I still have one thats been used only a few hours for $100.

Greg

_________________
Greg
www.lubricationspecialist.com
888-306-4255

PM sent

what were your symtems before installation and more importantly how does it perform after? please describe in detail if you can....
thanks.

The lift pump for a Chevy 6.5L may be a better option. I recently got a Delphi pump from Blue Ridge Diesel for my Suburban. It was $55 shipped. The 6.5 pump puts out about 5psi and is a flow through design, if the pump quits, it still flows fuel. I don't remember what the flow rate is but it should be good for the CRD. You would need proper fittings to adapt it.

Kennedy Diesel sells a ready made kit with 1/2" fittings for the Duramax. It looks like a 6.5 pump to me. Listed on his site as "Universal Fuel Lift Pump kit" in the Duramax section.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD-SOLD
Dynomax 2.5 exhaust

It would be interesting to know how many CRDs out there have been modified with an auxillary lift pump. And the next question that raises its head is, of those how many have had problems with the CP3 or the "gremlins" that reportedly occur as the CP3 sees positive pressue. I fully believe that negative pressure through the filter is a bad thing and that a lift pump should provide an easy answer, especially since our KJs have a pre wired system to accomodate that add on. If indeed the lift pumping through the filter to the injector pump is going to cause trouble, I will probably interpose a vapor separator tank between the CP3 and the filter to buffer any positive pressure to the injector pump. Any thoughts?
D

Kennedy Centrifugal Lift Pump on mine. Been running with it for around 2 tanks, close to 1000 miles, plus a fuel cooler. No problems whatsoever. It has improved idle quality and reduced noise level to a noticeable degree, throttle response, particularly on WOT accels, has improved as well. Engine fires right up, no matter the outside temp or how hot the engine is or what kind of driving cycle I've put it thru.

Ranger1 has monitored fuel rail pressures with an Eqqus scan tool - no change between running with or without a lift pump.

And the best part of all - NO $%#^&% AIR IN THE FILTER!!!

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

I've an 04.5 model year 5.9L Cummins diesel out of a Dodge pickup, transplanted in my GMC Suburban.. When I made that move about 2 years ago I did a lot of research, including joining the TDR (Turbo Diesel Register - a web forum) and others like it to get as much knowledge about the rigs as I could.

Bit like being here!

The 03-04 model year(s) and later use a Bosch CP3, as do Chevy Duramax's and evidently (in some form) our Liberty engines.

The RAM pickups all use lift pumps - and don't seem to suffer from positive pressure, within limits. My recollection from TDR is that up to about 14psi or so is Ok, but you shouldn't go above that.

I have, therefore, little fear of CP3 failure in my jeep as a result of a lift pump pressurizing the system. Quite a few of the Dodge owners on TDR have installed F.A.S.S. systems, for example, which serve as lift pumps, provide additional filtering, and perform air removal.

I would be careful, though, as some fuel pumps put out quite a bit of pressure; upwards of 100psi - particularly those designed for later model fuel injected gas engines. As long as you keep the pressure modest, you should be fine.

If you do add a lift pump, I would also recommend a fuel pressure gauge or some type of low-pressure indicator - since one of the more common causes of high-pressure pump failures in the Dodge trucks has been lift pump failure, which restricted fuel flow, which caused overheating of the VP44 or CP3.

A gauge is also nice to let you know when your fuel filter is needing to be replaced, if you install the pickup/transducer after the fuel filter.

Mark

_________________
--
2005 Liberty CRD
2004.5 Cummins 5.9L TD, F1s, NV5600 6-speed in a '93 GMC Suburban

Retmil46,

Its good to hear that your startin up is faster. I've noticed mine is starting to stay longer on the crank and even longer when it's hot. I think this is an early warning sign of air (and/or vapor) in the fuel.

I used to start up with 2 hitches but now it's more like 5 or 6!

Well I just finished my lift pump install with a holly blue. It sure is noisy, but I now have my goldenrod prefilter reinstalled and I am running 50% WVO blend with no air problems. The wife hasn't heard it yet but I bet she is going to freak when she does.

_________________
Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

You called it. That's how I used to gauge when it was time to bleed the filter - when it took 4 to 6 beats to get it to fire. Now it's back to 2 beats, first time every time.

