So I priced a few things.....

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:54 pm

07 limited with v6 CRD, red, tow package.....................................$42,000
07 overland with v6 CRD, red, tow package included in overland......$44,500
07 ML320 CDI, white(dont like the reds availible), tow package........$46,500

Interesting how that all works out. I think Jeep has way overpriced the grand cherokee diesel, if for a few more grand you can buy a benz....

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

My theory is that Chrysler is trying to apply the "supersize me" theory of diesels to the Jeep model line up, as they have the pick-ups. Since really big, really fancy diesel pick-ups sell well, they (and the other US automakers) seem to think that all diesel consumers want big, beefy, expensive luxo-trucks. A diesel 1/2 ton, or small SUV, doesn't fit the marketing strategy (nor are they likely to be as profitable).

Kind of like Hollywood after a big blockbuster. "Titanic did great... so that must mean that if we make more movies with big boats that sink, we'll be golden!!"

Bovie · **Posted:** Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:33 am

They do have the same engine but the benz has a 7 speed tranny which gives better mpg. MB all the way.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:37 am

Bovie wrote:

They do have the same engine but the benz has a 7 speed tranny which gives better mpg. MB all the way.

I always liked the benz, Im just not sure how I would like it for what I would use it.

The real question is how well either does off road, and if either has a fold flat back seat I can sleep in.

Though the GC has a class IV hitch and is rated to tow more.

spencevans · **Posted:** Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:16 am

For that price I'll take a Cummins.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:27 am

spencevans wrote:

For that price I'll take a Cummins.

X2

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:38 am

spencevans wrote:

For that price I'll take a Cummins.

I dont desire nor require a cummins, I dont want a large truck to drive around town. Been there done that, not again.

Plus I really dont want a fullsize truck for offroading.

But I do agree for that price alot of people would rahter have the truck.

chadhargis · **Posted:** Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:39 am

Yep...I'd rather have the Cummins. But, it's overkill for what I need it for.

The Liberty is perfect. Just enough room, great towing ability, good economy. I love my CRD. It meets my needs so well, that even if I had the money laying around I don't think I'd "upgrade" to the Cherokee or Benz.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

42 grand is just about 2x what I paid for my '05 Sport when I bought it new in 4/05. Is the Grand Cherokee really twice the car compared to the Liberty?. If I wanted to spend 42 grand on a car it would't be on a Jeep.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:00 pm

For $42,000 ... but two used CRDs ... make one a "fuel milege" road vehicle ... and make the other more offroad.

RedStapler · **Joined:** Fri May 11, 2007 10:04 am **Posts:** 77

Smaller diesels are still very much a niche market in the US.

It would be interesting to see a demographic break down of small diesel owners (VW TDIs, KJs & MBs) by age, gender, income...etc.

Given that many women have a strong negative perception of diesels there is a big marketing hurdle right there.

I looked at the GC and was not that impressed. It seemed like a 20% more vehicle that our KJs at twice the price. They have loaded up CG CRD with every bell and whistle that DaimlerChrysler could conceive.

I plan to keep my KJ as the Off-road/utility/drive over the mountains in the winter and add a small diesel car in the future for commuter and summer road trip use.

VW makes ok engines but the long term reliability of the rest of the vehicle leaves a bit to be desired.

There is talk of Chrysler licensing MBs tech and putting a 2.2L into some of their Cars. The 3.0L CRD would be an easy fit for the Charger/300C.

IMHO Honda is the great hope for giving diesels mainstream credibility in the US market. Once you have lots of Accord drivers getting 35+mpg it will make Diesel a more creditable option for everyone. You also could have a true mileage champion if you dropped a 1-1.5L Diesel into a Insight or CRX sized vehicle. Heck you could possibly break into triple digit MPG if you took it easy.

I”ll buy a Diesel Accord or Civic 1-2 years after its introduction and any flaws have become apparent and been worked out.

chadhargis · **Posted:** Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:46 pm

There are two places that American auto makers are missing the boat. The first is a diesel powered full sized pickup like the F-150, Silverado, or Ram. They already do the bigger "heavy duty" trucks, but I'm betting macho men would line up for a six cylinder turbo diesel truck in the $25k range. The other area is the small pickup, like the Ranger, Colorado, and Dakota. Put a 4 cylinder turbo diesel in those trucks and you'd have a hell of a sales success.

It would also make sense to do a diesel minivan, but soccer moms wouldn't like the oil diesel hoses and having to search for diesel pumps.

