Aftermarket CRD TC/Tranny/TCM Info

AZScout · **Posted:** Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:51 pm

Thanks Pablo....

I see now what you mean.

LocoCRD · **Posted:** Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:20 pm

Has anyone had an aftermarket convertor installed that was not a Suncoast convertor?

CATCRD · **Posted:** Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:24 pm

There was one person on jeepforums who had an ATS one installed, but it was a prototype that I don't believe made it to production.

BankNote4X4 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:43 pm

After the TC conversion with Transgo kit, new DC pump and cover, and new filters I've put about 8,000 miles on it, 4000 on vacation in Wyoming and Montana. I think I had the Fluid level a little too low but finally topped it off about 500 miles ago. It was great then seemed to have to relearn shifting points, and seemed to not be doing so very quickly. Now it seems very settled in. I think the fuel supply was causing some of the issues and the inconsitancy that led to the Jeep not learning how to shift. I've only blocked some heat sink into the fuel filter but its given a little help and kept the fuel flow consitant(for the 2 hours today anyway). With consistant fuel flow the tranny seemed very nice, like you'd expect from a new vehicle. Smooth smart shifts. I hope this is how it runs for 300K. Will keep you posted.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

BankNote, what kind of MPG are you getting?

gmctd · **Posted:** Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:37 pm

The down-under guy mentioned that the recently new F37 t\c began slipping AFTER the ECM reflash - the oem t\c is not handling the upgraded power output, with it's greater potential for increased heat, and the t\c slip is adding therms to that - new aftermarket t\c and an auxiliary cooler should cure the problem - get the Derale fan\over cooler setup, or take a look at it and fab your own - I prefer the B&M plate-style cooler - much more cooling in a smaller package, and is made in canada by the huge oem that makes most of the industry's radiators and coolers - try it, you'll like it...............

AZScout · **Posted:** Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:00 pm

Do you have a link to these type of coolers?

gmctd · **Posted:** Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:16 pm

Search for DeRale, and B&M is world-famous - or try Summitracingdotcom for sizing, pics, and discounted pricing

gmctd · **Posted:** Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:23 pm

Vis-a-vis the transmission, that clunk or bump you feel at start-off is Chryslers typical torque convertor problem - to prevent excessive heat build-up when the vehicle is stopped and the trans is in any selected gear range, the t\c is not charged at idle, which causes a slight delay between pedal and go as the pump fills the t\c with fluid and the vehicle begins moving - that's the 'bump' you feel - some are worse than others

This is (im)perfectly normal - most any shift kit (I prefer Transgo) will cure this problem and most of the slush-shifting - the slush-shift is mechanical, not electrical: the orifices and springs in the valve-body control the duration, or 'ooze into', of each shift - the ECM shares control of the interval between shifts, the TCM controls the event: 1-2-3-4-5 - you'll need an aftermarket torque convertor (you know the one) to cure the rest of the slush-itis

LocoCRD · **Posted:** Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:24 pm

My suncoast TC and snake oil, oops I mean shift kit are on the way. Will post back when I get them put in.

bentrod · **Posted:** Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:14 pm

gmctd wrote:

The down-under guy mentioned that the recently new F37 t\c began slipping AFTER the ECM reflash - the oem t\c is not handling the upgraded power output, with it's greater potential for increased heat, and the t\c slip is adding therms to that - new aftermarket t\c and an auxiliary cooler should cure the problem - get the Derale fan\over cooler setup, or take a look at it and fab your own - I prefer the B&M plate-style cooler - much more cooling in a smaller package, and is made in canada by the huge oem that makes most of the industry's radiators and coolers - try it, you'll like it...............

Any chance you could post a photo of this setup?
Thanks!

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:28 pm

None, but check'em out here:

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch ... wordSearch

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch ... wordSearch

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:16 pm

Just got my SunCoast TC installed today along with the Transgo Shift Kit.

Initial reactions are a very crisp and tight shift. Very nice modification to the overall transmission package.
Will post more as the TCM adapts to the new TC.

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:34 pm

Cool - countin' the hours, here - did you by any chance get the p\n of the pump input seal - ours has only 4months on the new F37 pump and t\c, but I wouldn't trust that seal to seal, knowwhuttimean?

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:41 pm

gmctd wrote:

Cool - countin' the hours, here - did you by any chance get the p\n of the pump input seal - ours has only 4months on the new F37 pump and t\c, but I wouldn't trust that seal to seal, knowwhuttimean?

Did you get Sir Sam's link to download the manual? All those part numbers are there.

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:09 pm

Yep - got that stuff, but all I see is OTC p\n's for the required tools - you found component part numbers?

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:43 pm

I was looking for some parts on several pages. If you have the resolution too high you might not be seeing them. The are generally to the right side of the page on a list that corresponds to the numbers in the drawings.

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:52 pm

That's a possibilty - I'll look again - perhaps a hint would help, page and section

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:20 am

Well, the goodies are in - I dropped the trans\xfer case assembly complete with cross-member attached - easier to do, easier to balance on the trans-jack, and the attached x-member allowed positioning with the knees while the hands were otherwise occupied

The Suncoast torque convertor is much tighter than the DCX version -
DCX impeller\turbine vanes are just a RCH off exactly vertical to the axis of the t\c - no cupping, loose
Suncoast version is way more aggressive, with a pronounced cupping arc from center to circumference - it got hookup, folks.