Gonna head over to the Glacier Diesel Power website. Got an idea involving their high flow banjo fittings and the CP3.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

You guys with installed lift pumps should keep a very close eye on the MOPAR fuel manager 'puck', where the plastic heater module begins leaking unexpectedly

Also, you don't need a 200buck lift pump - the standard GM6.5l lift pump will work just fine, is flow-thru type to allow fuel flow if dead, shuts off when head pressure is reached, and can be had for less than 80bucks at most parts emporiums - you've already got ECM control, the fused power relay, the wiring, and the location.

A concern with increased flowrate and pressure is the returned fuel to the tank - excessive return volume will result in excessive foaming, so don't go overboard with this mod - at around a quarter-tank fuel level, fuel opacity will look like the head on a good beer- more ain't better, here - 4-5psi @ 15 gph is plenty - remember: 15gph at 60mph is 4mpg - any of you guys wanna stand up and admit to that level of fuel (un)economy?

NAPA - 2P74001 (EDITED)

O'Reilley's
- Airtex - E3158
- Delphi - FD0009

Delco
- EP158
- EP309
- EP1000

Try one - you'll like it......................

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go

That NAPA part number is not recognized in their online catalog...

_________________
'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---

I searched by vehicle, '93 GMC 3500 6.5TD came up with that number and a second, more expensive 2P74001 - try that one

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go

I like the idea of the GM 6.5 pump too.
Just to add...

On most 6.5 engines the fuel pump is turned on/off by the oil pressure
switch.
Also, GM reccomends the use of a filter before the pump even though this
was not their standard practice. Reccomended because any crap and/or
water could cause premature pump failure.
Good to know that its a flow through type.

BTW, how do you plan to return fuel from the filter head to the tank?

_________________
U.S. Army Retired

That could be done like retmil46 or blackliberty or one of the members did it, with a bypass or'ed into the normal fuel return line - or just let the Inj Pump handle it - the Delco pump powers down as head presure is reached, and stays down until pressure drops, then will pump only enough to maintain pressure - when flow begins, so does pumping - and it's fully electronic so no points to wear out - they last ~50-60kmi in the GM's, more or less depending on OBD1-OPS controlled or OBD2-PCM controlled (like Jeep) but with redundant OPS control

A flow-thru lift pump is required to prevent CRD Inj Pump damage if the lp fails, particularly at hiway speeds, where rpm is up.

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go

If one were to install something like the Racor filter assembly, would a lift pump still be necessary? From what I have read, the consensus seems to be that our main issue is air getting to the poorly designed stock filter head, and that, when combined with the distance fuel has to be moved from our tank to the injector pump, gives us 55-60 mph bucking problem and some power loss issues (as well as the potential for a catastrophic fire).

Assuming the Racor filter solves the air leak problem, wouldn't the vacuum system then work as intended?

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited
Mopar engine, transmission, transfer case skids
245/70/16 Michelin Latitude X-Ice (winter)
235/75/16 Firestone Destination ATs (summer)
Thule roof rack, cargo box
V6 airbox mod
Flowmaster 50 2.5 inch muffler
Edge EZ module (set for fuel economy)
SEGR
TDIWagonGuy CCV filter
B99 (summer), B20 (winter)

From experience and intense reading here, there are two problems with the fuel supply system: foaming Diesel fuel caused by elevated temperatures, and the fuel heater 'puck' in the fuel manager head - both result in aerated fuel hitting the IP.

First, the second problem is Chrysler's, but you may have to solve it yourself, with a Racor\equiv - where fall\winter temps head way south of 30deg you will need a fuel heater - not a big problem down here where 40deg is freeze-a** cold, but would be interesting to run a poll for verification of geographical damage incidence.

Second, the first problem you can address by installing a return-fuel cooler in the return-pipe, and, if necessary, a lift pump near the fuel tank, with, for now, a return bypass tee'd into the oem return line - again, for those north of the Mason-Dixon line, a t-stat controlled bypass-valve is available to bypass the cooler in frigid climes

I've been reading thru MrMopar's responses to find that a lift pump is not recommended, causing CRD EFI snafus, but other posts indicate that it doesn't seem to cause any problems - I tend to believe him, as he has access to much more system-specific info than I ever will - I will get my scantool on it first available chance for verification, but #2 son would rather drive it than let dad investigate stuff - go figger............

