. There are some pickups out there that can blow chunks of coal out the exhaust. I serious. Some can smoke enough to block traffic. Not good, but you get the point. If a state just checks the OBD, this mod is good. If you are really worried, then just unhook everything, get it inspected, then hook it up again. Some states just check opacity, which is better with this mod.

KenJennings · **Posted:** Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:59 pm

hokiecb wrote:

weantright wrote:

Update for all. I received the quote for production boards and they are at a great price. However the board layout/design is another issue. This cost is high enough that no one here would want to pay. Now I need a cheaper place to design the layout then have my local place build them. Anyone??

Back in college we had a software program where we would design a circuit and then it would design the circuit board layout. Then you'd print it out on some sort of paper and use seems like a heat applicator of some sort to put the design on the board before etching. Now the details are real fuzzy but i do remember it being easy. If you can find somebody with that software looks like that might be a good cheap posibility for a layout. I'll see if I can find some of my old lab manuals and see if I can get some more details on the software.

Back in High School in the early 80s I remember buying a setup from Radio Shack that used a special pen to draw traces on a copper clad board and then the board was washed in a special solution removing the copper everywhere it wasn't drawn. It was darned messy (and probably an ecological nightmare). I smile now remembering how many pants and shirts I ruined doing it... and I never want to do it again. ;-)

hokiecb · **Joined:** Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:23 pm **Posts:** 46

KenJennings wrote:

...a special pen to draw traces on a copper clad board and then the board was washed in a special solution .....

Did that special pen say sharpie on the side?

KenJennings · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:25 am

hokiecb wrote:

KenJennings wrote:

...a special pen to draw traces on a copper clad board and then the board was washed in a special solution .....

Did that special pen say sharpie on the side?

I don't recall. It left an atypically thick trail of ink that had to dry first.

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:28 am

Instead of going to all the trouble to get a circuit board made, you could always do what I did to make one. Yes, do the circuit board if you are going to make lots of them. For building one, just get some of that circuit board that has the plated-through holes in it, cut it to size, layout your parts in order that fits around each other and solder it up. Then using wire-wrap wire, connect up the groups. Sure it takes time and don't drink any coffee first as the wires are pretty small, but it does work. After I had mine installed for a week or so, then I poured in some of that epoxy goop to seal it all up.
It's still working fine. 700+ miles, over 100+ start-stop cycles and no CEL codes. Nice and peppy.....
http://picasaweb.google.com/Turbo4tim/Ckt

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