SEGR/ORM Kit Builder's Thread

LocoCRD · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:53 pm

dgeist wrote:

greiswig wrote:

LocoCRD wrote:

Well, the EGR never gets put back in the loop. When in park the PCM is given back control of the FCV so it can close to aid in a smooth shutdown.

That's the level of detail I was after. So a blocking plate on the EGR circuit is probably not necessary to prevent things from getting clogged up, assuming the FCV is working properly to begin with and stays shut.

Right, they both are actuated normally on start-up and until you put the tranny into gear, then as loco said, the EGR and FCV are closed and opened wide, respectively. There's also a handy little bypass plug which, aside from the splices, puts the whole thing electrically identical to stock for inspections, etc.

Loco, I must have missed something in the control logic if the EGR isn't powered AFTER putting the transmission back in park.... I didn't think the board was aware of previous state (simply "normal" or "bypass" depending on the P/N trigger wire). You sure about that one? (Tim, confirmation?)

Dan

Dan, Unless you've got something else wired up there is no way the EGR gets powered up ever, unless you disconnect the SEGR/ORM and replace it with a bypass jumper connector.

Check out the wiring diagrams again and you'll see that although the EGR solinoid wire comes out to the connector to the ORM It connects to nothing. It was only brought out in the connector incase someone wanted to use a bypass plug in place of the ORM.

greiswig · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:08 pm

LocoCRD wrote:

Couple more tips for the ORM build.

First, the enclosure should be mounted to a metal contact point, capable of removing the heat that the power resistor can produce. If not the temperatures could approach the design limits of standard electronic parts, some of which are 40*C or 104*F. Turbo Tim has mounted his ORM under his hood and temps have I'm sure far exceeded recomend limits so again this is just a recomendation for longevity.

Has anyone just drilled some through-holes into the housing with grommets for wires, and mounted the power resistor externally so its heat sink can work a bit better?

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:38 pm

Ok, to clear up some confusion here (dgeist pay attention): With the ORM circuit installed and hooked up, the EGR NEVER opens! It stays in the full shut position. No more crap put back into the intake manifold. The ONLY time, and ONLY time it can or will open again is if the ORM circuit is taken out (unplugged) and the jumper plug put in to return the whole system back to stock (or normal) for use back out on the highway.

With the ORM circuit installed, the FCV or AFC (Air Flow Control valve) ONLY works in park or neutral. It is only active in these two positions for shut-down reasons (anti shudder). In drive & reverse, it is OFF. Again, it is put back into full operation ONLY when the ORM circuit is unplugged and the jumper put back in for use on the street.

The MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor is always on and working. The only thing here is that the "True" MAF signal only gets to the CPU ONLY when the ORM circuit is unplugged and the jumper plug put in to return the whole system back to normal for use on the street.

I hope that clears up any confusion. Any questions, let me know.

As far as mounting the 10 Ohm power resistor outside the box, I wouldn't as now you are leaving a greater chance open to hurt something (like the CPU) if that wire gets damaged, shorted to something else, cut, etc.. This is why everything is mounted in an aluminum box with an aluminum mounting plate which is a plenty big enough heat sink to dissipate all the heat generated by that resistor. My whole unit is mounted in the engine compartment, by the turbo, and went through a whole 118* degree Phoenix summer with "0" (zero) problems. Works just fine. Just do it. You will be happy.

dgeist · **Posted:** Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:19 pm

Turbo Tim wrote:

Ok, to clear up some confusion here (dgeist pay attention): With the ORM circuit installed and hooked up, the EGR NEVER opens! It stays in the full shut position. No more crap put back into the intake manifold. The ONLY time, and ONLY time it can or will open again is if the ORM circuit is taken out (unplugged) and the jumper plug put in to return the whole system back to stock (or normal) for use back out on the highway.

yes... shame... I went back and traced it and sure enough, when faced with overwhelming proof of the obvious, misconceptions are easily dissuaded. My bad, guys.

greiswig · **Posted:** Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:07 pm

First off, thanks again to the folks who researched this and put it all together. I hope you're making a reasonable profit from sales, because you earned it.

I've seen the color drawing at ormwiringbs8.gif, and I've visited Tim's web site and seen the photos. Color me dense, but it still isn't exactly crystal clear to me what harnesses need to be tapped and where. I can figure out the color codes from that drawing provided that all those color coded wires are indeed unique (not repeated in a different harness). Is that the case here?

From what I can see, there are two harnesses to splice into, one on either side of the engine bay. For those of you who decided to mount your bypass unit near the kick panel inside, did you find a different place to tap those same wires that is under the dash?

