Wheeling with a manual trans

TheJawsOfDeath · **Joined:** Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:56 am **Posts:** 305

This goes for both the 5 and six speed manual trans KJ's. I've been driving stick on the street for as long as I've had a license, new to it for offroading though. Basically a two part question, first what are some tips/tricks/what not to do ever? I'm really good at going fast with a manual, and a noob at going really slow. Also, how do the 6 speed clutches hold up, and what are aftermarket options for a beefier unit?

tommudd · **Posted:** Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:58 pm

what I have seen over the years is people even with years of experience on the street tend to slip the clutch a whole lot more on the trail. They dont realize what they are doing until too late! They pay more attention to everything else than what the left foot is doing, trying to control speed with it. Just my observations

2006 KJ · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:10 am

with low range and 1st gear with my 6 speed i can crawl over almost everything without my foot on the clutch... ( i can also get out of the jeep. and walk besides it very slowly on level ground in low range hahah.. that's good to make your friends think your nuts) sometimes it's hard deciding weather to use 1st or 2nd, you just have to feel for it. If your up against a large rock.. you might need to slip the clutch a little and really juice the gas to "pop" up onto it. That's about the most strenuous part for the clutch. Besides.. sometimes they need a layer shaved off! I found going though mud, or up a muddy hill that you need to clean out your tires for.. 2nd gear and low range is outstanding.

tommudd · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:19 am

My 79 Ford short bed, 4 speed, 351 modified, detroits/ etc was great for walking beside of, low gear in low range you could get out and let it crawl up over anything, course it had 38s and later 40s on it, coming up to a 3 foot rock it would hit it hesitate for a miilisecond or so :roll:

and just start crawling up over. Plus you could start it in gear so if it stalled you never had to use the clutch like newer ones, Oh for the good old days, sadly it was stolen in 82

2006 KJ · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:23 am

aww... stolen.. people make me sick.. actually.. when i engage 4-Lo it lets me start it with the clutch out, changes the gearing (makes it lower), raises the idle to about 1200rpm instead of 500, turns off the traction control.. and makes for one awesome offroading experience!..

TheJawsOfDeath · **Joined:** Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:56 am **Posts:** 305

2006 KJ wrote:

with low range and 1st gear with my 6 speed i can crawl over almost everything without my foot on the clutch... ( i can also get out of the jeep. and walk besides it very slowly on level ground in low range hahah.. that's good to make your friends think your nuts) sometimes it's hard deciding weather to use 1st or 2nd, you just have to feel for it. If your up against a large rock.. you might need to slip the clutch a little and really juice the gas to "pop" up onto it. That's about the most strenuous part for the clutch. Besides.. sometimes they need a layer shaved off! I found going though mud, or up a muddy hill that you need to clean out your tires for.. 2nd gear and low range is outstanding.

Good stuff, thanks. 3rd gear has a lot of balls in low range too. Maybe it's my stock tires (ordered grabber at2's, just waiting now) that suck, but it seems like even in low range my ESP (thought i turned it off...) just kills any sort of progress in wet mud. Like on a dirt road that gets really saturated with water and mucky. My Dakota with BFG AT's could haul booty in the same situation (no trac control of course) and I'm disturbed that I cant completely negate the ESP...or can I? I firmly believe that I can do a better job of driving my vehicle than the vehicle itself can do...thats why I have a manual in the first place, really.

moose · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:15 am

TheJawsOfDeath wrote:

This goes for both the 5 and six speed manual trans KJ's. I've been driving stick on the street for as long as I've had a license, new to it for offroading though. Basically a two part question, first what are some tips/tricks/what not to do ever? I'm really good at going fast with a manual, and a noob at going really slow. Also, how do the 6 speed clutches hold up, and what are aftermarket options for a beefier unit?

I've seen someone take a 10speed bike gear lever and cable and hook it to the gear shifter and under the hood to the throtle. makes it easier to gas it while going up a steep hill from a stop...

2006 KJ · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:45 am

a lot of people have complained about the TC hampering their driving.. but mine has been perfect. I've never noticed it controlling when it was off.. and it never kicks in at the wrong time. perhaps i just got lucky

hooperswish · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:17 am

Also, one of the absolute best features of our manuals, is that when in 4 lo, you do not need to depress the clutch in order to start. This is awesome if you accidently kill it and are teetering on something hairy. Keep your foot on the break, forget about the clutch, crank it up, and off you go
Oh, and also, we get a beefier "heavt duty" transfer case with the manuals. IMHO manuals kick butt over autos on the trails w/ our low gearing... .Auto owners swear that their rides are superior off road, but they do not have the full control like we have. Kinda like pe#is envy.

tommudd · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:41 am

Dont know about that of course its a long standing back and forth on which is better, I have down both in everything from a 48 Willys , to the Liberty with Fords, GMCs, etc thrown in and I like the autos better on rocks etc, mud I like manuals, maybe it was just what I had when I was doing it or something but....and I have NO p***s envy at all thats for Hummer owners :lol:

TheJawsOfDeath · **Joined:** Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:56 am **Posts:** 305

hooperswish wrote:

Also, one of the absolute best features of our manuals, is that when in 4 lo, you do not need to depress the clutch in order to start. This is awesome if you accidently kill it and are teetering on something hairy. Keep your foot on the break, forget about the clutch, crank it up, and off you go
Oh, and also, we get a beefier "heavt duty" transfer case with the manuals. IMHO manuals kick butt over autos on the trails w/ our low gearing... .Auto owners swear that their rides are superior off road, but they do not have the full control like we have. Kinda like pe#is envy.