The Transgo shift kit went smoothly - left out the pressure-boost resistor for later switchable installation, when time permits observance with scantool
(Thanks for the DRB reference pressure, DZL_LOU)

Check the pics for reference -

Note the radial dimples in the t\c cover, which locate the turbine and impeller vanes - any curvature from the center outward depicts vane angles, or cupping - the cover is the impeller - inside, turbine vane angles match impeller vane angles
- reverse curvature = little hookup, hi stall, for small displacement engines
- straight, little curvature, as shown = better hookup, lower stall, but slips badly as power increases
- deeply arced curvature = very aggressive, lo stall, very efficient hydraulic hookup

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... 007#255007

- the rusty bit is the DCX oem F37 'upgrade' with stamped steel TCC clutch housing , straight impeller vanes, and plastic stator - there are two large chunks of steel counter-weight spot-welded onto the housing circumference for balance - Jeep passes this off as a torque convertor.

- the painted version is the Suncoast 2.8L CRD offering, with cnc-machined billet steel clutch housing for positive TCC apply, aggressive impeller vane angles for excellent low-rpm hydraulic hookup, and cnc-machined aluminum stator for reliable off-the-line 2.4:1 torque multiplication - oven-brazed fins for increased rigidity - a manly-man's Diesel torque convertor.

Also shown is the oem Torque Convertor Clutch - the last pic is the clutch plate area of the drive cover, showing the burned areas where the disk was not applied full circle - this was likely caused by warpage of the stamped steel cover - the disk has been applied with only partial contact - this would cause slippage and shudder, eventually burning the friction material and depositing it in the fluid, with eventual transmission loss

That pic alone speaks volumes for a replacement billet torque convertor like the Sun Coast version

The next-to-last pic is of an aluminum stator - but you got a plastic version of that in your oem DCX convertor, similar to the custom-finished version in the last pic - Sun Coast cnc-machined a new aluminum stator for the CRD 545RFE trans.
Note also the oven-brazed turbine-fins in the next-to-last pic - no girly-man convertor, there, folks.

Also shown is the redesigned pump cover plate with relocated front seal for the F37 pump upgrade.

Original pump - 05073004AD
Original cover\seals - 04799609, 04617919, 04799003
Upgraded pump - 68009879AA
Cover\seal - 68009859AA
O'ring - 04799003AB

Reason for the F37 pump replacement is -
http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0005se4.jpg

- trans has a removeable round stamped steel cover at the front of the case, covering and protecting the pump - cover outer diameter is sealed to a machined surface in the case, inner diameter fits over and is sealed to a machined collar or hub on the all-aluminum pump front cover

- the front oil seal for the t\c is installed in the collar on the original pump - in-chassis replacement is difficult, aluminum collar is easily damaged
- aluminum expansion\contraction properties are vastly different than steel
- final assembly has three seals - outer, inner, t\c

- replacement front pump is machined to eliminate the collar for the inner and t\c seals, is supplied with new replacement front cover and t\c seal

- front seal is now in the steel cover, easily removed for in-chassis service and replacement, not easily damaged by fumble-fingered techs
- final assembly has two seals in steel - outer and t\c

- definite improvement from any standpoint

And, one final thing -
- the oem t\c has an orange silicone o-ring in a groove on the driving hub for internal pump sealing
- the o-ring on our MAR07 F37 t\c and pump upgrade is scuffed and brownish and rough on the outer surface, where it would contact the inside bore of the pump
- got to realize, here, that the installation was done in March, but no way would that seal properly
- it almost appears as tho the pump and t\c was assembled dry, where the o-ring was damaged in the first few seconds of dry operation at 800 cold-idle rpm.

It is likely that any resultant problems from F37 t\c-pump upgrades are due to the same scenario - dry assembly with no pre-lubrication
This would certainly enhance shudder and poor shifting

This is not the currently shipped Suncoast Jeep t\c -
http://www.suncoastconverters.com/Jeep/ ... ducts.html
Also -
http://www.transmissionsone.com/45rfe_p ... om_pat.htm
Also also -
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/gene ... index.html

FYI, and SERENDIPITY - For those who would like to upgrade their KJ torque convertor, try the '07^ 5.7L Hemi version
4736587AC - it is low stall making it much more aggressive than the KJ version, plugs rite in, has all the upgrades,
available across the counter and on eBay - seen 'em recently for $8.95 to $100 Buy It Now, usually ~$50 S&H - it
is the identical unit Suncoast upgrades for the Hemi's and our KJ's with the 'billet' impeller drive housing

NOTE: - all 545RFE T\C's were upgraded ~NOV05 to prevent internal disintegration - the upgrade included the Hemi version, making it reliable for street use in the KJ CRD

_______________________________________

crdjon · **Posted:** Tue May 12, 2009 6:45 am

I have the HEMI TC on order and should arrive in the next week or so, part number PN04736587AC from the 5.7l hemi 07 (revised and upgraded). Several Dealership service department guys have suggested that after the install that a "Quick Learn" be performed on your Liberty/Cherokee, and will also need to ask to have a (Torque Convertor Break-in).

I wonder if some of the Suncoast and other TC installs are missing out on this and perhaps this might be a reason some are not enjoying the benefits as quickly as they otherwise might be.

I had not heard of the Converter break in procedure before?

UPDATE: HEMI TC done. Tis Better.....
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25447&p=547899#p547899

Aftermarket CRD TC/Tranny/TCM Info

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