Thanks for the help, and thanks again for all the collective brain power here.

LocoCRD · **Posted:** Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:25 pm

greiswig wrote:

First off, thanks again to the folks who researched this and put it all together. I hope you're making a reasonable profit from sales, because you earned it.

I've seen the color drawing at ormwiringbs8.gif, and I've visited Tim's web site and seen the photos. Color me dense, but it still isn't exactly crystal clear to me what harnesses need to be tapped and where. I can figure out the color codes from that drawing provided that all those color coded wires are indeed unique (not repeated in a different harness). Is that the case here?

From what I can see, there are two harnesses to splice into, one on either side of the engine bay. For those of you who decided to mount your bypass unit near the kick panel inside, did you find a different place to tap those same wires that is under the dash?

Thanks for the help, and thanks again for all the collective brain power here.

Well really not much profit to be had. I paid my 2 boys to help me get the kits together so I guess they got some movie money out of the deal.

Anyway, lets see if I can clear up a little confusion...The C1 and C2 connectors and related connections(C1-68,C1-85,C1-90,C2-1,C2-2) Are found on the connectors going to the ECM which is on the drivers side. Here is the connector pinout for C1 and C2

http://picasaweb.google.com/Turbo4tim/Ckt/photo#5072421020036395106

The T connector and connection T-41 is located on the TCM connector which is found on the passengers side. Here is the TCM connector pinout.

http://picasaweb.google.com/Turbo4tim/Ckt/photo#5072421024331362418

I mounted my SEGR behind the kick panel and ran the wires out the firewall right in front of where I mounted it. The is a knockout with harnesses already runing through it there so I poked a small hole and pushed mine through too. I gooped some RTV around where I penetrated the knockout rubber. Hope this helps.

tim wulf · **Posted:** Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:15 pm

Yahoo!

It works!

This is worth it guy's. The power and drivability are even better then ORM. I didn't think I could do all that tiny soldering but I really didn't have a problem.

I bought a pencil type Wellar brand 25 watt soldering iron from Lowes for $14.00.
I went to Radio Shack and found some Silver-bearing rosin core solder 62/36/2 .015"dia. $4.00 this is very fine dia. and I thought it would be to small but it did a great job. part# 64-035 but 64-013 will work also.
I bought the wiring at O Rielly's auto parts yellow,blue,white-18 ga. Black & Red-16 ga. about $4.00 a piece.

Greswig,

The colors that Tim has on his wiring diagram are the colors of the wire that you provide from the splice to the kit. (you could come up with your own colors or numbering system if you like, I had to buy the wire anyway so for the sake of conformity I followed Tim's color scheme) The actual colors of the wires on the jeep's wiring harness are different and somewhat hard to describe so that is why they were not mentioned.

The ECM C1&C2 connectors are attach to the silver colored box mounted on the drivers side fender well. C1 is above C2 and should be removed first. there is some slack in the cables after you disconnect them to pull up to an area where you can work on them but you'll also need to remove the front cover of the black plastic wireway that goes up behind the fuel filter. Unbolt the fuel filter and also remove the bracket that holds it as this free's up the harness and you can file down the sharp edges that are cutting into the wire bundle while you have it off.

If you look into the hole where the cable's were with a flashlight, at the bottom of the hole on the fire wall you'll see a 1/2" hole plug, this is where you can run your wires thru if you want to mount the kit in the inside of the car. This is what I did and it work out great. To remove the plug remove the left drivers side kick panel (where the hood release is) by simply pulling on it. To find the plug you'll need to pull back a small amount of the insullation curtain and it is a couple inches bellow the the main wire bundle. Mine was smeered with a little sealant tar. It is oblong shaped and pry's out easily with a screwdriver.

Back to the wiring harness, Remove the cover on C1 to get a better look at it so you can see which wire is attached to the pins that Tim refers to. On the first one you do you might want to count the pins from both ends just to make sure your counting them correctly. It's a little tricky because the last pin on the end (69?) is a bigger hole then the others and I had a tendency to not count it and it thru me off for a second. After the first splice it gets easier and you pick up a little confidence. The cover on C2 is a little harder to remove.

The TCM is located on the passengers side fender and the connector has a bolt holding it to the center of the silver box. use a 8mm socket to remove the cable. The vacuum assembly was it the way and I had to remove it to give me enough room to work in. There are two 8mm/phillips head screws holding it down. They are the two screws on the bottom of the bracket that can be seen if you look with a flashlight in the gap between the vacuum assembly and the air filter box.