At present, pickup truck owners fit the diesel demographic, and if the US auto makers would realize that, they'd sell a crap load of diesels.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:48 pm

chadhargis wrote:

There are two places that American auto makers are missing the boat. The first is a diesel powered full sized pickup like the F-150, Silverado, or Ram. They already do the bigger "heavy duty" trucks, but I'm betting macho men would line up for a six cylinder turbo diesel truck in the $25k range. The other area is the small pickup, like the Ranger, Colorado, and Dakota. Put a 4 cylinder turbo diesel in those trucks and you'd have a hell of a sales success.

It would also make sense to do a diesel minivan, but soccer moms wouldn't like the oil diesel hoses and having to search for diesel pumps.

At present, pickup truck owners fit the diesel demographic, and if the US auto makers would realize that, they'd sell a crap load of diesels.

Yup.........i see a diesel truck based on the wranlger being a success. still give a 4 door option and people will flock to it.

chadhargis · **Posted:** Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:52 pm

Bring back the Scrambler!!

A four door diesel Scrambler. Boy, oh boy....that sucker would be an instant classic.

litton · **Posted:** Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:57 pm

A couple of thoughts on this subject:

First, you can not compare a GC Limited to a Liberty Sport. I have one of each and they are totally differant. The GC is curising in comfort while the Liberty is a fun run-a-round fuel efficeint car. I did look at a Liberty CRD Limited before we bought the GC but the cost was over 32K for the Libby and the out the door on the GC was about 36K with Hemi, Nav, DVD, and etc.

Offroad the GC is strictly awsome but I've not given the Liberty a good test, I think it will be fine but probably not as sure footed as the GC. Here the Liberty may be more agile with it's smaller size. But the QDII in the GC is simply unbeatable.

Towing, GC hands down. The CRD in a GC would be incredible but the Liberty just doen't have enough capacity size to pull our TT.

I'm probably going to pop for a GC CRD in about 3 years when mine gets more miles then I like for towing. The Liberty will be with us for a long time ....it's a a really neat car that is a hoot to drive.

techTim · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:11 am

Can't agree more chad, I know a lot of guys that would love a cummins, but can't afford one, myself included, but a turbo four in a small pickup (toyota, you listening?), that would be a giant slayer. :twisted:

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:25 am

techTim wrote:

Can't agree more chad, I know a lot of guys that would love a cummins, but can't afford one, myself included, but a turbo four in a small pickup (toyota, you listening?), that would be a giant slayer. :twisted:

Both Toyota and Nissan already make exactly what you describe, the only question is if it would meet our emissions right now. If it did, I think its stupid not to have it on the market.

Nissan sells at ZD30DDTi engine in the patrol and frontier overseas. Its already in production, but only needs to be rubberstamped for the US.

A 4 door pickup like the frontier with a short bed, would sell VERY well with the ZD30 engine.

Right now there is some question if it would meet emissions, though in the past that was not a viable excuse.

techTim · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:52 am

excuses, excuses, excuses,
what we need is more excuses.
this topic sometimes veers towards the extremes in politics and environmentalism, but for my money, not to ruffle feathers, a hilux diesel four door, or the nissan equivalent would be on the top of mine and many others short list of "Rigs I gotta have"
I hope it happens in the near future,

.......maybe the aliens will bring their bio-mass machine that uses garbage, like doc browns in back to the future. Hmmm..........that was nuclear though........... :shock:

talk about ruffling feathers.
:wink:

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:36 am

techTim wrote:

excuses, excuses, excuses,
what we need is more excuses.
this topic sometimes veers towards the extremes in politics and environmentalism, but for my money, not to ruffle feathers, a hilux diesel four door, or the nissan equivalent would be on the top of mine and many others short list of "Rigs I gotta have"
I hope it happens in the near future,

.......maybe the aliens will bring their bio-mass machine that uses garbage, like doc browns in back to the future. Hmmm..........that was nuclear though........... :shock:

talk about ruffling feathers.
:wink:

Meh, I could deal with a Mr Fusion, screw diesel or gas, just give me all the free electricity I could ever want, and I'll slap some huge eletric motor in it.

chadhargis · **Posted:** Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:51 am

If only we lived in Australia:

http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/ContentS ... &c=DFYPage

Check out the www.ford.com.au site. They even have a diesel Focus! Sweet!!

So I priced a few things.....

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