I've been flat out warned by a friend of mine who was an engineer on this engine that BD would half its lifespan and cost me injectors by the boatload. I know some people get away with it, but no way am I taking the chance.

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2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

Now when EXXON starts delivering bio it will be just fine!




On the first point the issue is likely more of heat in the CRD rather than type of fuel or pressure and several here have physically seen air coming out of the fuel in clear, secondary filters placed before the primary filter head under high heat conditions. That problem seems to occur particularly on high heat days after the engine is hot, then it is parked for a time and restarted. The return fuel from the pump has been measured at up to 140 degrees and a technical paper on the RACOR site documents this problem as common in designs similar to our CRD. The few who have looked and found this have solved it with a combination of lift pump and cooler, the cooler being the least costly part of the project. Certainly the airbleed would help too as you say.

On the last point, you are right it is not likely a problem of bio versus dino.

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Dave

'06 CRD Limited, Lt. Khaki, MOPAR Slush Mats/Skids, DrawTite Front Hitch, Mag Lite, Yakima Bars, Thule Bike Rack, Fumoto, ORM, 245/70 Revo 2

Wish list: Lift, Boulder Bars, Something Bigger in the Front and Back, More Lights

Cowcatcher - You do make a valid point. What happens to the warranty on all these vehicles when Bosch injectors start failing en mass due to greater than B5 mixes in the general supply? Not a good situation for any of us...

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2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

Hummm, making things up again. I made no such point.

Lots of miles racked up here on bio and even more in Europe and very little of it B5. You can't hardly buy B5 on the Wet Coast it is mostly B20 and above with lots of pleased users and likely millions of miles on CRD's and other Bosch common rail served products. Not seen hardly any failed injectors and the two or three pump failures have been blamed on air and bad dino fuel from Shell. If you go on the web you will find a scientific study from a Bosch contracted specialist that indicates more potential wear with bio but noted it was only minor and that his study may be slightly flawed against bio. If you would like I will find it again on the web and post the link.

Actually here is an interesting study that is similar. Go to the conclusions if you don't want to be bored by all of the dry stuff in the middle: http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy06osti/39130.pdf

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Dave

'06 CRD Limited, Lt. Khaki, MOPAR Slush Mats/Skids, DrawTite Front Hitch, Mag Lite, Yakima Bars, Thule Bike Rack, Fumoto, ORM, 245/70 Revo 2

Wish list: Lift, Boulder Bars, Something Bigger in the Front and Back, More Lights

I am aware of your position on the issue, Cowcatcher, but you have never addressed the fundamental problems I have raised in other topics on this. And I'm sorry, but I'll take Bosch's official word on the topic as well as that of people I know who have tested this engine specifically over your study.

BTW, the study you reference was produced by Innospec(formerly Associated Octel Company), a company with a vested interest in biofuels(they provide many of the chemicals needed for BD production). That would seem to be a very large conflict of interest.

We should, however, take this conversation to the alternative fuels forum as we are derailing the conversation a bit.

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2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

Maybe you can link some of these studies? I know of no fundamental issue with biodiesel. There are quality issues associated with biodiesel and that's why vehicle and component manufacturers are not certifying it or otherwise making endorsements.

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'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! UFO wins the prize. I have NEVER heard of "high-quality" bio causing any problems. However, there's a LOT of non-ASTM certified, substandard bio out there.

You have to remember that most BD is made in small batches by small operators and the per-batch variances can be huge. If you don't get all the glycerin out of the oil and you subject it to 29K psi you get solidified whipped oil (ie Crisco) which will definitely cause problems.

Yes, BD has a much higher cloud point than #2 so you have to be careful if you live in a cold state. Although, the cold states even have to worry about #2 gelling so they add a bunch of straight kerosene in the winter.

I run B99 all the way down to ~32F and add dino in gradually higher levels until around 15F I'm pretty much straight dino with additive (I snow ski a lot in winter so while it doesn't get that cold at home, it does in the nearby mountains).

Not to mention there are plenty of threads on this board about people having problems due to water in their station's dino tanks. Bad quality fuel can wreck any IC engine. So just like w/ dino diesel, if you always buy from a reputable dealer you have nothing to worry about.

Finally, when the larger BD plants come on-line there will be much less variability then you currently get from a bunch of hippies distilling fryer grease in their garage

Bottom line is that I'm a living test case. 34K miles and no fuel-related problems. Feel free to ask me how it's going in the future.

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Chris
Current:
2007 Steel Blue Metallic Grand Cherokee CRD Limited
GDE Eco Tune and DPF delete
CB Engineering DPF delete pipe
EHM

Past (sold to Mountainman):
2005 Patriot Blue Liberty CRD Limited

A diesel is typically a half a million mile to million mile engine. 34k is not an appreciable sample size, even if a single owner could possibly be considered a representative sample.

As for studies, I have not claimed they exist for this engine publicly. As I said, a friend of mine worked on the engine, and I trust his results. I pass that info on and people can choose to heed it or not, their choice. I am not stating it authoritatively because the testing I am reffering to is not public(its military, actually).

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2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

I believe this topic if for CA owners to raise-their-hands.

Maybe a discussion of bio, not bio, how much bio could go elsewhere?

Started a new thread in the alt fuels forum if you want to continue:

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=23553

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Chris
Current:
2007 Steel Blue Metallic Grand Cherokee CRD Limited
GDE Eco Tune and DPF delete
CB Engineering DPF delete pipe
EHM

Past (sold to Mountainman):
2005 Patriot Blue Liberty CRD Limited

Another (southern) California CRD owner here. Picked up my 06 w/20K miles about a month ago. Really enjoy it so far. I expect to retire in several months and head out for some road trips. I'm learning as much as I can from this site and others. I test drove 4 different CRDs plus a coworker's who brought his from Colorado. These vehicles get crazy prices in California. But it is a great ride and if it lasts a long time it will all be worth it. So far (1K Miles) no mechanical issues. I ordered the Fumoto oil valve and a supply of mopar filters off ebay since they are not commonly stocked by dealers here. I have 11K miles left on the warranty before I do anything more interesting to the engine. I expect I will add the new hoses and maybe a better exhaust. If anyone is interested in a Southern Cal CRD meeting lets get together and swap stories, parts, advice & encouragement.

One thing that surprises me is the difference in diesel fuel prices, there is a 50 to 60 cent difference between stations just a couple blocks from each other.

Anyone have experience with Southern Cal Jeep dealers working on a CRD? The one local dealer (Alhambra) said no problem, just bring it in. They did OK work on my Cherokee but I am not sure who to trust with the CRD.

Haven't tried any biodiesel yet. There are a couple stations on the other side of town.

Yakers glad to see you made it on the site!
in case you didnt see it:
http://lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=26966

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http://www.Colorado4Wheel.com
"Its not about what you can DO with your Jeep, its about where you can GO with your Jeep."
Knowledgeable - But Caustic