The wire lenghts where about 6 feet long except for the one that goes over to theTCM and it was about 10 feet long.

To mount my box I put velcro on the cover of the metal box and stuck it up in the area very close to where the steering collum goes thru the fire wall. If you look up there with a flashlight you'll see what I mean there is a hugh empty space there.

Lot's of luck, it's worth it.

Tim Wulf

0311_DoC · **Posted:** Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:45 pm

LocoCRD wrote:

greiswig wrote:

First off, thanks again to the folks who researched this and put it all together. I hope you're making a reasonable profit from sales, because you earned it.

I've seen the color drawing at ormwiringbs8.gif, and I've visited Tim's web site and seen the photos. Color me dense, but it still isn't exactly crystal clear to me what harnesses need to be tapped and where. I can figure out the color codes from that drawing provided that all those color coded wires are indeed unique (not repeated in a different harness). Is that the case here?

From what I can see, there are two harnesses to splice into, one on either side of the engine bay. For those of you who decided to mount your bypass unit near the kick panel inside, did you find a different place to tap those same wires that is under the dash?

Thanks for the help, and thanks again for all the collective brain power here.

Well really not much profit to be had. I paid my 2 boys to help me get the kits together so I guess they got some movie money out of the deal.

Anyway, lets see if I can clear up a little confusion...The C1 and C2 connectors and related connections(C1-68,C1-85,C1-90,C2-1,C2-2) Are found on the connectors going to the ECM which is on the drivers side. Here is the connector pinout for C1 and C2

http://picasaweb.google.com/Turbo4tim/Ckt/photo#5072421020036395106

The T connector and connection T-41 is located on the TCM connector which is found on the passengers side. Here is the TCM connector pinout.

http://picasaweb.google.com/Turbo4tim/Ckt/photo#5072421024331362418

I mounted my SEGR behind the kick panel and ran the wires out the firewall right in front of where I mounted it. The is a knockout with harnesses already runing through it there so I poked a small hole and pushed mine through too. I gooped some RTV around where I penetrated the knockout rubber. Hope this helps.

Did you take pics of your install and mounting site?

LocoCRD · **Posted:** Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:49 pm

There are a few pics on this thread. Check them out and I'll see if I have any more.

0311_DoC · **Posted:** Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:12 pm

LocoCRD wrote:

There are a few pics on this thread. Check them out and I'll see if I have any more.

Ok, so you mounted your kit on the inside? and the pic I posted earlier was from Tim's install ( I think) and he put it in the engine compartment?

LocoCRD · **Posted:** Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:28 pm

0311_DoC wrote:

LocoCRD wrote:

There are a few pics on this thread. Check them out and I'll see if I have any more.

Ok, so you mounted your kit on the inside? and the pic I posted earlier was from Tim's install ( I think) and he put it in the engine compartment?

Yep, to each his own. I wanted mine to be in a cooler environment and a little more incognito, but it works where ever to decide to put it.

nescosmo · **Joined:** Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:17 pm **Posts:** 202

Thanks guys it worked I did it tonight and it was very involve. You have to be carefull with some of the wiring, for exemple. The wire that goes to the maf sensor is green with black trace, well there are about 3, to 4 green with black trace in the bundle, what I did was splice the wire with an small blade and go to the maf plug and put a thing wire to the female pin and check for continuity. I did this also for the egr wire and the power and ground. well it work. The job I did was so perfect that you could not see that I have SEGR. I install mine in the cab like Lococrd.

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:39 pm

Well, it's done and in!

I actually did all the soldering a few days ago, but waited until I had the materials and time to open the harnesses up. I had been driving around for a few days with the MIL on, as I had unplugged the MAF. Plugged that back in, and did all the wiring with Telephone Taps and Telephone Splice connectors. Those are the 3M silicone-filled squeeze clips that are designed for industrial permanent installs, so I'd say I've gone a bit over and above on protecting the job. Also on the TCM, I put the tap INSIDE the cover for the actual harness plug... So all you see is wires exiting like normal. The ONLY "odd" wire that sticks out in the entire engine is that one, as I had to run it inside the rubber weatherstripping to get it to the other side of the engine. Oh well, it's protected and maybe I'll move it someday. (probably not)

Tim's directions were great, they took a lot of the fear out of opening up a harness with 96 terminals in it, and potentially risking killing my car. The two power lead connections (power and gnd) were too big for the telephone taps, so I followed the Mopar directions for installing a remote starter: Push a dental pick through the center of the wire, and then thread the add-on wire into the hole. Wrap it around, and tape everything closed.

