For us Suncoast owners, is there a way to un-F37 the TCM?

chrispitude · **Posted:** Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:33 pm

Some questions for the collective:

1. What's the magic build date where the TCMs came with F37'ed code? In other words, if I get a TCM from a wrecked vehicle, what does the build date need to be earlier than? (I'd also need to look up the VIN and make sure the F37 flash update hadn't been applied to that vehicle.)

2. If I purchase a TCM and don't know its origin, is there any way to tell what code it's running? If I put it in my CRD, can the dealer look up the software version number?

Thanks all,

- Chris

chrispitude · **Posted:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:45 pm

Hi folks,

So I bounced this F37 business off a friend of mine who does a lot of computer/calibration work for various vehicles. Here was his response:

Quote:

Chris,

Go to the 60 way connector on the TCM. You want cavity #10, which should be right next to the center bolt. The wire is circuit T10, 20 gauge, YL/DG (yellow with dark green tracer). Put a simple switch in that line, I think it will turn the EATX torque management signal off.

Any takers?

- Chris

chrispitude · **Posted:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:10 pm

More information from my buddy:

Quote:

The PCM uses the TCM's torque management signal to turn off a certain number of injectors and to retard ignition timing slightly. This controls or reduces torque output of the engine during certain shift sequences. The torque reduction is not detectable by the driver and lasts for a very short time period. With some engines, the TCM sends a direct input, torque management request signal to the PCM. This occurs during high torque, high speed 1-2, 2-3, 4-2, and 3-1 shifts. The TCM torque management request signal is used in order to reduce torque applied in the 2-4 and OD clutches.
...
The torque management signal is basically a 9-volt supply to the PCM. A torque management request is recognized by the PCM when the TCM grounds the circuit. The circuit at the TCM is called TRD Link, which stands for "Torque Reduction Link".

I don't know if the F37 torque reduction happens only during shifts using this signal as others have said, or if there is another mechanism or behavior at work.

- Chris

Bill.Barg · **Posted:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:23 pm

Check out this product for GM ECM flashing..... too bad there is not something for us

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/te ... index.html

It specifically discusses torque limiting, etc.

crdjon · **Posted:** Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:15 am

MrMopar64 wrote:

Pablo wrote:

I was hoping the new JK would have the upgraded 545RFE and then we would be able to get the TCM flashed from that, as well as get newer internals from that beefed up tranny. It does not look like that is the case as the new CRD JK has the MB tranny in it. I don't know about the KK.

The dealer is kinda powerless. In order for the dealer to flash, they have to connect directly via "the internets" to the mothership (actually the STARSCAN network-- or whatever). If they lose the connection during the install, they get to start over again. So they only get what Chrysler/DC gives them at the time of the flash and DC's software will not let them store copies of flashes to keep laying around. Plus, it sounds like each download has its own DRM encryption code and unique registration number that gets assigned to your VIN. This is what InMotion can't crack (at least not easily). This way if someone does copy and hack a flash-- hooking it up to STAR could rat them out.

The '07 CRD JK has the same 545RFE from the KJ with minor changes for reliability. 360 N-m limit for the trans. 2008 CRD JK has an improved 545RFE for a torque rating increase to 460 N-m -- new converter, etc. That converter will install into a KJ trans if you can find one...

In terms of encryption, the ECU calibration is "locked" by Bosch which means that any subsequent calibrations flashed into the controller must contain the same security code algorithm. It also applies to any communication method with the controller (CAN, ISO-9141 K-Line, J1850) so without having a locked calibration from Bosch you can't reprogram through communication. Additionally, new calibrations are set up for supercedence so that you can only flash forwards, not backwards. The only way to combat either of these "features" is to get a custom calibration made - but for Bosch to lock a new cal then you're talking about 5 figures of money.

For the TCM, those are all done internally by Chrysler so I'm not sure if there is a security protocol for the trans cal. I know the supercedence issue will come into play again so that's one avenue to overcome. I'm not 100% on this, but I seem to believe that the KJ uses the EATX module for the transmission vs. the newer NGC4 trans controller for new applications which might be part of the problem as well.

Does anyone know how to identify the type of auto transmission I have. Im in Australia, I have the 2007 CRD KJ auto, I heard a tech at the dealership mention that my trans was MB influenced. Im not too sure about this and would like to (need to identify) this as im considering a Suncoast and shift kit. The transmission has a label on the left hand side with bar codes, it has RFE on it and 462 just above and to the right a little on the label.