I also read that in the '80s, 120deg fuel was considered ideal for Diesel combustion efficiency - remember, those were strictly mechanical IP's and systems, where the fuel was jammed into the cylinder all in a bunch - these CRD systems ain't yer grampaw's Diesel - the fuel hits the CRD IP at some ambient temperature, which is immediately elevated by contact with the engine-heated IP, where it is boosted to pressures they couldn't even imagine, back then=more heat - from there is it passed into the injectors, also heated by the engine=more heat - then the ECM sprays a little into the cylinder where there's a bunch of incredible heat, ~1625degF, initiating the burn - as burn increases, more and more fuel is injected, then tapered off as cylinder temperature and pressure decreases and oxygen is depleted - that's ruff, but generally descriptive of the event in these engines, as compared to the violent explosion in those old rattlers
I rather suspect that they were indicating that supply-system fuel temps should never be higher than 120degf, prolly for the same aerated fuel problem that's going on, here - but, Detroit Diesel seldom consults with me - in fact, never - so that's just my educated opinion.

However, you won't get return-fuel to drop below ambient temps with any size of cooler, even forced air-over coolers, so it will be within several deg of ambient in summer, much better than the ~140deg coming off the engine, with much less foaming - which results in less aerated fuel at the head.

Another problem I see is the position of the inlet and outlet ports in the head - IMO that arrangement should be mounted down low, as on a frame-rail, below IP level, and particularly out of the hot engine bay - 200deg ambient temps ain't gonna relieve the foaming in a 'draw from tank' system - also IMO, and from GM experience, the feeds on a hi-mount fuel manager should be at the bottom of the cannister, with a top-removeable filter element - no matter how foamy the surface of the fuel in that configuration, the bottom will be tranquil and smooth - a lift pump ahead of the filter ensures supply to the IP internal transfer pump, which is similar to the C3 version.

The Cummins 12v configuration is top-feed intake-mount with bottom-replaceable filter element like Jeep, but with lift pump ahead of the filter - for the 24v engines, they went to a side-feed top-load cannister, similar to GM's, with lift pump ahead of the filter

Sorry, guys - my son won't let me play with his Jeep, and I got nobody to talk to about it, so you guys get the gab...................................

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go

I guess I would argue a little with the cooler versus lift pump issue. Hot day temps under the hood after driving have been messured by users here at 140 degrees so not all the fuel temp issue is a result of bypass from the fuel pum that is heated by the pump. Combined with a vacuum pump design there is more chance of the entrapped air in the fuel being sucked out of solution and hanging up at the high point, the filter head. The lift pump located closer to the tank could limit some of the air escaping from the fuel since it limits the vaccum.

_________________
Dave

'06 CRD Limited, Lt. Khaki, MOPAR Slush Mats/Skids, DrawTite Front Hitch, Mag Lite, Yakima Bars, Thule Bike Rack, Fumoto, ORM, 245/70 Revo 2

Wish list: Lift, Boulder Bars, Something Bigger in the Front and Back, More Lights

I and others have noticed that when our CRD's first reach optimal operating temperature on the highway, we get great MPG for about 45 minutes to an hour. Then MPG starts falling off, on my rig usually about 2 mpg. On a recent 1.5 hour trip on flat interstate, my EVIC read 31-32 for the first 45 minutes, then dropped down to 28-29 for the next. Conditions were the same (flat interstate between Portland and Eugene, OR).

I have suspected this is connected with the heat issue and foaming fuel, but thats a wild booty guess. Anyone have other thoughts?

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited
Mopar engine, transmission, transfer case skids
245/70/16 Michelin Latitude X-Ice (winter)
235/75/16 Firestone Destination ATs (summer)
Thule roof rack, cargo box
V6 airbox mod
Flowmaster 50 2.5 inch muffler
Edge EZ module (set for fuel economy)
SEGR
TDIWagonGuy CCV filter
B99 (summer), B20 (winter)

I agree - imagine the underhood temps on a 100deg day, ac burning, stopped in traffic or creeping for miles - gassers (patooie!) used to have similar problems with vapor-lock, where the fuel would vaporize in the pump line to the carb, back-pressuring the one-way valves with resultant no flow and sudden death.

Imagine the temps of the fuel coming off the injectors, where the nozzles are exposed to that 1625deg combustion temperature

The spec'ed system would function better if the fuel manager was located out of the engine bay, back on the cooler frame rails - but imagine the 'customer satisfaction' commotion first time the gals had to crawl under there and change the filter and prime the system - and some guys, too.

IMO, the lift pump with filter-bypass is doable, but you must consider added aeration from the bypass - it would be tricky in New Mexico, for instance, where they've had way more than their share of 110deg days this summer - I need to get the scanner and some temperature probes and vacuum and pressure guages on the system B4 I could totally commit on that one - the warranty issue is a problem

The cooler is a good start, tho, with no warranty concerns - 'cept maybe in the dead of winter in Minnesota

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go