Kinda a weird way of tapping a wire, but if that's what they consider a "factory" job... Then I have a "factory" add-on now.

I did like Loco, and ran the wires through that rubber grommet into the interior, I'm probably going to stick the box onto the firewall so the extra surface area can bleed some of the heat, but it doesn't seem to be getting even really warm... Maybe it needs longer to operate to get hot? I don't know, but it won't be mounted anytime soon, I still need to fill the box with silicone to pot the circuit board. Also I have a longer trip scheduled for next weekend, so I could find out then.

I do suspect it is working tho, as once the car had run for a little while, the MIL went out on it's own. Yay! I also suspect I would have gotten another MIL thrown for the EGR, as I was sitting in it idling for about 30 minutes while working on my radio upgrades. I'm SURE it would have tried to use the EGR then, as my VW Jetta TDI was constantly trying to use the EGR at idle or low speeds.

Good kit, I'm really happy with it so far. Would there be any potential problems with heat if I filled the box with silicone or hot glue to protect the circuit board? My solder joints are all solid, as I've been building circuits for years, but its someone else's design, so I figure I should ask.

nescosmo · **Joined:** Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:17 pm **Posts:** 202

Loco when I finished with my soldering, I had alot of flux on the board so I look for some flux cleaner and I could not find any so I clean the board with a tooth brush and alcohol. It did clean up very well but now I do not know what to use for sealing the soldering. Radio Shack is not the same any more so count that out and there is no store of electronics in my area. Now what can I use to do the sealing of the board.

I build my progect different than yours I put the sucket with the four screw that is on the box from the inside and the screw outside so if something goes wrong I can disassamble the board and the sucket out of the box and do some repair, for exemple if one of the solder crack and give me false contact, so what can I use. also I use sucket for the ICs I am Happy........

tim wulf · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:15 am

I don't see why you would need to seal the board with silicon are anything else if your mounting the kit inside the cabin of the car.

LocoCRD · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:11 am

nescosmo wrote:

Loco when I finished with my soldering, I had alot of flux on the board so I look for some flux cleaner and I could not find any so I clean the board with a tooth brush and alcohol. It did clean up very well but now I do not know what to use for sealing the soldering. Radio Shack is not the same any more so count that out and there is no store of electronics in my area. Now what can I use to do the sealing of the board.

I build my progect different than yours I put the sucket with the four screw that is on the box from the inside and the screw outside so if something goes wrong I can disassamble the board and the sucket out of the box and do some repair, for exemple if one of the solder crack and give me false contact, so what can I use. also I use sucket for the ICs I am Happy........

Glad it worked for you. There is no one right way to build it up. I was just providing the basic components for everyone at a reasonable price. I went to an electronics supply house, similar to Fry's and bought some spray called Fine-L-Kote which is just some name brand for silicone conformal coating. I sprayed both sides of the completed board and it now has over 13k miles with no issues.

greiswig · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:21 pm

Hi, all,

Hoping someone can help me out. I may be misreading the instructions, but I'm not getting the results I should. I'll confess up front to being an electronics hack, and not in the good sense. I don't have a signal generator, so I've omitted those parts here:

"*First disconnect the 10 ohm resistor." Does this mean to have it disconnected for all subsequent tests? I assumed so.

*Test relay by using an Ohm meter between AFC Sensor (Pin 8 ) to CPU AFC (Pin 7). It should read open. Now ground TCM input (Pin 9) and Ohm meter reading should read 0 ohms. This test passed.

*Apply 12v to CPU EGR (Pin 4). Apply ground to CPU AFC (Pin 7). With 4 volts on “From MAF Sensor” Pin 1, you should see 4 volts on “To CPU MAF Input” Pin 2. So if I put a second, lower voltage source on Pin 1, that voltage should be also on Pin 2? This worked.

(Alt. Test, no signal gen.) With 12 volts on “From CPU EGR” Pin 4, the “TO CPU MAF” Pin 2, the voltage should be 4 volts. This did not work. I see 0v on Pin 2. I am supposed to have Pin 3 and Pin 4 at 12v, and Pin 6 grounded, with the 10 Ohm resistor out of the picture, right? But there's an incomplete sentence in the instructions: is it trying to say to also put Pin 2 at 12v?

Now ground the “CPU EGR Output” Pin 4. The “To CPU MAF” Pin 2 voltage should go from 4 volts to 2.45 volts. Again, this no worky. Same reason as above, I suspect...