One number starts TITJ040710748 timestamp 17:53:40
and the second number P52119462AE RFE 462

I have this and read it, but dont know how to identify the TC that might be in it. http://www.hotrodlane.cc/New%20HEMI%20T ... 0trans.pdf

Id appreciate any Info..... tah

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:21 pm

crdjon wrote:

MrMopar64 wrote:

Pablo wrote:

I was hoping the new JK would have the upgraded 545RFE and then we would be able to get the TCM flashed from that, as well as get newer internals from that beefed up tranny. It does not look like that is the case as the new CRD JK has the MB tranny in it. I don't know about the KK.

The dealer is kinda powerless. In order for the dealer to flash, they have to connect directly via "the internets" to the mothership (actually the STARSCAN network-- or whatever). If they lose the connection during the install, they get to start over again. So they only get what Chrysler/DC gives them at the time of the flash and DC's software will not let them store copies of flashes to keep laying around. Plus, it sounds like each download has its own DRM encryption code and unique registration number that gets assigned to your VIN. This is what InMotion can't crack (at least not easily). This way if someone does copy and hack a flash-- hooking it up to STAR could rat them out.

The '07 CRD JK has the same 545RFE from the KJ with minor changes for reliability. 360 N-m limit for the trans. 2008 CRD JK has an improved 545RFE for a torque rating increase to 460 N-m -- new converter, etc. That converter will install into a KJ trans if you can find one...

In terms of encryption, the ECU calibration is "locked" by Bosch which means that any subsequent calibrations flashed into the controller must contain the same security code algorithm. It also applies to any communication method with the controller (CAN, ISO-9141 K-Line, J1850) so without having a locked calibration from Bosch you can't reprogram through communication. Additionally, new calibrations are set up for supercedence so that you can only flash forwards, not backwards. The only way to combat either of these "features" is to get a custom calibration made - but for Bosch to lock a new cal then you're talking about 5 figures of money.

For the TCM, those are all done internally by Chrysler so I'm not sure if there is a security protocol for the trans cal. I know the supercedence issue will come into play again so that's one avenue to overcome. I'm not 100% on this, but I seem to believe that the KJ uses the EATX module for the transmission vs. the newer NGC4 trans controller for new applications which might be part of the problem as well.

Does anyone know how to identify the type of auto transmission I have. Im in Australia, I have the 2007 CRD KJ auto, I heard a tech at the dealership mention that my trans was MB influenced. Im not too sure about this and would like to (need to identify) this as im considering a Suncoast and shift kit. The transmission has a label on the left hand side with bar codes, it has RFE on it and 462 just above and to the right a little on the label.

One number starts TITJ040710748 timestamp 17:53:40
and the second number P52119462AE RFE 462

I have this and read it, but dont know how to identify the TC that might be in it. http://www.hotrodlane.cc/New%20HEMI%20T ... 0trans.pdf

Id appreciate any Info..... tah

you have the 545rfe.

The transmission you may be thinking about is the "722.6" from the older mercedes lineup which is now in the new WKs.

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:46 pm

Correct - my ole '05 has the P52119462AC edition of the 545RFE - part of the later "E" rating would be the upgraded oil pump\front seal and the new p\n of the the oil-cooler-return filter

Our series does indeed have the EATX TCM, and there may well be a way to alter the firmware without asking ECM\BCM permission - I'm working on it as time allows - the NGC4 TCM looks like the PCM from earlier years, with 3 - count'em, 4 - four connectors across the face of the module

I have been running TMR-less since SEGR install* - only discernible difference is the buried TMR sense failure error in archives, but I need to connect the switch to really tell fer sure, as I don't drive the KJ much - plus, just cutting the wire may not be the correct method - again, something I am looking into as time allows - along with the switched Transgo pressure-offset resistor - what we really need is to get the secondary pump to cut in on demand, for bursts of torque-enhancement

*Next to last pic:
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... 596#271596

crdjon · **Posted:** Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:04 am

Thanks for the info. Guages arrived today. Can now n stall and get switches and leds installed to monitor when things happen and what..... boost, tmr, egr operation etc etc. Getting ready for a new TC and shif tkit.

GMCTD, with the TMR disconnet, do you get the sense that anything is not working as a result, stuff such as traction control etc etc...

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:48 am

ESP traction control is standard on '06^ CRD KJ's with 4W-ABS - '05's have RW-ABS only - disconnecting TMR sense line does generate an error code that can be seen by the dealership, so be forewarned vis-a-vis warranty service considerations.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:42 pm

Why would we only have rear ABS on the 05? That seems stupid, as the pump is already there doing the work, and it's the front wheels that are the most important in a panic stop. They are doing 75% of the stopping force.

