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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:45 pm 
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gmctd wrote:
Where did you get that 40109, Blacklib?


This is the link to the thread. I don't know if he has anymore left.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... ht=#243788

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:48 pm 
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Ah, yes - kept getting a cannot display page error - will try again

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:48 pm 
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Reflex wrote:
Just going to point out that using the simple calculator on the EPA website(fueleconomy.gov) driving the diesel vs. the gas version of the Liberty saves approximatly $400/year if around 15k miles are driven. Between that and the savings on oil changes(roughly $100/year saved) I figure the average Liberty CRD will have paid for the diesel upgrade in four years.

I know some of those mods are expensive, however I'd be suprised if they added more than another four years to the break even point, and in the meantime you get to enjoy a superior driving experience. In my own situation I have estimated that my own 'payoff point' is about 2.5 years due to my driving, keeping track of the cost of diesel(it was significantly cheaper than gas for much of the past year until recently), and lower prices for renewing my tabs(I don't have to do emission testing, for instance). Definatly a worthwhile investment for me, although that calculation could change for many depending on their driving pattern and local laws.

All this is before we get into the depreciation game. Mine cost me about $24k with all the incentives applied(and my friend's employee discount). Right now they go with similiar options for $23k-28k in my region. In other words, it hasn't depreciated at all, and to the right buyer I could sell it for more than I paid(and make a nifty profit). By comparison, the gas version runs between $16 and 18k with similiar mileage. Thats one heck of a benefit for those of us used to the philosophy of "drive it off the lot and lose a third of its value".

All in all, its a darn good investment. And its rare you can say that about a vehicle.


My calculations pretty much match yours. I figured a 4 to 5 year break even point for the diesel engine premium. Add the cost of a Suncoast TC etc. and that breakeven point goes beyond doubling.

As to resale value - I don't know about you but mine was $29k, and that was after the friends and family discount etc. According to KBB, it's depreciated at least $10k. If anybody could look into it's service history, it would be worth even less.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:06 pm 
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As to the rare vs. not so rare....

One way to look at it is kind of like a poll...

Now presidential election polls sample in the neighborhood of 600 to 1000 folks to get a feel for the voting whims of the entire nation of likely voters (with an error that usually falls in the neighborhood of +/- 3%.) Of course these polls are scientific and all (perhaps a little special sauce here and there on occasion).

Well this board may not be a scientific poll. But the size of the community here (and the community on other like boards) is large enough in proportion to all CRD owners to be of some probative value. I'd say after taking all the stories of the common problems posted here over the last couple of years as a representative sample - suggest that these problems are not likely to be as rare as some suggest. I've read too many stories over the last couple of years - on this board and others - to believe that.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:13 pm 
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I never thought of any vehicle I own as an investment for I don't use in a business. All vehicles lose value as soon as it goes off the lot. Except for my 1976 Coupe Deville, the value somehow reversed on it. Then again that's not guaranteed either.

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K&N, Samco Hoses, Michelin 245/70-16 LTX A/T2, Fumoto F-102, V-Force Muffler, Mopar, Hitch, Trailer Wiring, Skid Plates, Slush Mats, Rear Shelf, Predator Stage 1, Transgo, ORM & CodeReader, Facet 40109 Pump
"IT'S A DIESEL THING, YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND"
Certified Services Auto & Truck Repair


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:20 pm 
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BlackLibertyCRD wrote:
I never thought of any vehicle I own as an investment for I don't use in a business. All vehicles lose value as soon as it goes off the lot. Except for my 1976 Coupe Deville, the value somehow reversed on it. Then again that's not guaranteed either.


Good point...

If you want to talk about rare... Rare would be: being able to make a profit on an over 2 year old vehicle with 42k miles and a laundry list of known issues.

If that's your hope... Then all I've got to say is good luck...


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:46 pm 
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T^2 wrote:
My calculations pretty much match yours. I figured a 4 to 5 year break even point for the diesel engine premium. Add the cost of a Suncoast TC etc. and that breakeven point goes beyond doubling.

A purely optional upgrade. Not one most users would find the need for. But even then, its a diesel with a very good power plant, even if you doubled the break even its still only out into the range of your typical hybrid for break even points. But with much greater longevity.

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As to resale value - I don't know about you but mine was $29k, and that was after the friends and family discount etc. According to KBB, it's depreciated at least $10k. If anybody could look into it's service history, it would be worth even less.

I'm guessing you have a Limited because I don't know how you'd ever get a Sport that high. Regardless, KBB is not an accurate way to price the vehicle, either for personal or private sales. Insurance companies won't use it, dealers won't pay it, and it does not reflect local patterns. Perhaps your sale prices are depressed in MD, but out here this is one hot vehicle.

Check Ebay and Auto Trader for what the real sale prices are. In a lot of regions, it goes for around the original sticker, in some places even more(Pacific NW for instance). Regardless, even if it has lost value where you are at, it has not depreciated as quickly as the gas version, which is the real point here. That said, just list the silly thing on Craigslist in CA if you want to sell it and wait. Put the keyword 'Biodiesel' in the tag, and I guarantee you'll find someone willing to pay an inflated price and come pick it up.

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 Post subject: order of importance?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:05 pm 
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So just out of curiosity, of all these mods which are the most important, such as, towards fuel economy, safety, just the right thing to do, etc. etc.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:56 pm 
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Reflex wrote:
A purely optional upgrade. Not one most users would find the need for. But even then, its a diesel with a very good power plant, even if you doubled the break even its still only out into the range of your typical hybrid for break even points. But with much greater longevity...


Well, the only options are do nothing and hope for the best, get the F37 CSN (I refuse), or look to the aftermarket. The later may be the only viable option, assuming refusal of the CSN. Expensive no doubt, and a source for a sore spot....

Reflex wrote:
...I'm guessing you have a Limited because I don't know how you'd ever get a Sport that high. Regardless, KBB is not an accurate way to price the vehicle, either for personal or private sales. Insurance companies won't use it, dealers won't pay it, and it does not reflect local patterns. Perhaps your sale prices are depressed in MD, but out here this is one hot vehicle.

Check Ebay and Auto Trader for what the real sale prices are. In a lot of regions, it goes for around the original sticker, in some places even more(Pacific NW for instance). Regardless, even if it has lost value where you are at, it has not depreciated as quickly as the gas version, which is the real point here. That said, just list the silly thing on Craigslist in CA if you want to sell it and wait. Put the keyword 'Biodiesel' in the tag, and I guarantee you'll find someone willing to pay an inflated price and come pick it up.


Yes I have a limited. It has every option except the smokers group and that cargo organizer. Around here auto trader confirms that KBB isn't that far off the mark. Good points though. If you can get a premium on resale in your neck of the woods, well then obviously that's a good thing for you. Not likely to happen here.

Don't get me wrong. The diesel itself gives it a lot extra value to me personally. All things being right, this vehicle should last a long long time and may prove to be a good value - assuming that I can get the bugs out of it without loosing my shirt....


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