*Place 12 volts on “From CPU EGR Output Pin 4. (Alt. test, no signal gen) With ground on “From CPU AFC output Pin 7, now place 12 volts on this pin. The voltage on “To CPU MAF Input, Pin 2, should go from 4 volts to 3 volts. This doesn't work either. I still get 0 volts on Pin 2.

I'd appreciate some help!

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:17 pm

Quote:

* Apply 12v to CPU EGR (Pin 4). Apply ground to CPU AFC (Pin 7). With 4 volts on “From MAF Sensor” Pin 1, you should see 4 volts on “To CPU MAF Input” Pin 2. So if I put a second, lower voltage source on Pin 1, that voltage should be also on Pin 2? This worked.

Understand for this circuit to work, it has to have power. +12 Volts has to be on pin 3, ground on pin 6 ALL THE TIME. Disconnect the 10 Ohm resistor for testing the circuit operation.
The inputs have to be "Set" as such: CPU EGR (Pin 4) has to have +12 Volts. CPU AFC (Pin 7) has to be grounded.
What ever voltage is placed on: From MAF Sensor (Pin 1), that same Voltage (or very close) will appear on: To CPU MAF Input. For testing we used 4 Volts as a reference input (on Pin 1) so you could see if each section was working by how much the Voltage decreased when activated on Pin 2. Place 4 Volts on Pin 1 for the checkout.

Quote:

* (Alt. Test, no signal gen.) With 12 volts on “From CPU EGR” Pin 4, the “TO CPU MAF” Pin 2, the voltage should be 4 volts. This did not work. I see 0v on Pin 2. I am supposed to have Pin 3 and Pin 4 at 12v, and Pin 6 grounded, with the 10 Ohm resistor out of the picture, right? But there's an incomplete sentence in the instructions: is it trying to say to also put Pin 2 at 12v?

Do the "Set" conditions above. The circuit has to have 12 Volts to work. If you had 0 Volts on Pin 2, it sounds like you didn't have the circuit powered up. If you did put +12 Volts on Pin 2 you will need a new U1, LM324. That is an output of the IC and it will burn up if power is applied to it.
With the "Set" conditions, you should see 4 volts on Pin 2. If not, something is wrong.

Quote:

* Now ground the “CPU EGR Output” Pin 4. The “To CPU MAF” Pin 2 voltage should go from 4 volts to 2.45 volts. Again, this no worky. Same reason as above, I suspect...

Probably.....

Quote:

* Place 12 volts on “From CPU EGR Output Pin 4. (Alt. test, no signal gen) With ground on “From CPU AFC output Pin 7, now place 12 volts on this pin. The voltage on “To CPU MAF Input, Pin 2, should go from 4 volts to 3 volts. This doesn't work either. I still get 0 volts on Pin 2.

Still sounds like you don't have 12 Volts to power up the circuit.
Try the above "Set" conditions and let us know.

greiswig · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:11 pm

Turbo Tim wrote:

Quote:

* (Alt. Test, no signal gen.) With 12 volts on “From CPU EGR” Pin 4, the “TO CPU MAF” Pin 2, the voltage should be 4 volts. This did not work. I see 0v on Pin 2. I am supposed to have Pin 3 and Pin 4 at 12v, and Pin 6 grounded, with the 10 Ohm resistor out of the picture, right? But there's an incomplete sentence in the instructions: is it trying to say to also put Pin 2 at 12v?

Do the "Set" conditions above. The circuit has to have 12 Volts to work. If you had 0 Volts on Pin 2, it sounds like you didn't have the circuit powered up. If you did put +12 Volts on Pin 2 you will need a new U1, LM324. That is an output of the IC and it will burn up if power is applied to it.
With the "Set" conditions, you should see 4 volts on Pin 2. If not, something is wrong.

Okay, I did NOT apply 12V to Pin 2 before...it's just that the instructions were a little vague on that.

With only the supply voltage applied, I read 12V on Pins 7, 9, and (obviously) 3. Pin 2 read .00 volts.
With supply voltage plus 12V on Pin 4, I see the same voltages on those same pins. Pin 2 reads .02 volts.

It sounds to me like I have one or more chips that got zapped? Good thing I socketed them. Also, any harm in grounding the case?

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:30 pm

Yup, sounds like U1, the LM324 got zapped.
If you don't have a voltage on Pin 1, it will go to 0 volts, and so should Pin 2.

It's Ok to ground the case. Mine is bolted to the firewall by the turbo. If it sparks when touching ground, you have a problem.

I'll be on vacation for a couple of weeks so your on your own until I get back. No more smoke.

SEGR/ORM Kit Builder's Thread

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