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:29 pm

Correct term is RWAL - has sensor on each front wheel, one sensor on ring gear in differential, suitable for pick'em up trucks and other low-brow vehickles - not even suitable for traction control, so '05's don't suffer from it - yay for us '05'ers!!!

4W-ABS has one sensor on each wheel, infinitely more resolution from rear lockup, plus can be used for any wheel loss of traction during power application - thus, the '06's get ESP Traction Control - pity the '06'ers..........

crdjon · **Posted:** Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:08 pm

gmctd wrote:

EMS traction control is standard on '06^ CRD KJ's with 4W-ABS - '05's have RW-ABS only - disconnecting TMR sense line does generate an error code that can be seen by the dealership, so be forewarned vis-a-vis warranty service considerations.

Tah, I think Ill try to measure it first, see how and when it activates. 2WD, 4WD, low range, soft and hard surfaces etc etc

gmctd · **Posted:** Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:36 pm

That's what I was doing this a.m. when the sky opened up

ribbon · **Posted:** Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:30 am

back from the dead. any more info on this? Anybody find a way?

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:21 pm

I'm very hesitant to mess with the TCM in my KJ at this experimental stage, so have been looking for a suitable test-victim, to no avail - know where two are, but not available unless owner can sell the associated 545RFE, less TCM - so, I've been at a standstill, other than acquiring related hardware, modifiable for the required testing - last ditch resort: new TCM from Mr MoParts is 200bucks online - may have to bite the bullet, take my medicine, pay the piper, ante up, in for a penny, in for a pound, bend over and spread'em on this one.....................

The Hemi trucks use the same 545RFE, but transmission control is in the NGC single-board PCM which also runs the engine, and is CAN protocol - the 68RFE behind the Cummins engine has a stand-alone TCM, but is a variation of the NGC PCM, intricately connected to the NGC PCM via the CAN protocol - the big Dodges use Bosch CRD control in the DCJ NGC PCM, modified by DCJ, so likely is not severly locked like our Bosch ECM

Our KJ DCJ-TCM\Bosch-ECM setup is officially termed Hybrid, as the EATX TCM is J1850\K (SCI) but the other on-board modules are CAN - the NGC ECM\TCM's for the Hemi's are all CAN - Jeep uses the DCJ EATX TCM interfaced to the Bosch proprietary ECM CRD controller via direct digital input\output for the various functions, such as TPS, CPS (rpm), VSS, etc - not sure yet if any comm relating to function is done over the J1850 line - EATX does use this for comm with the RWAL controller = SGII contention

Sprinters, Crossfires, 300's, and GC's use the Mercedes NAG1 5sp slush-box with variant torque ratings according to engine torque output, similar to the 545RFE variants, so that's not much help, even tho that TCM allows individual 1-2-3-4 gear-range selection and a host of other desireable features - main exception being the shift quadrant has it's very own computer module, interfaced to the TCM via CAN-buss - just what we need, more complication and trickery

So.....that's what I know at this juncture (I think!), but no further along with the dispositional repositioning - sigh....................

MTB_TDI · **Posted:** Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:43 pm

From what I have been able to gather this is how Chrysler does it.

The piece of hardware you need is called an IBOX II+, manufactured by Debron Industrial Electronics. But they charge Chrysler $3500 each and they probably have an agreement to not sell them to the outside. With one of those, you can upload the software into an editable file, edit it, and reflash it.

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:00 pm

Yeah, and that's just for the ECM.............

I got the rest of the stuff, just need a committed victim.....errrrr, patient.

It's sorta like breakfast: the chicken is involved, where the pig is committed....................

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:42 pm

gmctd wrote:

Yeah, and that's just for the ECM.............

I got the rest of the stuff, just need a committed victim.....errrrr, patient.

It's sorta like breakfast: the chicken is involved, where the pig is committed....................

There was a boneyard in NC that had a CRD that I was looking at for the engine, I think they said it still had all the electronics, but it was a right-hand front damage.

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:26 pm

Cool - they gotta email address, or eBay store, or phone #?

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:29 pm

...I'll get back to you on that. If it's not F37'd, do you think you will be able to get someone to copy the firmware for cloning onto everyone else's? A straight cloning wouldn't necessarily require access to the actual coding behind the encryption...

If that is the case, dibs on the first cloned target.

For us Suncoast owners, is there a way to un-F37 the TCM?

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