Awesome. Is this the 231HD like th renegades have? I have no idea we got a better transfer case. I'm pretty sure the last time I was under my Jeep, the tag on the xfer case only said "NP 231 J". Where does it say that we have a heavier duty case?

detroit_doc · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:12 am

I've never wheeled a manual either. I'm buying a JK next year and I'm trying to decide between an auto and a manual. I love driving a manual, but many say auto's wheel better.

My biggest fear with the manual is that I've heard you can ruin a clutch by pushing it in while in mud or even deep dirty water. I guess the muck gets between the clutch disc and flywheel and when tears it all up. Anyone have any experience with that?

Gris · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:21 am

I never wheeled my wife's 6-spd KJ, but my 5-spd is fun. I'm fine on the road, but tend to stall a bunch off-road. More as a knee-jerk reaction than anything else.

Here's my advice...

1) Chrysler engineered a bit of a "idiot feature" into 4-lo. If you let go of all 3 pedals in 1st gear, 4-lo, it's damned near impossible to stall out unless you are trying to climb a decent size rock. Just letting the libby go all by itself will let you crawl along at about 1mph. If you give it slight gas it will pop over the rocks I mentioned. I tend to freak out and ride the clutch a bit, then let it go to fast, causing a stall.

2) Unless you are going through a rock field or up/down big hills, keep it in 3rd gear, 1st and 2nd are way to low for just driving through trails and mud.

itsajeepthing · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:20 am

a big no no would be to press the clutch when in deep mud or water. the clutch has a tendency to "slurp up" whatever your happen to be in. Needless to say things get unhappy pretty quick if your clutch has inhaled a bunch of water and mud. pick your gear before you go in deep.

my first time out wheeling, I think I took a few yrs of life out of the clutch (feathered it for every obstacle, didn't know any better). best advice is just dont use the clutch unless changing gears. control with the brake. in first low you can just about stop without stallin out. if you do stall, just fire 'er up again

wendell · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:10 pm

The secert to wheeling with a manual is low gearing, lower the better, use low range along with decent axle gearing. You want to be able to idle over obsticles or burp the throttle, what you don't want to do is have to ride the clutch. I like center force clutches for the holding power and torque multiplier abilities.

jason thompson · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:12 pm

Well this is what I know
99% of the guys with 5 or 6 speed trannys run a "thumb throtle" wich should be an easy mod on a KJ
and they then drive with 1 foot on cluch and 1 on break and 1 hand on the wheel the other on the stick
they have no issues that I know of ,I had this set up for about 3 months and 4 trail rides ,none of wich were in rocks
on my onld ford ranger and it works great

I now run an auto and it is eleventybillion times better than any stick
I can stop and go at any speed I have NEVER had a "wheel hoppin" situation like guys with sticks get
I have run it at some very extreme angles and no issues I can put it in 1 and it stays there for crawling
I can put it in 2 for steep mudy hills and it starts and stops in 2
I have never had over heat issues either
this is not the case for the 4 speed in the KJ I know but I run a 3 speed ,tf999 in the TJ

Now I keep seeeing the HD231 I have never heard of such a thing
to my knowlage a 231 is a 231 the only diff. is the in put and out put shafts but in side they are the same
You can get a HD out put shaft for a TJ and just get a new rear D/S for a KJ but it is still a 231

I also know that the nOObs that come out and try to run with us on the 3's and 4's at places like Gilmer
end up bouncing all over the trail cause they are raming and banging do to improper gearing
with a stick shift
There is NO give for bigger tires with a stick so you end up knocking and banging cause you can not go slow enough
even with 4lo it is going to fast and with no way to gas ,break and cluch at the same tome you need to pick
use cluch and break and you stall use gas and break and you bang ,gas and cluch and it's "YA'LL BETTA MOVE"
while the wheels get air born

Top all that off with the fact that the "big boys" all run autos and I say
auto is the way to go

itsajeepthing · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:20 pm

jason thompson wrote:

... eleventybillion times better than any stick

LMAO

hooperswish · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:34 pm

TheJawsOfDeath wrote:

hooperswish wrote:

Also, one of the absolute best features of our manuals, is that when in 4 lo, you do not need to depress the clutch in order to start. This is awesome if you accidently kill it and are teetering on something hairy. Keep your foot on the break, forget about the clutch, crank it up, and off you go
Oh, and also, we get a beefier "heavt duty" transfer case with the manuals. IMHO manuals kick butt over autos on the trails w/ our low gearing... .Auto owners swear that their rides are superior off road, but they do not have the full control like we have. Kinda like pe#is envy.

Awesome. Is this the 231HD like th renegades have? I have no idea we got a better transfer case. I'm pretty sure the last time I was under my Jeep, the tag on the xfer case only said "NP 231 J". Where does it say that we have a heavier duty case?

No, you have the nv241 heavy duty transfer case. Crawl under your rig and check it out on the tag. It holds 4.2 pints of fluid, which is quite a bit more than the other diffs-which has gotta be a good thing.

2006 KJ · **Posted:** Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:57 pm

I enjoy having the most control i can get over my vehicle.. which is why i like the manual. It's also more exciting to drive over obstacles and though mud.. theres nothing like strongly accelerating then grabbing the next gear and hearing the exhaust ignite with a loud roar when the next gear is engaged and your foots back into it. In my opinion it's more like Driving over the terrain your on rather than Riding over it

TheJawsOfDeath · **Joined:** Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:56 am **Posts:** 305

hooperswish wrote:

No, you have the nv241 heavy duty transfer case. Crawl under your rig and check it out on the tag. It holds 4.2 pints of fluid, which is quite a bit more than the other diffs-which has gotta be a good thing.

I just did, and I do have that case. Awesome :twisted:

Anyone know "what % stronger" it is than a 231? I realize thats pretty arbitrary but I like to know these things.

Wheeling with a manual trans

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