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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:11 pm 
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I dont think the run away thing would happen now, but give the jeep some more miles and loose rings and then it might become a problem. Cant stop engine oil from burning if it is leaking past the rings.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:00 pm 
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It would take some really loose rings to do that, but I have heard of it happening.

Supposedly the FCV closing at shut down is so the engine stops without compression stroke. Easier on the engine, but not necessary. It is a good way to stop a runaway.

This noise can't be normal, or at least shouldn't be. It may in fact be operating normally but the noise isn't normal. Why would it start at 25k miles? Dealer has one on order. I'll take it in, then we'll see how long it last with the ORM and EHM from the start.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:17 pm 
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Tinman wrote:
It would take some really loose rings to do that, but I have heard of it happening.

Supposedly the FCV closing at shut down is so the engine stops without compression stroke. Easier on the engine, but not necessary. It is a good way to stop a runaway.

This noise can't be normal, or at least shouldn't be. It may in fact be operating normally but the noise isn't normal. Why would it start at 25k miles? Dealer has one on order. I'll take it in, then we'll see how long it last with the ORM and EHM from the start.


A noise is normal. It's a normally open valve, which closes when you turn the key off. It makes a quiet hum or whine for a few seconds, then it should quit and the valve will click open. Mine has a louder buzz now, and no click, because it's open all the time.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:31 am 
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Just for the record, does anybody know: If you had really bad rings, and if the AFC or Flow Control Valve was stuck open, is it possible for the engine to "Run Away" on Mobil 1 Synthetic oil? I don't think synthetic oil burns. Not sure here. Just wondering.......


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:11 am 
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Turbo Tim wrote:
Just for the record, does anybody know: If you had really bad rings, and if the AFC or Flow Control Valve was stuck open, is it possible for the engine to "Run Away" on Mobil 1 Synthetic oil? I don't think synthetic oil burns. Not sure here. Just wondering.......


it burns, I think a diesel will run on it.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:05 pm 
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Diesel engine 'run-away', where the engine runs on other than the injected fuel, is seldom caused by worn rings -

A. Gassers (patooie!) develop ~26"HG vacuum on the intake stroke which can 'suck' crankcase vapors thru the worn rings, which you see as blue smoke
Engine oil burns blue, because combustion temperatures are too low for complete burn - Diesel fuel (a light oil) emits white smoke when combustion temp is too low for complete burn - Diesel fuel emits black smoke when mixtures are too rich for complete burn
Diesels do not develop vacuum on the intake stroke, so the vapors normally* have no path to the combustion chamber
Crankcase vapors result as heated oil vaporizes (avg turbo temp is ~650deg) and thrashed oil vaporizes (the rotating\reciprocating assembly, crank and rods, thrash the heated oil even at idle) - also from the normally slight combustion-pressure leakage thru the piston rings
Combustion leakage past the piston-rings is, guess what? Post-combustion gasses, or..........EGR. Ain't even gonna burn if recirculated thru the intake.

B. Rings worn or overheated to the point of excessive leakage are unable to maintain the pressures required to ignite Diesel fuel - the engine will be easy to crank but very difficult to lite-off, or 'hard-starting', because of the lowered cylinder pressure resulting from the badly-leaking piston-ring seal

C. Medium-duty and heavy-duty Diesel engines normally vented crankcase vapors thru a tube to the draft under the vehicle - crankcase vapors and blow-by had no path to the combustion chamber

D. *Light-duty Diesels became popular in the early '80's, and as such were required to meet emissions standards for passenger vehicles - crankcase vapors were plumbed to the intake manifold to be consumed with the injected fuel
Suddenly, Diesel crankcase vapors and blow-by (high-pressure leakage) had a direct path to the combustion chamber

Even at that, no sudden incidence of engine-runaway was evidenced as those early engines 'matured', or were severely overheated or abused - the only symptom was surging, where the engine was burning the excess vapors, as evidenced by blue smoke in the exhaust, and rpms increased slightly over demand as controlled by the injection pump

Stationary Diesel engines and vehicles in oil-field service can experience uncontrolled runaway, where killing the power to the injection pump does not shut the engine down - this occurs where an external source of gaseous fuel is available, as from pipeline or valve leakage, or intentional blow-down - propane, butane, natural gas, etc.

So - runaway is not a concern - surging can be a symptom of fuel source external to the injection pump - can also be symptomatic of EFI system problems - if killing IGN power does not kill the engine, pop the airbox cover off and stuff a large rag in the intake duct to the MAF - gotsta have air to sustain combustion...........right?

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Last edited by gmctd on Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:16 pm 
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that blongs in the FAQ section :)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:46 pm 
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There were a couple of Diesel mechanic types that had horror stories about diesel runaways - more related to turbo problems - where the engine pulled oil in from the turbo lines - not past the rings.

(I've no experience on this)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:05 pm 
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Could happen - crankcase oil has much more BTU content per unit volume than Diesel fuel, so takes much less of it to combust and run - however, that would be raw liquid, not easily combustible - even Diesel fuel requires a fine mist for ease of combustion at 1625deg - but first symptoms could be slight surging, tapering off as Boost dropped (less air\fuel ratio), worth investigating.

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'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:42 pm 
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I owned a very tired normally asperated 90 VW jetta that had bad rings from a overheat. I was on the interstate once and all of a sudden all H@#$% broke loose as it ran away:shock: The only way I could get it to stop was ride the brakes to a stop :cry: I was sure it was a gonner by the racket it was making. :roll: But like any good VW diesel it started right up and lived on till a S10 Blazer ran a stop sign and T boned my wife one morning. It was a $500 car from jersey that was already broken with a few dings and she loved that car :( She even filled her own tank from the dirty pump :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:48 pm 
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dgeist wrote:
that blongs in the FAQ section :)


EXCEPT for that (teasing us, I think) note on stuffing the rag into the intake tube.

a) I'd be running for cover and probably not be thinking fast enough to get through that many steps, let alone stand that close (!)

b) Wonder at the probability of that rag being ingested by the turbo. Of course, perhpas that would be Ok compared to losing the who engine?

Just a thought,

Mark

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:40 pm 
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Better the turbo than the engine, right?

But, no worries, mate - the MAF matrix will stop the rag - the rag will stop the runaway - your's and the engine's...........

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'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:53 pm 
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CO2 or halon is the painless way to go.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:01 pm 
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Ok guys I know the difference between how a diesel works and a gasser. My point is: Does synthetic oil burn i.e. as could be used as a fuel?...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:02 pm 
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The long answer is - yes.................

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Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:06 pm 
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It'll burn as fuel if it is mixed with diesel. I think 5% is about max. You run the risk of oddball deposits in the combustion chamber and injectors. So, yes it can be added to fuel, but not a good idea in anything but a junker.

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05 Limited CRD. Bought it new. 112k on the clock now.

GDE Eco-tune, rear differential drain plug (drilled and tapped the pumpkin), transmission pan drain plug, Fumoto oil valve, fuel filler neck restriction removed, front hitch, Hayden fan clutch, Sears P1 battery since 08, Mobil 1 5w40, 5 volt glow plugs, DIY timing belt at 109k


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:14 pm 
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The short answer is ashless TC-W3 synthetic oil, as made for 2-stroke motors - ya just use less of it for the same lubricity

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'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:45 pm 
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Speaking of run aways, I just read about a guy that improperly cleaned (white gas) and oiled (with who knows what) a K&N air filter on a Dodge Cummins. Put in the filter and fired it up and it ran away. Throw a couple rods thru the oil pan. Too bad, but that was his own stupidity.


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