SEGR/ORM Kit Builder's Thread

greiswig · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:55 pm

Turbo Tim wrote:

I'll be on vacation for a couple of weeks so your on your own until I get back. No more smoke.

Hee hee! I hear ya. Working on tube amps, we go by the motto "Adjust for minimum smoke." IC's are just so much pickier!

Thanks, Tim.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:06 pm

Yea, it seems like he let the magic blue smoke out of his chips. Once the powerful magic has been released, the electronics don't really like to work anymore. Bummer.

nescosmo · **Joined:** Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:17 pm **Posts:** 202

TIM I did not check my board, I just power up and fire off. If the board is not ok Is the CRD be able to fire off?. If the CRD fire off that means that the board is working. If I unplug the board whoud the CRD fire off. Please let me know you or locoCRD.......

Thanks
Nescosmo......

LocoCRD · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:01 am

nescosmo wrote:

TIM I did not check my board, I just power up and fire off. If the board is not ok Is the CRD be able to fire off?. If the CRD fire off that means that the board is working. If I unplug the board whoud the CRD fire off. Please let me know you or locoCRD.......

Thanks
Nescosmo......

I would say that since you don't have a CEL that you are good to go. If you unplug the ORM you will get a CEL.

nescosmo · **Joined:** Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:17 pm **Posts:** 202

tim wulf wrote:

I don't see why you would need to seal the board with silicon are anything else if your mounting the kit inside the cabin of the car.

Thank you but never thought about it . My thinking was about corrotion in the solder points. If you seal corrotion will stiop. If Iam wrong then will do what you said...

Nescosmo......

tim wulf · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:43 am

I never knew that boards had to be sealed if they where keep indoors. I guess there is more exposure to the elements inside a car then there would be inside a house.

UFO · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:58 am

nescosmo wrote:

tim wulf wrote:

I don't see why you would need to seal the board with silicon are anything else if your mounting the kit inside the cabin of the car.

Thank you but never thought about it . My thinking was about corrotion in the solder points. If you seal corrotion will stiop. If Iam wrong then will do what you said...

Nescosmo......

If you use a rosin core solder you should clean the board off with isopropyl alcohol. The flux will corrode if left on there regardless if you seal it or not. I am using "no-clean" solder on all the PCBs I'm assembling, which is safe to leave on; the flux is not as good, but a good joint is still possible provided one is consistent and aware.

longview · **Joined:** Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:28 pm **Posts:** 88

I am confused on pin 5.
There doesnt seem to be a connection point for it on the circuit board, but the instruction say to connect pin 5 to the EGR valve Blue/Black wire.
Surely this connection cant be doing anything without a connection to the board ????

LocoCRD · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:01 pm

Longview, don't sweat it. It is the EGR solinoid wire and does not connect to anything. It is only there if you want to connect a jumper plug in place of the ORM. That way everything goes back to stock with the jumper.

longview · **Joined:** Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:28 pm **Posts:** 88

Gotcha!
Thanks for clarifying that.

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:19 am

Three types of flux-cored solder are commonly available -

resin, or rosin - odor is not unpleasant - originally made from pine sap and other stuff, it is non-corrosive and may be left as-is after soldering or coated over - may be cleaned with carbon-tetrachloride, tri-chlorethylene, lacquer thinner, MEK, Acetone, mineral spirits - have your annual cancer checkup

acid - odor is similar to radiator shop - contains hydrochloric acid, for cleaning and etching copper and brass - highly corrosive, will continue to etch the copper in high humidity, even after coating - must be water-cleaned and neutralized, coating is recommended

water-soluble - odor is similar to radiator shop - also contains hydrochloric acid, activates when heated, corrosive in high humidity even after coating - must be cleaned and neutralized - easy to clean when hot, right after soldering, or after re-heating with a hair-dryer, water rinsable - solidified flux must be scraped off when cool - must be water-cleaned and neutralized, coating is recommended

Note - never use acid-cored solder for electronic service at home......................

UFO · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:19 am

^^^ Just a slight clarification. Rosin is more benign than acid, however it is best to remove the flux as it is not entirely non-reactive, or at least some are not completely passive. No-clean is specifically designed to be left on. Do not use any water-soluble flux unless you intend to wash it off with water -- make sure to dry it off, and do not get any in the relay.

greiswig · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:26 pm

Well, I'm about ready to give up. I have replaced the LM324 with an NTE987 chip, without any results that correspond to Tim's test notes. I have replaced one of the two LM339 chips with NTE834...only one replaced because that's all our local electronics store has in stock. Nothing.

I may be a bit of a hack, but it's pretty hard to screw up on electronic component placement when you're crossing every component off the list as you place them onto a well-marked silkscreened PC board. I know Tim is out of reach...anyone else have any bright ideas?

LocoCRD · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:11 pm

George, check your PM box.

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:46 pm

Could be D2 is reversed, or C1 is reversed - either would prevent U1-14 from driving the comparator bank off zero = no workee

greiswig · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:58 pm

Thanks, guys. Okay, before I trouble anyone with pix, the diode with the end with the stripe is supposed to go to the square pad, right? Similarly, the side of the tantalum caps marked with a + goes to the square?

I'm going to feel really dumb if I reversed the diodes. (He says, as he is secretly suspecting that he has all three diodes carefully reversed)

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:26 pm

Correct - the banded end aligns with the silk-screened banded end, towards the square pad - take your ohmmeter and measure across the diode - should get continuity with the black lead on the band, red lead on the opposite end
Capacitor + goes to the silk-screened + , which is the square pad

We're looking for shorted diode, or reversed marking - same can happen with the capacitor

All resistance readings at D2, R11, R12, and C1 should agree with those at D3, R15, R16, and C2, as the output circuitry is identical

greiswig · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:33 pm

gmctd wrote:

Correct - the banded end aligns with the silk-screened banded end, towards the square pad - take your ohmmeter and measure across the diode - should get continuity with the black lead on the band, red lead on the opposite end
Capacitor + goes to the silk-screened + , which is the square pad

We're looking for shorted diode, or reversed marking - same can happen with the capacitor

All resistance readings at D2, R11, R12, and C1 should agree with those at D3, R15, R16, and C2, as the output circuitry is identical

Thanks for that. I don't measure continuity across ANY of the diodes in either direction. The lowest resistance across diodes was .8 megohm. Highest was 5 megohm. Guess I need to buy some diodes now.

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:46 pm

Not so hasty, there, pilgrim - does your DVM have the diode check range - usually gotta pic of a diode anna lil beep icon

greiswig · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:57 pm

gmctd wrote:

Not so hasty, there, pilgrim - does your DVM have the diode check range - usually gotta pic of a diode anna lil beep icon

Aye, that it does. It's a Fluke a friend gave me without instructions. Okay, using that range, black to band side beeps and gives me a reading of .58x VDC on each diode. Reverse the leads, and I get a null reading on two of them (".0L VDC") and 1.535 VDC on D1. Is D1 the problem, then?

This is turning into quite the electronics tutorial...I'm embarrassed, but I hope some other folks are gaining from the knowledge you are sharing with me.

SEGR/ORM Kit Builder's Thread

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